Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Long range elk "hunting" ethics witnessed.

Last weeks elk hunt found me in a spot where I was a witness to a version of long range hunting. After spotting and stalking a herd of about 50 cows/calves/spikes, we were stopped by a bachelor herd of eight bulls. Due to a swirling wind, they slowly went uphill, taking the cow group with them. They weren't spooked, just cautious. Because of their actions, I felt we had a good chance of getting down the mountain, cross the ravine and climbing up the other side and still have a good chance. My new hunter agreed and we found ourselves in position 30 minutes later.
Peering around a rock outcrop I saw that the elk were bedded some 350 yards across another ravine. We never saw the bulls.
Not wanting to chance a shot at a bedded cow, we elected to wait them out. We made ourselves comfortable behind some small pines and waited.

We were also at the northern limits of the property and also saw a mixed group of about 65 elk bedded across the fence. I also saw two trucks two miles away on the road from the adjoining ranch.
The adjacent ranch also has an active elk hunting season as we were soon to find out. Roughly 90 minutes into our wait, a barrage of shots echoed out and all the elk were on their feet. Those below us bunched up and started uphill. Those on the other side bunched up and went uphill and some crossed the fence onto our side.
The shooting was long and sustained. We estimated 30-40 rounds and we heard all sorts of airborne sounds zip through the air. It wasn't pleasant as we were uphill but off to the side of the intended elk some 450 yards. I was glassing the other herd and saw that two elk were lying down, unable to keep up with the herd.

Our little group continued uphill and passed us at 75 yards. The other hunter easily made the shot with his .280Rem. and 150gr. PP's.

A phone call to our rancher made him happy for our success but angry over his neighbors antics. I asked him to call the idiot "guide" and tell him there are hunters present to the south. We put on our blaze orange vests by this point for some identity.

We walked down to the cow after it slid about 500 yards to the bottom. While admiring his first cow, the shooting began again. Looking up we saw a cow fall at the ridge line some 100 yards from our location. It would get up, fall, roll over, hold her head up, rest and try to get up again. Five shots at that cow put us in danger again, on our side of the fence - thankfully the steep ravine kept us somewhat protected. I had the hunter shoot a round in the air so as to signal we were in the area. We dare not climb to the ridge not knowing where the morons were. We would have put the cow down but we didn't know where the other "hunters" were.

Our rancher got his truck within 400 yards and there he recounted his phone conversation with the other "guide". There were five or six in the group and they got to spot 800-900 yards downhill and started flinging lead at bedded elk. Our host asked why they didn't stalk closer so they knew what the hell they were shooting at! They prided themselves as long range hunters, the "guide" said, laughing. There were spikes and rag horns in the herd as well. Once the shooting began, there was no way you could follow which elk you shot at as they bunched up and milled around.

After getting down to the road, we heard more shots as the "hunters" attempted to clean up their mess. They really had no idea who shot what, how many were hit and how many were left for the coyotes.

Last year, the same operation got in trouble with the warden as they were shooting from the roadway shoulder, leaving dozens of brass cases behind.

Without doubt, these jerks gave hunting in general a bad name, not to mention long ranch hunting. Flock shooting 800-900 yards at bedded elk displays a lack of respect for the animal. It was a military offensive at a mixed herd which demands special attention by local wardens.

My eyewitness account is not intended to besmirch the character or ethics of anyone here. But my lengthy narrative may serve to prompt others to evaluate their hunting ethics. Someone ambivalent to hunting would certainly change their mind in a hurry.

Thanks for your story.

Yeah, it's sad stuff like that happens.

Awful story, much worse than when I saw some guys take 17 shots at a moose and then not even check if it was hit.

That's really a sad story. The so called guide and shooters ought to suffer punishment. It's obvious these guys are irresponsible slobs.

This long range "hunting" we are seeing on 30 min tv commercials is BS too. It's wannabe sniper guys without nuts enough to be in or go through what it takes to be in the military or they shoot that far to brag about it.

If that offends some, so be it.

Not nearly as outrageous as your experience but still bad enough.

I was a few miles south of Silverton and was working my way along the rocky rim of a drainage with some pasture in the bottom. The opposite side was black timber and powder snow. I spotted a couple of margin bulls pretty far ahead (probably a 4pt and 5pt) grazing the bottom across on the cold side where the sun hadn't hit yet. I picked a good rock for a steady perch to use my binoculars and just as I sat down I heard shots pretty close by. I stood back up and some distance ahead saw a flash of blaze orange on rim a couple hundred yards ahead. The elk were on alert now, heads up and swiveling to locate the danger. Then another volley of 3-4 shots. The bulls figured it out and began to climb away into the cover of the timber. A couple more shots ring out.

I sat back down on the good vantage point that I had found figuring that I had a great position to watch the follow up and aftermath below.
Nobody drops into the valley.
A couple of minutes later I happened to look back at the direction I had come from and 3 guys were bugging out. They weren't bothering to walk down and check for blood or to trail what they'd shot at. They were heading back toward the trail out. I move ahead to the position from where they had shot and it is 500 yards to where the elk had stood.

So now instead of continuing on the hunt that I had planned to do I've got to trail their former quarry and clean up their mess if there is one. I never found blood (good but meaningless) and followed the tracks high into the black timber until the afternoon when time and distance determined that I had diminishing chance of intervening in a slow demise if that was in fact what was occurring.

Long range hunting is an oxymoron.

Calling what you saw "Long Range Hunting" is wrong.

If what you say is true, you saw complete dickheads flock shooting at elk from a distance.

Only someone who is capable of long range first round impacts is called a long range Hunter.

So the first-timer on the trigger, after getting handed the rifle from the TV host, lays down and drops an animal...

Equals a Long range hunter?

