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Hi,
I've been looking at several Savage 99s in .30-30 on line. Why is is that the take-down models are viewed as more desirable, and higher priced, than the solid frames? My research indicates that lots and lots of the take-downs have headspace problems? Why buy something with such a high risk of a problem? Especially when the sellers will rarely check for proper headspace when they list them?
Also, if anybody knows, why do so many of the .30-30s made in the 1930s have "frosted" bores? Were these cartridges still made with corrosive primers in the the 1930s?
Thanks, Mannyrock
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Not familiar with research indicating headspace problems with take down 99's. Source of info?
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Campfire Outfitter
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All my 1930's 99s have clean, shiny bores. That includes (3) 30-30s. (2) take-downs with no head space problems and (1) solid frame.
I cannot help here.
RAS
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
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My research consist of reading lots of online inquiries and complaints on various message boards about how to try to fix bad headspace on Savage 99 take-down models. Google it and you will see what I mean. There is no apparently permanent easy fix.
Heck, there is even a sticky on this very subject on this forum! (The poster had to fix two of his rifles.)
You won't find many complaints or inquiries about this with respect to the solid frames.
The take-down models have interrupted threads, the metal is not very hard, and after somebody pulls them apart and puts them back together enough times, the threads get out of wack, and they don't screw down tight any more. Or, the threads get stretched out a little, and excessive headspace occurs. Remember, since 1936 or so was the last year that Savage made the 99 in .30-30, even the youngest of these take-down models is now almost 80 years old!
Because of this, I am curious as to why Sellers generally tout that an older 99 is a take-down. To me, it is a big drawback. (Ask them if they've checked headspace, and they will say no. Offer to send them a headspace gauge for free and ask them to check the headspace for you, and they will say no. Ask them to guarantee good headspace, and they will say no. There is a reason for this.)
Mannyrock
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As to reasons why they are desirable:
-A Win caliber in a Savage rifle isn't that common. Collectors like things that are not common.
-30-30 ammo is cheap and everywhere.
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
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My research consist of reading lots of online inquiries and complaints on various message boards about how to try to fix bad headspace on Savage 99 take-down models. Google it and you will see what I mean. There is no apparently permanent easy fix.
Heck, there is even a sticky on this very subject on this forum! (The poster had to fix two of his rifles.)
You won't find many complaints or inquiries about this with respect to the solid frames.
The take-down models have interrupted threads, the metal is not very hard, and after somebody pulls them apart and puts them back together enough times, the threads get out of wack, and they don't screw down tight any more. Or, the threads get stretched out a little, and excessive headspace occurs. Remember, since 1936 or so was the last year that Savage made the 99 in .30-30, even the youngest of these take-down models is now almost 80 years old!
Because of this, I am curious as to why Sellers generally tout that an older 99 is a take-down. To me, it is a big drawback. (Ask them if they've checked headspace, and they will say no. Offer to send them a headspace gauge for free and ask them to check the headspace for you, and they will say no. Ask them to guarantee good headspace, and they will say no. There is a reason for this.)
Mannyrock Simple solution..................Don't buy one.
NRA Endowment Life Member (and proud of it)
Nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. - Plato
Deuteronomy 22:5
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Mannyrock,
Can I ask a few short questions?
How many 'actual' real people with 99 take-downs have you offered (no kidding) to send a headspace gauge to, at their home address, in order to get that info? And how many said no? How many said yes? Anyone on here? If so, who? Based on your clear, conclusive rationale,..it must be a lot.
I will help you with your concern if you can't come to a satisfactory answer from someone here...: Don't buy one.
Take care,
RAS
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
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The take downs are desirable for the following reasons. Easy 2 clean. Easy to pack. Easy to play with in the house without shooting. Not made any more. Fun fun fun gotta have one or two or three.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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Forty percent of my collection are T/D's, granted, that's only 2 out of 5. Right now I'm working with a new fishing buddy to buy his Dad's 30-30, although I don't know what model it is yet. Unless it felt like it was shaking apart or looked bashed to death, I'd by it, Joe.
