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Campfire Tracker
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They could have went into a shopping mall--dispatched a dozen people with that weaponry in less than 30 seconds.
The end result would more than likely be the same.
The element of surprise gives them a good chance of “dispatching” people wherever they choose to hit, but they tend to pick places where people are more likely to go into panic mode than to fight back and they thereby up their odds from the start. These psychos and terrorists (whether Columbine, Planned Parenthood or San Bernadino) don’t take prisoners, so surrendering is the same as suicide. Playing Dodge Ball in a conference room with incoming rifle bullets is a more risky, less effective proposition than turning it into a two way street with pistol fire. All of this sounds good...just remember, when you're returning fire...you are responsible for every round you fire.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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They could have went into a shopping mall--dispatched a dozen people with that weaponry in less than 30 seconds.
The end result would more than likely be the same.
The element of surprise gives them a good chance of “dispatching” people wherever they choose to hit, but they tend to pick places where people are more likely to go into panic mode than to fight back and they thereby up their odds from the start. These psychos and terrorists (whether Columbine, Planned Parenthood or San Bernadino) don’t take prisoners, so surrendering is the same as suicide. Playing Dodge Ball in a conference room with incoming rifle bullets is a more risky, less effective proposition than turning it into a two way street with pistol fire. All of this sounds good...just remember, when you're returning fire...you are responsible for every round you fire. Agreed, we should be held to a much higher standard and more liable than the killers.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,750
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2003
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They could have went into a shopping mall--dispatched a dozen people with that weaponry in less than 30 seconds.
The end result would more than likely be the same.
The element of surprise gives them a good chance of “dispatching” people wherever they choose to hit, but they tend to pick places where people are more likely to go into panic mode than to fight back and they thereby up their odds from the start. These psychos and terrorists (whether Columbine, Planned Parenthood or San Bernadino) don’t take prisoners, so surrendering is the same as suicide. Playing Dodge Ball in a conference room with incoming rifle bullets is a more risky, less effective proposition than turning it into a two way street with pistol fire. All of this sounds good...just remember, when you're returning fire...you are responsible for every round you fire. Agreed, we should be held to a much higher standard and more liable than the killers. I do not agree with your position. However, it does not matter if you use your weapon to save your life, or the life of someone else, you will have to answer for any of your rounds that cause colateral damage.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Then I shouldn't shoot, I'll wait to be shot.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Then I shouldn't shoot, I'll wait to be shot. That's up to you. It's your call.
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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We are all talking about long range accuracy but just a thought to stir it up. If I am carrying a pistol and find myself needing to use it against a threat with long range capabilities I will need to consider closing ground. Just like proximity negates skill, proximity can also negate a ballistic advantage.
If armed with a pistol against someone with a rifle I would not want to start my portion of the fight at 50 yards, I would want to get as close as possible before I fired the first round. I agree that most wolves will run when they are engaged whether they are hit or not and even shots that miss can save lives, but to finish the fight with a pistol I would rather be at 5 feet than 50 yards.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2003
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All of this sounds good...just remember, when you're returning fire...you are responsible for every round you fire.
I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the tip.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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Campfire Tracker
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"Hopefully if you're out with the family and something happens their there will be a man around to protect your wife."
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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In Minnesota we have the four pillars governing the use of Deadly Force. Section 609.065 Justifiable Taking of a Life.
Reasonably in immediate fear of death or great bodily harm.
Reluctant Participant
No reasonable means of retreat.
No lesser force will do.
Other states have other laws but this is the way it is in Minnesota. Sorry, no. Did you just make that stuff up? No It is taken from the Multi State Carry Course at Bills Gun Shop and Range www.billsgs.com609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.
The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode. MN Statute 609.065
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
All of this sounds good...just remember, when you're returning fire...you are responsible for every round you fire.
Laughing my ass off... No wonder the south is the south. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Critical thinking is foreign to you.
