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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
I'm basing it on common sense, son. You should get yourself some. Son? While uniformed and badged, I never shot anyone for punching me, or wrestling me to the ground, or stabbing me, or shooting at me That's my "sense". Son... The latter is a physical impossibility on your part. The guy in the video didn't punch, wrestle to the ground, stab or shoot at the cop. He just got slapped. What's a physical impossibility? Me being your son.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
A close friend got lit up by about a half dozen cops. I mean LIT UP. I bet he had 10+ holes in him in a few seconds. Both pistol and rifle.
They immediately started CPR and then the ambulance fellas took over. They worked on him for probably ten minutes.
Why? I dunno, most of his lungs and heart poured out onto the black top, but they did. Protocol...Something this deputy did not follow and we will never know if Jack had a chance to survive,thanks to Barney Fife.Crazier things have happened!
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
"... illiterated..... .
Google don't think it's a word, either.
I'm not being picky, since I can usually figure out what someone means, even if they use made-up words, but I can't in this instance.
No matter, carry on.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
Funny,
Fictional John Wayne character is debating whether he can be my son, and you are busting my spell checker.
Glad you guys are on the ball here.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,317
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,317 |
So,the deputies on scene had the obligation to proceed with life saving techniques until a qualified person could make the call..They did not do that as they did not put the bull out of commission to stop suffering...
I'd question that assumption... EMT personnel are not law enforcement officers, and if the local law sees or perceives a threat to others can withhold access to any injured until that threat is removed (in this case I'd say the bull). Still, no one knows what happened! Phil
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
one reason just anybody can't make that call including officers and EMT's.An MD or the coroner can not a sheriffs deputy. You sure about that? that is exactly the way it was for me. I remember a friend getting a welfare check in the middle of the winter call. Real cold out. He goes up looks in the window, and says their dead. Dispatcher aware of the rules regarding coroner, said are you sure? He radio's back and says, yeah i am sure, i am watching flies crawl in and out of their nose. Keep in mind scanners. The calls to the sheriff started immediately. What year was that? back in the late 70's.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Funny,
Fictional John Wayne character is debating whether he can be my son, and you are busting my spell checker.
Glad you guys are on the ball here. You think a lot of things are funny which few here share your enthusiasm for. I'm not a fictional John Wayne character anymore than Curdog is a talking canine. They're called "handles" son, and I'm not debating you, I'm informing you. I don't know what you think you're doing and I doubt you do either.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Don't be cute Ethan, you started that "son" crap...and it is extremely rude to use it on another grown man. Were the two of you standing in front of me when you did it and he started to kick you to death I would consider it to be your fault.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
When you shoot somebody you have the obligation to render aid if they are still alive. Whether the deputies allowed the EMT's access or they did it themselves, the obligation was still there. Certainly if you as a citizen shoot somebody, you have an obligation to render aid unless you can't due to the wounded person still being a threat. It sounds like Yantis was totally incapacitated yet they evidently neither attempted aid themselves, or tried to get paramedics to. Nor did they allow his family to aid him. That's what the story is thus far.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Don't be cute Ethan, you started that "son" crap...and it is extremely rude to use it on another grown man. Were the two of you standing in front of me when you did it and he started to kick you to death I would consider it to be your fault. RWE routinely doesn't act like a grown up and he's young enough to be my son. I didn't say it rudely nor was I being cute. You're an Australian subject and not a free man so your opinion has no meaning here. Thanks for sharing though.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,764 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,764 Likes: 1 |
When you shoot somebody you have the obligation to render aid if they are still alive. Whether the deputies allowed the EMT's access or they did it themselves, the obligation was still there. Certainly if you as a citizen shoot somebody, you have an obligation to render aid unless you can't due to the wounded person still being a threat. It sounds like Yantis was totally incapacitated yet they evidently neither attempted aid themselves, or tried to get paramedics to. Nor did they allow his family to aid him. That's what the story is thus far. I'm not sure I'd argue in favor of that.....
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Don't be cute Ethan, you started that "son" crap...and it is extremely rude to use it on another grown man. Were the two of you standing in front of me when you did it and he started to kick you to death I would consider it to be your fault. In all fairness though I should say that when RWE starts to kick me to death for calling him "son" I won't expect you to render aid.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,787
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,787 |
There are some semantics involved.......
Can I, here in NH, "declare" a subject deceased? No.
Can I look at a subject an say "George, that guy is clearly dead" and not render aid? Absolutely.
In the latter example, did I declare him dead? Sure, just not officially.
In the prior "lit up, lungs leaking on the pavement" example, I'd likely render aid if it was my shoot so as not to be hung "here" and in the Court of public opinion. If I roll up on it.......I'll play it as I see it in person.