I'm not greedy, I just want one of each.
Remember Ira Hayes
JoeMartin
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Well, thanks for the replies, but only Angus bothered to answer my question. The question was: why the take-downs (which bear a headspace risk) are viewed as more valuable than the solid frames?
The question was not whether I should buy a Savage 99 in .30-30 or not.
RAS, in answer to your question, I do my online shopping on Gunbroker, and I have never had a single problem with any purchase. However, over the past 2 years I have contacted at least 5 Sellers who have had a Savage 99 take-down (in .30-30) for sale on that board, and offered to send every one of them a headspace gauge, and not a single one of them will either check or guarantee headspace. And these are for rifles in excess of $800.
Nope, I haven't contacted anybody on this board to try to buy one. If any of you have sold a Savage 99 take-down either face to face, or online, did you guarantee headspace? If the Buyer had asked, would you have guaranteed headspace? If not, why not?
A rifle with bad headspace is not a rifle. It's a problem. :-)
Thanks,
Mannyrock
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Would have to agree with Angus 1895 & RAS on the 30-30 cal take downs. Esp ammo availability & price. My A take down was one of my first 99's a few years back, difficult to find and was a leader on prices then. Cheapest one to shoot for me and I never shoot it. Go figure! GW
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. MACHIAVELLI
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I've been through a bunch of 99s, and have yet to experience the headspace problem you seem so adamant about. When selling something to someone with such an odd fixation, I doubt I'd offer to guarantee anything either. What do you expect the root cause for this perceived issue is?
A 30-30 headspaces on the rim, right?
Last edited by gregintenn; 12/19/15.
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Ok, that makes sense. Thanks.
My suggestion would be to troll the big gun shows and one will eventually show up.
I personally really like the take-downs. I own a bunch and with the exception of one, not had a single problem with any. The only issue I did have had nothing to do with headspace. It was a rotor problem which could happen to any 99 that has a rotor.
RAS
"...aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we instructed you, so that you may walk properly before outsiders and be dependent on no one." - Paul to the church in Thessalonica.
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Someone looking for a problem can usually find it...
Brian
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My guess is that fewer takedown guns were made, and are scarce. Scarce = more valuable. I'd like one....
NRA Endowment Life Member, G.O.A supporter
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"Perceived Problem." "Odd Fixation."
Wow, you guys are a tough audience. :-)
Just Google the subject "Savage 99 headspace problem." And you can read for hours about this problem, from experienced gunsmiths, to collectors, to gun enthusiasts.
It is definitely a recognized problem, especially with the take-down models. Probably a higher percentage problem with the .30-30s, because of their extreme age.
Now, if I buy a Remington 700 ADL, no I don't worry about checking headspace, unless I see a really messed up bolt face.
Best Regards, Mannyrock
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Campfire 'Bwana
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It is definitely a recognized problem, especially with the take-down models. Probably a higher percentage problem with the .30-30s, because of their extreme age.
Best Regards, Mannyrock There are a LOT more takedown 99's in 303 Savage that are as old as any 30-30. So why no talk on 303 Savage rifles with headspace issues?
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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I've always felt that TD 99s were way under appreciated when compared to TDs made by Winchester. I think more people would be willing to pony up more green backs for any TD Winchester 94 than they would for a TD 99 in comparable condition. And yes, this is a tough house to play, but don't let that get in the way of broaching any topic of discussion.
Last edited by S99VG; 12/19/15.
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Don't feed the troll. He has headspace issues.
Go tell the Spartans,Travelers passing by,That here,Obedient to their laws we lie.
I'm older now but I'm still runnin' against the wind
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I think there may be a reason why the interrupted threads were not all there was. I do not know if the 30 30 was offered in full thread. I never owned a 30 30 take down. All my take downs were full threaded. I have owned near 10. All went bang. Is not a rimmed cartridge impervious to head space issues?
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
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