A hunter knows his skill, his weapon of choice and its limitations, the influencing wheather conditions, the state of mind and motion of the animal.

He or she uses this to judge the situation and only shoots, if said judgement comes out on top of a very high percentage for a successfull, clean first - round hit - and he or she is mentally and physically prepared for any followup - shot or trail needed, to resolve the situation, if anything still goes wrong.

This has nothing to do with

- longrange vs. "shortrange" (?)
- rifle vs. archery vs. muzzleloader ...
- standing game vs. running game
- .30-06 vs. 270 or Mashburn vs Slicktrick

It has all to do with

- accurate assessment of situation
- accurate assessment of own skill level
- accurate knowlendge of limitation of weapon in hand

and acting upon all this.

Of course - you know this and only quibble about
"longrange" for the sport of debate.

For me, hunting is something where an animal has a chance to flee because I'm close enough for it to detect me with one of its senses.

"Shooting" is different, and generally takes place beyond where an animals senses are an aid to it for awareness and subsequent flight.

I've done both, have no qualms with either, but I don't confuse the two.

As to the "LR Hunters" you saw Joe... I'm of the opinion some things don't belong on TV. Hunting is one of them. I don't think it helps us, and in the case of impressionable redneck-morons, is hurting us as a community.

Ethics really has nothing to do with how far the shot is, it has to do with whether the shooter is capable of making the shot. I've seen things just as unethical during the muzzleloader season.

I never said anything about "ehtics" or how far or close a shot was in the context of "ethics."

Perhaps you're just making an observation to me, unrelated to what I said?

More can and often does go wrong up close and personal than it does at LR.

Slobs are slobs, my only point is I'm fairly clear what hunting is and isn't. Take away the possibility of an animal using its senses to flee, and hunting ceases and shooting commences.

Brad;
Good morning to you sir, I trust that this finds you and your fine family doing well wherever this finds them.

Honestly more and more I'm in the same camp as you as it pertains to hunting in front of a camera.

When we teach the ethics night of our BC Hunter Safety course we've now included a brief talk on posting both selfie shots and videos up on social media.

It's a brave new world in that regard isn't it?

For my part, I typically tell the class that "ethical hunting" involves using a tool that they can hit a pie plate with every time - on command - in all conditions.

It concerns me not one whit if they use an SKS, arrow or sharpened stick - if the province has deemed it a legal device for hunting then they should practice until they can hit that pie plate. When they can't - that's the distance they need to stop hurling sharp sticks at.

Anyway sir, there's a million opinions on it and that's of course only my own and nothing more.

All the best to you all in 2016 Brad.

Dwayne

Correct, just a general observation on the whole topic and thread.

Bigwhoop ,

Good write up -sad thing is when "the new big thing" pops up everybody and their brother want to give it a try.

I lived in Idaho in 07-08 and met several people who had no idea what they were doing or talking about but they were LRHunters !
One guy - who was a great guy -told me his goal was to kill an elk at 1/2 mile -880 yards with his 25-06 . I didn't know what to say -except the truth -a 25-06 is not a LR elk cartridge [caliber] . He had a shocked look on his face -I asked what bullet are you shooting -he didn't know -had no laser rangefinder -yeah crazy I know but there are droves of people who think like this.
I agree with Brad -filming hunting doesn't do any of us a favor.

I no longer consider myself a LRHunter although I do use a range finder -dial yardage and will take a 500+ yard shot under the right conditions. BUT I'm not going to sit and study a kestrel weather machine -study the wind -study my drop notes -punch in data -angle cosine etc. just to take a pop at a LR animal so I can brag about it.

Went shooting with a few 'LR guys' -none of them could hit an 8" steel plate at 350yds first shot.
I know there are ppl who can do it at 1000 yards -but far too many rookies out there posing and wounding game animals.

The TV/Utube influence was what I was referring to earlier.

To Rick, not saying anything about what you or others at your level can do-just thought you set the bar too low.

Hate to hear stuff like that. I like watching the long range hunting shows. I'm amazed at what they can do. I'm also not so foolish to believe there are scene's we will never see when things didn't go right. I wish they would emphasize more the amount of time they spend honing there craft. Tactical and Long Range hunting shows are definitely are having a huge influence right now , just go look on You Tube. As long as you own a camera, can edit video and attain the following.
1.) Assault or Sniper rifle
2.) Depending on which of the aforementioned rifles you bought. A low power variable "Combat" AR scope, night vision a plus, or a High magnification "Tactical" rifle scope, bigger the objective the better, Tall turrets are a must.
3.)a Bi-pod , a few boxes of Zombie/match ammo and don't for get the suppressor.
you are now qualified to distribute "expert" knowledge on this, or any any other subject for that matter, you choose.

Don't get me wrong there's some really good Long range info on there, but there's also a lot of crap.

I'm going to put together a long range rig this summer . Not because I plan on shooting a animal at 800 yards but because I think I will enjoy it (long range shooting) and it will help my shooting overall. Good hunting KH.

If it doesn't, you're not trying hard enough!

Good luck with your project.

Nicely put.

Only God can judge, but others sure try.

I"ve been around clusters in thick woods, folks shooting at running deer and the like, don't see any difference. I won't shoot unless I'm 200% sure....regardless range...

Thats about all I personally ask of anyone... the rest is none of my business if you get close enough to spit on em or launch one from a bit further out.

But its the folks that really have no clue that are dangerous.

A guy on our lease this weekend shot a doe. Says to another via text I missed, she ran off.... we both said BS, the bullet hit you could hear it clearly...

And to find she had only run about 50 feet....not short, not long, just morons.

They sure sound like a hopeless bunch trying their pot luck on elk at 900yd,

but no more hopeless than the person who completely missed a bull elephant
at under 15yd.