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Thanks- Sorry to be away. Health and money problems. Here are couple 24ga FHs in break actions, a CBC with monoblocked 585 barrel in it, and a guys NEF he had a 585 barrel monoblocked in. The 585 barrels are perfect fit for 24ga and 585 Minie Bullets are a perfect for barrel and 24ga case fit. Another matter--- I know it seems like I'm begging for help when I ask guys on the net for help at times. . But I really am in a bind. That is truth, Our small income disappeared from our farms truck garden business as my my knees are shot and can't hardly walk, I can't do field work, etc. And the wife's lung condition got so bad she can't work, nearly invalid. We need extra money to try to keep our health fixed up and pay bunch of back bills and utilities. As well as needed to pay for traveling to doctors, treatments,drugs, etc. Could you all maybe get together with others on these forums and kinda take up a collection to help get me out of my troubles and debt. Like 10 or so bucks each put into my paypal account as gifts. And if you want to mail it, use email below to contact me to get you my mailing address. The Paypal email is je gunownerstv.com Best Regards- Ed PS-- I really need help. Not astronomical amounts, but a little from each guy/gal, fairly fast. We never made anything on the 12ga FH, etc, work and research. The little coming from sale of our groups buy of 585 brass, dies, barrels, etc, goes to pay to the places, where the money is owed, for getting them made..Ed
Last edited by hubel458; 09/01/15.
Ed Hubel
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Sorry to be away so long, health, getting old, and interruptions. Here is picture of a lightweight Barnes bullet in 24ga FH. Guys cut the back off of 750gr bullet off to get 500gr weight. Here is picture 58 cal Minie slug that's little long on the side for our 12ga sabot, with the front of the slug above the grooves swaged to fit in sabot. The swaged front third of the slug fits next to the internal ridge in sabot and the sabot doesn't bulge out.Just run front into a die and punch it back out. And some info about 12ga FH and other hopped up shotgun slug loads, You know we like to use the rifle, IE slower than shotgun, powders. We like to use IMR 4759 for some loads and RE17 for others where we have room for larger charges. Those two powders are ignited ok in large diameter cases like 12ga, 10ga, 16ga, etc, without needing BMG primers. But we have always been looking for easy to ignite powders of the RE17 type, when cold, that has a speed between IMR 4759 and the RE17. RE17 uses different process to put the deterrents in the powder to control speeds, which allows much easier ignition, compared to big majority of rifle powders with all the deterrent on the outside. There are some out there made by Nitrochemie Switzerland, who makes RE17, RE26, RE33, etc, for Alliant. It's the ' RELOAD SWISS' brand available for those in UK and Europe, They are called RS 40, about same speed as RE12, RS 50 & 52, same speed as RE15, RE60 & 62 same as RE17. Also one ' Vihta Vouri ' powder called TR140 available over there, that Nitrochemie made.. Many guys can't get IMR 4759 anymore, some can't get RE17. I'd like to get some of RS 40-50-52 powders or V V TR140 into the states, would really be great help for hairy slug load work. And guys in UK/EU now can load some real hairy slug loads even though not having IMR4759..Ed
Ed Hubel
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We got guys wildcatting our 585HE case, Here is picture of that 375 Warlord next to our 585 case he made it from. He is going to make couple later necked down to 416, and 458. There is another guy working on doing one necked down to 357 wildcat. Here is a picture of our poster Biebs on AR, 585 HE, in a MPI stock. He used a big Enfield action, with a fancy jeweled bolt. We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can even feed really long overall length loaded cases, like 4.5" long or more, if you are using long pointed bullets for real long range target and hunting work. One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is Stiller Cheytac actions made similar, just a newer version. Both actions come in 1.45" diameter and a 1.60" diameter receivers. And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work, decent prices, has these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He has, working with another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good working, single stack, center feed, magazine..He has one of our 585 HE reamers on hand, we have barrels....Ed
Ed Hubel
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Montana has a nice (ideal) size action and they offer a pretty fair price 505 gibbs. I wonder if they will get around to build a 585 for the same price. That would be a good deal, for a nice finished product. You have come up with some very reasonable price options to geta gun, but nothing really off the shelf. Some body like Montana is a known quantity as opposed to some custom builder across the country. Unknown to me.