So is acting like a pussy. Good thing we got gals like you to coach us along. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
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Bill really has his schit together.
Holy fugk...
My ribs hurt.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
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In Minnesota we have the four pillars governing the use of Deadly Force. Section 609.065 Justifiable Taking of a Life.
Reasonably in immediate fear of death or great bodily harm.
Reluctant Participant
No reasonable means of retreat.
No lesser force will do.
Other states have other laws but this is the way it is in Minnesota. Sorry, no. Did you just make that stuff up? No It is taken from the Multi State Carry Course at Bills Gun Shop and Range www.billsgs.com609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.
The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode. MN Statute 609.065 Bill needs to learn how to read
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Critical thinking is foreign to you.
So is acting like a pussy. Good thing we got gals like you to coach us along. Travis No. Actually, you pull that off very well. It's litttle wonder that GFY is such a familiar term with you. It must be one of several little talents you posess.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
What is your talent?
Besides talking out your ass, hiding, and not being able to use a handgun?
Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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No wonder the south is the south.
Travis
Hey now...!!! Don't judge us all by one guy in Georgia that is scared of his own shadow and can't shoot.
Last edited by jds44; 12/06/15.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
You gotta wonder if he even carries. And if so, why?
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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There is a Woody Allen-like mindset in the the CCW community I jokingly refer to as being 'Ayoobed to Death'. It results from endless stories of eeeee-vile prosecutors whose only goal in life is to torment folks who dust some azzhole who really needed it.
Now I don't know exactly where this is occurring but it ain't in MO. I've got about four decades in LE here, spent over one of the working directly for a prosecutor. In that time I have seen maybe a dozen righteous defensive shootings and none of them was charged with anything. Yes, some were questioned by the po-po. If they truthfully related a set of circumstances that met the legal requirements for a justifiable use if deadly force--and the evidence, witness accounts etc. supported their story--they went on their way. This is not to say they weren't sued, but many states have added legislation that prohibits civil action for a justified use of force. You are responsible to know the laws governing the defense of self or others, wherever you might need to defend yourself.
There's another thing that needs to be said here. There is an undeclared war against the civilian population of the United States in particular and western civilization in general. In many parts of the US, you can go about armed. This accomplishes nothing if you are not willing or able to shoot down a rabid dog hiding inside a human body.
Yes, you are responsible for every round you fire. IMO there is no better insurance than the ability to shoot with surgical precision. I have worked hard for the ability to accomplish that with my carry gun to 50 yards, or a tad further.
I think the close/fast skillset is just as important as it ever was. A lot of these mass killings occur at very close range, either because the killer wants to see the reaction or they are just a piss poor shot. If they stumble onto a committed pistolero who can index fire instantly and precisely, they are going to get a face and/or crotch full of hot lead. Assume they are wearing body armor or explosives. Send the MF'ers to their reward as unrecognizable eunuchs.
The present enemy don't take marksmanship very seriously; but they have some strengths, which must be understood to be exploited.
The enemy has no compunction for killing and gets brownie points for high body count. They average CCW guy (or cop for that matter) doesn't want to kill anybody. If you get caught up in one of these incidents and you can't 'throw that switch' you are asking to be another slaughtered sheep. What we are dealing with is rabid wolves in human form. Ignore the biped and kill the wolf inside him.
The enemy exploits the element of surprise and has little fear his victims will fight back effectively. He has no understanding of OODA and no Plan B. Instant and precise return fire will fook up his murder spree or kill him outright.
Only you can decide whether you can do that.
Last edited by SargeMO; 12/06/15.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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What is your talent?
Besides talking out your ass, hiding, and not being able to use a handgun?
Dave One of them is recognizing insecurity. You really are a jr. high kid inside, and have never gotten over those trying years. You fight that insecurity by watching cowboy movies i'd wager. When you carry, do you feel like you're Clint Eastwood, or John Wayne? Maybe, you just want to feel Eastwood? Afterall, Wayne is dead.
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