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
When you shoot somebody you have the obligation to render aid if they are still alive. Whether the deputies allowed the EMT's access or they did it themselves, the obligation was still there. Certainly if you as a citizen shoot somebody, you have an obligation to render aid unless you can't due to the wounded person still being a threat. It sounds like Yantis was totally incapacitated yet they evidently neither attempted aid themselves, or tried to get paramedics to. Nor did they allow his family to aid him. That's what the story is thus far. I'm not sure I'd argue in favor of that..... I'm not arguing. It's a known fact. If some dude breaks into your house and is raping your wife and you shoot him, you are supposed to render aid if he's not dead. Of course, if you're busy aiding your wife or if he still poses a threat to you, were you to help him, no such obligation exists. Feel free to disbelieve me and seek other sources of wisdom on this though.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Don't be cute Ethan, you started that "son" crap...and it is extremely rude to use it on another grown man. Were the two of you standing in front of me when you did it and he started to kick you to death I would consider it to be your fault. In all fairness though I should say that when RWE starts to kick me to death for calling him "son" I won't expect you to render aid. Good, being a condescending prick hasn't made you completely oblivious.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,764 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,764 Likes: 1 |
Don't be cute Ethan, you started that "son" crap...and it is extremely rude to use it on another grown man. Were the two of you standing in front of me when you did it and he started to kick you to death I would consider it to be your fault. In all fairness though I should say that when RWE starts to kick me to death for calling him "son" I won't expect you to render aid. lol.... After some of your posts there may be several people willing to aid RWE in case his leg gets tired....
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
There are some semantics involved.......
Can I, here in NH, "declare" a subject deceased? No.
Can I look at a subject an say "George, that guy is clearly dead" and not render aid? Absolutely.
In the latter example, did I declare him dead? Sure, just not officially.
In the prior "lit up, lungs leaking on the pavement" example, I'd likely render aid if it was my shoot so as not to be hung "here" and in the Court of public opinion. If I roll up on it.......I'll play it as I see it in person. I can't speak for anybody else but I'm not arguing about rendering aid to a clearly dead man. There has been some discussion that he wasn't dead though and that's a different story. I'm not one of the ones arguing about "declared dead" vs. drt. It also comes into play when they had to have known that they had just shot a guy who posed no threat other than evidently his gun accidentally discharged when they manhandled him. Admittedly a lot of unknowns here but things ain't looking good for the boys in blue.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,764 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,764 Likes: 1 |
When you shoot somebody you have the obligation to render aid if they are still alive. Whether the deputies allowed the EMT's access or they did it themselves, the obligation was still there. Certainly if you as a citizen shoot somebody, you have an obligation to render aid unless you can't due to the wounded person still being a threat. It sounds like Yantis was totally incapacitated yet they evidently neither attempted aid themselves, or tried to get paramedics to. Nor did they allow his family to aid him. That's what the story is thus far. I'm not sure I'd argue in favor of that..... I'm not arguing. It's a known fact. If some dude breaks into your house and is raping your wife and you shoot him, you are supposed to render aid if he's not dead. Of course, if you're busy aiding your wife or if he still poses a threat to you, were you to help him, no such obligation exists. Feel free to disbelieve me and seek other sources of wisdom on this though. I said I'm not sure I'd argue in favor of that.... What a person in some cases is supposed to do and what I'd argue for them doing may be completely different.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
When you shoot somebody you have the obligation to render aid if they are still alive. Whether the deputies allowed the EMT's access or they did it themselves, the obligation was still there. Certainly if you as a citizen shoot somebody, you have an obligation to render aid unless you can't due to the wounded person still being a threat. It sounds like Yantis was totally incapacitated yet they evidently neither attempted aid themselves, or tried to get paramedics to. Nor did they allow his family to aid him. That's what the story is thus far. That's right..Each of the deputies were required to have a first aid card that included CPR certification!
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
Don't be cute Ethan, you started that "son" crap...and it is extremely rude to use it on another grown man. Were the two of you standing in front of me when you did it and he started to kick you to death I would consider it to be your fault. RWE routinely doesn't act like a grown up and he's young enough to be my son. I didn't say it rudely nor was I being cute. You're an Australian subject and not a free man so your opinion has no meaning here. Thanks for sharing though. I guess advocating due process, and informed decision making renders me not a grown up? Apparently I don't act like your idea of a cop, at least, when I used to be a cop. Probably don't act like your idea of a soldier, when I was in the military, and based on some of your blather, I don't act like your idea of a EMS person, when I did that as well. Maybe, just maybe, its your ideas that are [bleep] up like a soup sandwich, and not the way I act?
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