It seems once the brass came through, this idea has taken off. Congrats on a fine new round.
The only down side, might be that guys (me) wanting an impressive looking round but closer to nitro express levels are working with a very large case. I always though 3" was about ideal. I guess there are some good fillers that allow 750 gr at 2000fps and still use the long case. Sounds silly, I know, but the looks matter and short case like 2.5 does not turn me on. A Montana offering (price same as 505) would be a turn on.
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No problem in slowing it down just use slower powder.
A case 90% full of RE25 and slower won't even expand the
brass, you can reload without sizing if you want.
I never use less than 90% full.
I Don't need fillers, and cases never wear out with slower
powders. IE; little extra powder is cheaper than cases,
I trying to get Montana make 585 barrels, maybe some time.
I like Montana PH also, I got first action sold years ago.
Our group has put 585HE in 5 Montana PHs. Takes while to get them.
Stiller is making more of Gibbs/Cheytac size actions than
anyone in the industry, and price is little less.
They mainly used Lawton design with few changes, and they
are making dozens of them every week.
I just found out this year there are many Cheytac
shooters out there using Lawton/Stillers, and that the
Cheytac cases are in such demand that they being brought
in by ship in cargo containers to fill orders.Ed
Last edited by hubel458; 10/28/15.
Ed Hubel
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The I guess the 64,000 $ question is what builder is going to take one of these less expensive Lawton/stiller actions and turn out a traditional looking wood stock 585 safari type rifle for the same cost as the 505 available from builders like Montana.
Anytime you go custom, it is time and money and all whole pile of unknowns and decisions. For a 505, I can just order a CZ or Montana and I know what I got and I can sell it later because everyone knows what these are.
I really like some of the examples you have posted. No objectionable muzzle brakes. Real guns you can shoot with a guide or friend as backup without hearing loss. Honest shooting.
I remember biebs, from AR. he was one of the class guys. I got banned for criticizing the rebated rim and muzzle brakes on the 600ok. I believe a belted 585 is the sweet spot for max power in sporting magazine rifles. And some all-be-it limited versatility and a good choice of bullets. The 585, just nails it. It can go staggered magazine for 3 down in cz, just like the 505.
Last edited by fourbore; 10/29/15.
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Yes I also think the 585 is the ultimate because it is really versatile and has a lot of bullet options. Lighter lead for deer and hogs, heavier jacketed and solids for DG, long pointed bullets for target and real long ranges.
As for Stiller and Lawtons they are larger versions of basic Remingtons and they do make them with wood and plastic hunting type stocks. I'm at the place in this wildcatting project and promoting the case, where all actions get talked about, so as to get the greatest number of 585 HEs built before I pass on/croak. That is why I mention them, the MRC PH, THe CZs, big Rugers,etc,and Enfields, and Ruger #1s for singleshot afficianados, and other single actions for guys liking them..Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here we kill two birds with one stone so to speak, Best case sizer is the MEC Collet Super Sizer and it can double as a case holder when we roll crimp. Much better hold than the ones made to hold cases for crimping, that cost a lot. Save cost of a holder, plus have best sizer around Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock. Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture. The scope rail is a piccatiny type. The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag. About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening is a huge job needing special jigs. Easier just use one being added on for a jig with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom. When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat. The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!! Just keep on building...Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb stock, handles recoil great.Neat looking work... Ed About our 2.17" 585 BB case for lever guns, pistols, AR Uppers, Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70. One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel, to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel. Or rolling block rifles and pistols...Gonna try one in 1887. Got first one in one of our guys Greener GP for testing. In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy. By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud.... Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site. Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields. On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom section of weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight. Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight like a compact UTG sight...Ed
Last edited by hubel458; 12/09/15.
