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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,558 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,558 Likes: 2 |
It means making the cost of actions such as the killings in Paris, MUCH greater than any benefit to a group like ISIS. Basically remove any incentive on the part of ISIS leaders or individual fighters, to try it here. I think its going to come to that
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,619 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 31,619 Likes: 5 |
"Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war. That this foul deed shall smell above the earth, with carrion men groaning for burial......."
Or my personal favorite
"Why if not in a moment look to see the blind and bloody soldier, with foul hands defile the locks of your shrill shreaking daughters, your fathers taken by their silvery beards and their most reverend heads dashed to the walls. YOUR NAKED INFANTS SPITTED UPON PIKES, while their mad mothers with their howls confused, do break the clouds as did the wives of Jewry to Herods bloody hunting slaughtermen......"
Thank your very much!
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
WS
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,528 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,528 Likes: 4 |
I'm all for as much collateral damage as possible.
It's only collateral when innocent people are killed, since there is no such thing as an innocent Muslim there can be no collateral damage. Kill them all!
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
--------------------------------------------------------- ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,432
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,432 |
I'm a bit non-plussesd when someone who has not served says "turn our military loose," because it means by definition sending someone else or someone else's sons and daughters into a fight they personally do not see the need to have skin in.
The argument, "Well, I'm paying for it" falls short as well, as I'm also paying for it, and going.
I prefer to say "We should kick their a$$es" and by we, I mean to include me personally. Which I'm up for.
But that's just how I am.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 19,026 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 19,026 Likes: 1 |
I'm a bit non-plussesd when someone who has not served says "turn our military loose," because it means by definition sending someone else or someone else's sons and daughters into a fight they personally do not see the need to have skin in.
The argument, "Well, I'm paying for it" falls short as well, as I'm also paying for it, and going.
I prefer to say "We should kick their a$$es" and by we, I mean to include me personally. Which I'm up for.
But that's just how I am. You are right about that, That's why all attacks should come for above.
Dave
�The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely to be the one who dropped it.� Lou Holtz
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,869 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,869 Likes: 5 |
They way I interpret "turn our military loose" has less to do with making the decision to send them into a fight than it does with eliminating ridiculous ROE and PC restrictions which hamper their efforts.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 14,958 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 14,958 Likes: 1 |
--- CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE --- A Magic Time To Be An Illegal In America---
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,222
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,222 |
Yep, here is an example of the short leash our military is currently operating under. U.S. Warplanes Strike ISIS Oil Trucks in Syria - New York Times According to an initial assessment, 116 trucks were destroyed in the attack, which took place near Deir al-Zour, an area in eastern Syria that is controlled by the Islamic State.
The airstrikes were carried out by four A-10 attack planes and two AC-130 gunships based in Turkey. Until Monday, the United States had refrained from striking the fleet used to transport oil, believed to include more than 1,000 tanker trucks, because of concerns about causing civilian casualties. As a result, the Islamic State’s distribution system for exporting oil had remained largely intact. To reduce the risk of harming civilians, two F-15 warplanes dropped leaflets about an hour before the attack warning drivers to abandon their vehicles, and strafing runs were conducted to reinforce the message.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence". John Adams
"A dishonest man can always be trusted to be dishonest". Captain Jack Sparrow
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,920 |
David,I am one of those and have given it a lot of thought.
After talking to my Son who is active with the Navy Spec.Ops ,he seems to have no problem with doing it again as long as the gloves come off and the military are allowed to do what they do best.
He does not want to build schools,water plants because it's not what he has trained for and has trained others to do.
He is my only Son.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,248 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,248 Likes: 1 |
For example, carpet-bombing the entire city of Raqqa, would be a good start.
Exactly. As you stated elsewhere, politicians and many people here don't want the blood on their hands. So we'll continue with the 'soft' target bombing ourselves and hope that a Starbucks on every corner in Raqqa will fix everything. You mean that France dropping 20 whole bombs on Raqqa (probably being careful not to hurt anyone), doesn't send a strong enough message that they are really mad now?????? I agree- carpet bombing would be a hell of a lot bigger deterrent then the current precision "don't hurt anyone" bombing.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Remember in Saving Private Ryan when they come across that machine gun position and the Captain explains they need to take it out?
And his men get pissed and state it's not part of their objective? And the Captain states "Our objective is to win the war."
That (to me) is "turning our military loose." Killing the enemy as you locate the enemy and allowing the commissioned and non-commissioned officers in the field to make tactical decisions as they arise.
Sure some bad/wrong decisions will be made and the wrong people may die and a church or three might get blown to schit. But as long as the overall strategy is being executed, the army/military continues to move forward.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,248 Likes: 1 |
Travis, haven't seen the movie in a long time. Is the scene you refer to where they showed some mercy to one of the Germans, who later killed one of them in return? If so, that might be a lesson as well.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Yes. They release one of the Nazis.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Remember in Saving Private Ryan when they come across that machine gun position and the Captain explains they need to take it out?
And his men get pissed and state it's not part of their objective? And the Captain states "Our objective is to win the war."
That (to me) is "turning our military loose." Killing the enemy as you locate the enemy and allowing the commissioned and non-commissioned officers in the field to make tactical decisions as they arise.
Sure some bad/wrong decisions will be made and the wrong people may die and a church or three might get blown to schit. But as long as the overall strategy is being executed, the army/military continues to move forward.
Travis ...Yup,...a PERFECT call out. 180* opposed,... we have the pilot of the Memphis Belle turning her around for a second pass, so's not to hit the orphanage /convent beside the evil Nazi ball bearing works. In synch with Private Ryan's Captain the copilot delivers one of the best lines in the entire flick,...." They're all just Nazis". reflecting on alla' this , Hollyweird, and those involved should be KEPT (forcibly, if so indicated) the hell away from "War" ,...unless they do some sorta' 180* turnabout. GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 454
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 454 |
I believe the current rules of engagement are that you have to be shot and killed before you return fire. That has to change.
Not far off, and I was there 10 years ago
1st Bn 5th Marines Wpns Co. 03-07 Semper Fidelis
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,867
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,867 |
Re: so what does it mean to you when someone says "turn our military loose" Let them fight the war like they were supposed to win. You ever saw a WW2 movie? They killed the enemy without regard for collateral damage. If they hit a Muslim town and destroyed it, there would not be ANY collateral damage.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,960
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,960 |
Put the frickin JAG lawyers in a box and ship them home by slow leaky boat and have the state dept weenies with them.
Between those two entities, they have devised the most PC panty waist ROE ever imagined. War is not proportional, it is to win, not trade equal numbers of dead. You make the other die and in numbers that they cannot sustain.
Then tell the Marines and Army to kill all the bastards where ever they find them.
Last edited by BountyHunter; 11/16/15.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
To me, it means let them do what they are trained do do.
Get rid of the lawyers, stop bringing troops up on charges because they piss on a couple dead hajjiis, stop charging them because they take some gold out of some rich rag heads palace. Stop making them fill out reports every time they shoot someone it's war. Collateral damage happens, as long as it's our guys killing them, they should have unfettered access to do so
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,078 |
The weak ROE comes from a SENSE of superior overall strategic/operational/tactical position, by those in DC.
I don't think it will change much, until there is a true sense of vulnerability to losing EVERYTHING.
In other words, when the vast majority realize we are in a survival fight, the ROE will be simplified to "locate, close with, and destroy". Probably not before.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,819 Likes: 1 |
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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