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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,183 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,183 Likes: 1 |
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Member #547
Join date 3/09/2001
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,469
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,469 |
Here's a hint. In order to be found guilty the prosecutor must prove his case......
Beyond A __________ _____.
Now ask yourself again, in order to be found not-guilty....Do you have to prove that you're innocent? I appreciate your efforts, Blue, but you are wasting your time. Happy New Year to you and yours.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,586
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,586 |
So do you still believe that to be found not-guilty you have to prove that you're innocent? FWIW there are circumstances where this may be the case. These are usually referred to as "affirmative defenses". I had a quick look at the Texas Penal Code and it provides for a couple of examples, including insanity and duress (see Title 2 Ch. 8). The Texas Penal Code provides at s. 2.04 as follows: Sec. 2.04. AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE. (a) An affirmative defense in this code is so labeled by the phrase: "It is an affirmative defense to prosecution . . . ."
(b) The prosecuting attorney is not required to negate the existence of an affirmative defense in the accusation charging commission of the offense.
(c) The issue of the existence of an affirmative defense is not submitted to the jury unless evidence is admitted supporting the defense.
(d) If the issue of the existence of an affirmative defense is submitted to the jury, the court shall charge that the defendant must prove the affirmative defense by a preponderance of evidence. (emphasis added) It doesn't appear that self defense is an affirmative defense in Texas though. There may be jurisdictions where it is, but there again I'm not licensed to practise law in any of the states of the US. Carry on.... 
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,108
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,108 |
Now ask yourself again, in order to be found not-guilty....Do you have to prove that you're innocent? Well I did ask myself, and here is what I got in reply. The law states that we are innocent until proven guilty, but the fact is, all of that has changed over the years and in actuality, we are guilty until we prove ourselves innocent. Not the law, but the real world that we live in. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234 |
When the prosecution proves a death, and argues (with or without justification, but that's for a jury to decide), that you shouldn't have killed the dumb SOB, the burden shifts to the DEFENDANT to prove that the shooting was justified ... Something else has to happen before the burden shifts. So, if cur shoots some SOB that deserved it, he can get arrested and prosecuted. Only a jury, and thousands of dollars, can set him free. There are other things that can happen to set him free. I'll use this example for argument:
1 - Somebody rolls their auto late at night on a public road;
2 - curdog drives up on the scene;
3 - curdog approaches the vehicle to try and help whoever needs it;
4 - the driver of the rolled auto, laying on its side, stands up through the passenger window to exit the rolled vehicle;
5 - curdog shoots the mfer dead.
6 - curdog picks up the ejected shells, to hide the crime;
7 - curdog fails to mention to the arriving EMTs that he just happened to shoot someone.
Does cdog get arrested? ... He hid the evidence of his crime. Doesn't look like it.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
Y'all play in the real world when it suits your agenda and step over into fantasy land when it doesn't.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
Is it in fantasy land that you have to prove your innocence?
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234 |
Is it in fantasy land that you have to prove your innocence? I'm thinking you two must live in different parts of Texas.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
We do. I'm near 755' elevation. He's just past the second star to the right and straight on til morning.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,999
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,999 |
The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
Is it in fantasy land that you have to prove your innocence? Sec. 2.04. AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE. (a) An affirmative defense in this code is so labeled by the phrase: "It is an affirmative defense to prosecution . . . ." (b) The prosecuting attorney is not required to negate the existence of an affirmative defense in the accusation charging commission of the offense. (c) The issue of the existence of an affirmative defense is not submitted to the jury unless evidence is admitted supporting the defense. (d) If the issue of the existence of an affirmative defense is submitted to the jury, the court shall charge that the defendant must prove the affirmative defense by a preponderance of evidence."
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,939 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,939 Likes: 1 |
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,616 |
Wow.
Over a hunnert pages of high blood pressure and heartburn on both sides.
Me?
I feel great today.
My plan is to wait for all the reports to come out before I hyperventilate.
It ain't gonna change the heartbreak and tragedy for either side no matter what the findings, but I hope we get answers....
and justice.
Have Dog
Will Travel
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
Homicide is just the word that defines the killing of a human being by another human being, so it is not a criminal act, necessarily. The Deputies who killed Mr. Yantis committed a homicidal act, without question. Will they be found guilty of a criminal act? In similar circumstances, they hardly ever are.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
Gene, you don't need an affirmative defense to be found not guilty. Like I said, you don't know how this stuff works. So do you still believe that to be found not-guilty you have to prove that you're innocent?
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,243
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,243 |
Wow.
Over a hunnert pages of high blood pressure and heartburn on both sides.
Me?
I feel great today.
My plan is to wait for all the reports to come out before I hyperventilate.
It ain't gonna change the heartbreak and tragedy for either side no matter what the findings, but I hope we get answers....
and justice.
And the irony is.......90% of the bickering and name calling ain't got chit to do with the incident and everything to do with the posters' ego....
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
Gene, you don't need an affirmative defense to be found not guilty. Like I said, you don't know how this stuff works. So do you still believe that to be found not-guilty you have to prove that you're innocent? Blue, you know as well as me that if I kill another person, SOMEONE has to "prove" that I am not guilty of murder, manslaughter, etc. It may be the P A who recommends to the Grand Jury that they vote not to indict me. It may be the G J members themselves who go against a P A's wish to indict me. It may be a Defense Attorney who convinces a jury that I am innocent of the charges by virtue of the law regarding self defense. But the idea that I can willfully shoot a person to death and invoke my 5th amendment right and escape prosecution is just not gonna happen. So, either I, or someone acting on my behalf, must prove my innocence at some some stage of the proceedings. I do "know how it works".
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
No you don't Gene.
I'm sorry I used a fill in the blank on you. How about this.....Reasonable Doubt.
Think about reasonable doubt and then think really hard about what a jury determines about your innocence. Then ask yourself again...."Do I have to PROVE MY INNOCENCE?"
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
Wow.
Over a hunnert pages of high blood pressure and heartburn on both sides.
Me?
I feel great today.
My plan is to wait for all the reports to come out before I hyperventilate.
It ain't gonna change the heartbreak and tragedy for either side no matter what the findings, but I hope we get answers....
and justice.
And the irony is.......90% of the bickering and name calling ain't got chit to do with the incident and everything to do with the posters' ego.... That's because the "cops are evil" crowd don't give two flips about the dead man. This is just fuel for their agenda. I'm not mourning his loss either, I never knew him. But I'm not going on a crusade "in his name".
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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