Ed Hubel
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A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''.. That is neat term , and very glad that folks are catching the big bore fever. Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns. I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top. Here is another pic of our guys 24ga FH in the NEF On straight sided cases like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the bullet or slug, shortens case life. So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads, with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less work that has to be done in the press ... Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun case, holding a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with. This one with light slug supposed to do over 2000 fps. Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN. Known as, Rocky Mtn Rifles, video on Youtube of them testing our 585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vzQjRGfT1A Here is picture of Rossi SS with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it, chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, to do testing in a light rifle with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got plenty of cases Ed
Ed Hubel
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I feel that Bruce Bertram has done a huge amount for big bore shooting. We have heard that fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, is working with Bertram in making order of the full length 12ga From Hell cases. Drawn cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims. Any wanting some, and maybe get in on the run, contact Bertram at the email -- b.bertram1 bigpond.com ...... Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is picture of a great old time 8bore double. I like those old outside hammer, big bore guns. The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest, that we we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked in them like .585" bore for 585HE and 24ga FH.. One that is close that we have, is the Magtech. Well the guys have found one that is super strong lockup and looks real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel, soon be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH, the little brother of the 585HE. We told company if they did them with NEF style, rifled, heavy slug barrel, for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough. Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that Bret and Darrel in Minn set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job. It is in a Hogue, recoil reducing, rubber coated, Compstock.Great job they did.. Ed
Ed Hubel
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Here is folder shotgun, the guys set up as 24ga FH. Shoots nice, looks nice, it a more expensive break action, compared to many others. Here is another view of what we feel is a nearly perfect break action. Guy is making a strong 24ga FH with it. Here is picture of a 585HE MRC PH a guy set up.. Here is picture of our shorter 585 BB for leverguns, etc, with variety of bullets..Can get energy like regular elephant guns..Ed
Ed Hubel
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Hi Ed, Is Montana Rifle Company building these now? Or did some one buy an action and have a gun built around it?
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This rifle is actually mine. It is a barreled Montana action that I got from Hubel458. I ordered the stock from Montana pre-cut for the PH action. I had to open the barrel channel quite a bit but the wood stock looks good I think.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. Theodore Roosevelt
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Thanks, that does all seem to work
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Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH. Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old days for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in.. It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle mounted it on the bolt further bac, so the port could be lengthened for our long case. Needs polishing and blueing, scope rail added. Here is another picture of the PH 585HE with great looking stock. Nice looking wood. Ed
Last edited by hubel458; 05/11/16.
Ed Hubel
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There are guys on Castboolits forum experimenting with locking on plastic bases securely on 12ga slugs. Making their own front heavy ones for smoothbores. Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE. Here is another view of the great camo job on the 585HE Enfield, a top view. Ed
Ed Hubel
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About the local fellow here making 375 wildcat with our 585 case-
Hello Mr. Hubel,
We just got back on Saturday from competing at the King of 2 Miles Match in New Mexico.
We won! I came in first shooting my rifle (the one I brought over and showed you),
chambered in .375 Lethal Magnum, the round I designed based off of your case.
I’m attaching a bunch of pictures, feel free to post any of them that you want.
I do have one picture of the screen of the camera system looking at the 2500-yard target.
The hit farthest to the left and the hit farthest to the right were my 1st and 2nd shots.
I’m getting more interest in this cartridge now that the results
from this match are spreading across the web.
Happy 4th!
Take care,
Mitchell Fitzpatrick
Lethal Precision Arms
1(989)578-2576
--------------------------------------
Will have pics soon, his case is close to 375 Warlord case
with a shorter neck, and longer to shoulder.
Got guys getting 585HE cases, they all think we have
''the'' case to wildcat... Ed
Ed Hubel
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