4th point is correct in what he said- r.e. the "average" hunter thinks he wants to shoot at 500-600 yards and wants the laziest/easiest they can get. They think that BDC reticles are "it". They are mostly ignorant, which in and of itself isn't "bad" per se, they simply don't know what they don't know.
Most hunters have no business taking shots beyond 250-300 yards AND they don't know that.
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
The MQ is perfect and fhuqking with it,would steal the appeal. It's sanctity is that it's bulleproof and less concession. P.S. and by the way...there are no slated "shooting hours" on The Milford and if you've the ambient light,you can punch that tag. Hint.
Illuminati-esque centerpoint illumination wouldn't throw anything away and may help some with nichely pursuits.
I could give a schit less about the windage. MQ dials are more tactile than MOA and by a fair margin...so the MOA/MOA schit is of less than zero appeal and none of it has anything to do with units of measure. I've never fought MQ setting sanctity and prolly flog on 'em a bit. Hint.
Now while I really enjoy these troubling tales of woe,on how a scope kicked someone's ass,there really isn't much to it,if you actually USE the fhuqking things. Heavy covers,deep shadows and waning light are what I do daily. Hint.
These contrived scenarios of gunning schit offa camo'd feeders,inside the fence,from a haybale and in a Hurricane are fhuqking hilarious! Reality ain't for everyone,as these Threads eloquently attest,if only obliviously. Hint.
Now I've not gone S/S Crazy,as I've only got 40 or so and doubt I've gunned much over 75 in total...but knowing me,I'm prolly sandbagging more than a smidge.(grin) I enjoy watching Dumbfhuqkers make easy schit difficult,due "all" their "experience" and punctuated by Whining wants which are fueled solely on ineptitude.
For outright Killing,the 6x MQ is THE schit. For them that can't stand that much Utilitarian Excellence,the Illuminati is your Huckleberry and them things already exist and are ready to ship.
Pardon my being afforded the luxury,of not being forced to guess.
Hint.....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Put the 1-4 Classic reticle in the 6X or a 3-15 (ish) scope in FFP, but without the lines above the middle. Cap the windage turret. Second place, would be the 1-6 HD reticle appropriately sized. Both with the illumination.
I could easily see this being useful for hunting.
This in a fixed 6x with mil adjustments and I could be done with a hunting scope. The illumination in it is great and am really appreciating the reticle for out to 600yards.
I could agree with that as well.
Whew! The time lag for concurrence on my suggestion was making me think I was out to lunch.
I'd like a fixed 8 power mil/mil quad. I have 6's and 10's and wouldn't mind something in the middle. Cap the windage and make the knob smaller maybe offer an illuminated dot that is just a small dot in the center of the mil quad.
I have never used a "ballistic reticle" so this may sound stupid, and if so please help me. I do have a Mildot S&B but have never used it for holdover.
If I look at this MQ reticle, or any mil based reticle, it appears the graduations are so course, in the case of the SS MQ being .5 mil, that it would be hard to hit any target well enough for a good kill on anything smaller than and elk. Lets use a .223 rem (not an elk cartridge) as an example shooting a 75 gr hpbt bullet with a BC of .395 @ 2900 fps will drop 6 to 8 inches between 500 and 550 yards which is approximately represented by .5 mil in this cartridge. These are not exact numbers, I am only going from memory of some research this morning, but I hope you get my drift.
It appears to me if you want to make good clean kills on game (since we are talking about hunting scopes here) you need to dial for elevation, and therefore only need a good duplex reticle. What am I missing here? Do you just split the difference between graduations and find that close enough?
I have never used a "ballistic reticle" so this may sound stupid, and if so please help me. I do have a Mildot S&B but have never used it for holdover.
If I look at this MQ reticle, or any mil based reticle, it appears the graduations are so course, in the case of the SS MQ being .5 mil, that it would be hard to hit any target well enough for a good kill on anything smaller than and elk. Lets use a .223 rem (not an elk cartridge) as an example shooting a 75 gr hpbt bullet with a BC of .395 @ 2900 fps will drop 6 to 8 inches between 500 and 550 yards which is approximately represented by .5 mil in this cartridge. These are not exact numbers, I am only going from memory of some research this morning, but I hope you get my drift.
It appears to me if you want to make good clean kills on game (since we are talking about hunting scopes here) you need to dial for elevation, and therefore only need a good duplex reticle. What am I missing here? Do you just split the difference between graduations and find that close enough?
Set me straight here.
Thanks!
You are correct that it is better to dial precisely, than to use the hold over markings. Having said that, the verticle hold over with the mil quad have been pretty precise. I have shot several coyotes from 300 to 350 yds with the hold over because the coyote was fixing to leave, and there was no time to dial. I have also shot my 6" round steel at 400yds using the holdover. This is all with a .243. Where the mil quad really shines though, is on windage holds.It allows you to hold very precisely, given you know what your wind speed is with the use of a kesteral. The best you can do with a duplex reticle in the wind is guess, and most of the time with wind over 5mph. that is not adequate.
It is quite easy to break a reticle with .5 mil graduations down to .1 mil. It is a bit trickier with a reticle that has 1 mil graduations but can still be done. .1mil is close to 1/3rd MOA.
Yes, dialing results in more hits verses holding (where elevation is concerned) as the targets get smaller, the position gets more unsteady, breathing gets harder, and the more stress or excitement there is.
Doesn't take but around three shots using both for rank beginners to figure that out.
In all three pictures the elevation and windage is correct to hit the white diamond to the right of the reticle at 475 yards with a "whopping" 10mph of left to right wind-
Dialing elevation and holding wind (preferred method)
Holding elevation and wind (exceptable, but not preferred)
And here's the guess for the "magical" BDC reticles (least preferred, and given today's options a silly choice)-
Doesn't take a whole lot to see which method results in more hits. As for speed..... Dialing elevation is faster to get a hit in most circumstances in the field. That's not a guess.
Thanks guys. I understand the graduations on the windage and see how that could work great, if one was good enough to judge wind, which is a whole different problem and discussion.
I guess since the discussion was "Hunting" not target shooting or tactical/military usage that we would want to dial as much as time would allow. The military wants to hit their enemy somewhere on the 72" tall body, preferably on the 30" torso. We as hunters want hit the 10" kill zone of a deer.
I am sure many of you use your ballistic reticles with precision due to practice and familiarity, I assume I could learn to do the same.
Looking at Leupolds LRD it appears to me that it only allows a little less "wild ass guess" than a standard duplex,
I have a Kimber Montana on order and was going to order a SWFA SS 6X MQ to use on calling coyotes and the holdover reticle should work great for that at the distances I would shoot here in Virginia. But if a new and improved reticle is in the works I may drag my feet a little.
The whole "snipers just need to hit anywhere" is an old wives tale. Individuals/groups in the military that know what the are doing, do not try to hit a 6ft target. The biggest target that I will ever use is a 12in plate and it doesn't matter how for away it is. The goal is to kill whatever you shoot at as quickly as possible and the vitals on a human are the same size or smaller than a deer's.
BDC reticles are a heavy concession compared to well designed mil reticles.
I was just using that scope last night till past legal shooting light, but it was in a western field and not an Arkansas thicket. You may want to go with a 6x42 Leupold with an M1 vertical turret.
Looks like I may have to go that route. I wasn,t in the woods this time
This last time I was unable to see the reticle against a deer I was hunting a cut over rice field and I was out in the field looking at the woodline.
Shortly after sunrise 2 deer came out of the woods and were walking along the edge of the woods about 200 yards away,I could clearly see the deer but not the reticle.
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