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Campfire 'Bwana
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The good thing is. while them boys are going to prison, obama is getting ready to release 17 from gitmo.


Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"

Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."

MOLON LABE






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Campfire Kahuna
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Unreal. I've posted at least twice on this. The only reason they're not dead right there is because about half of the "protesters" are agents.

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Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Unreal. I've posted at least twice on this. The only reason they're not dead right there is because about half of the "protesters" are agents.


Could be. Could also have something to do with the fact that they aren't trashing and looting the place, and it's not much of a threat to anyone's peace.


Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




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These idiots have no idea of an exit strategy. Like a bunch of spoiled kiddies throwing a tantrum.
I think they've been looking for an opportunity to pull this sheet and were getting impatient.
They picked the wrong hill to die on.


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Originally Posted by high_country_
I can't speak to the Bundy or Hammond clans contracts for grazing, but here in this area, if you have a grazing permit, you must have a carrying capacity property that the cattle can be wintered on with adequate feed and water.

so with that said, it's not joe blow can buy 8 pair and turn them out and come back two years later with the check for the grazing fee and go to the sale. who is responsible for the fence? who covers the damage expenses....yup, the lessee.
Yes, grazing permits do require you to own or show control of base property, which is a place to take the livestock when they are not on the allotment. There is no longer a requirement that the land you list as base property supply the food/water for that number of critters. That went away some time ago as that put the agencies into the having to "value" a persons private property. Folks didn't care for that and they got the rules changed. The group it probably helped the most were those interested in buying grazing permits that are not in the business of making money by grazing...

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Free me, sorry to ruffle your feathers, that was not my intent. I did not point the "Living document" at you as an individual. Let me clarify that it is "us" meaning you, I, and everyone else in this modern day and age. The genius of the document is the simplicity. As a society, we think we are so much smarter, and therefore, complicate things. Watch the (1) full length video of their press conference at the refuge. In that video, they state the reasons for them being there. That's it, no more, no less. Let us stick to what "they publicly state as their position" and not what we all think it should or shouldn't be. After you watch that (1) specific video, then we can discuss what they "publicly claim as their intent" Until next time. Keep seeking Jesus. Everything else is just a band-aid. laugh

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Refuge occupiers unwelcome at Oregon’s Malheur

Originally Posted by Martin L. Peterson, Idaho Statesman


The new year begins with the media taking a nonstory and blowing it up into front-page stuff in The New York Times and the lead story of CNN. The story concerns a band of armed know-nothings from Nevada who have taken over the visitors center at Oregon’s Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

I have spent a lot of time in that area over the years. We visit there each spring and each fall relishing an area generally without cellphone service and more cattle than people. As a result, I have gotten to know a number of area ranchers and county officials quite well. I also know the area’s history. And when you put that all together, it is little wonder that Harney County’s local officials and ranchers want nothing to do with these interlopers.

The catalyst for this effort is the sentencing of two local ranchers on a charge of arson for setting range fires on federal land. Just as people in Idaho’s Owyhee desert and Clearwater Valley take the threat of fire very seriously after major fires this past summer, range fires are also a major threat in the high desert of Harney County. The Miller Homestead Fire in that area in 2012 burned 160,000 acres and forced the evacuation of the community of Frenchglen.

The Nevada group says it is prepared to occupy the facility until federal land in the area is returned to state and local governments. That is the first hint that these folks did no homework before staging their takeover.

In 1876, Dr. Hugh Glenn, a successful California rancher, dispatched one of his employees, Pete French, with 1,200 head of cattle to be trailed to Oregon in search of pasture land. French found it in southeastern Oregon. Forming a partnership called the French Glenn Company, eventually the firm owned more than 70,000 acres of land and 45,000 head of cattle. But, just as today there are protesters upset with the federal government, in 1897 there were homesteaders upset with Pete French and his control of so much land. On Dec. 26, 1897, one of those upset homesteaders, Ed Oliver, pulled a gun on French and killed him.

The property was eventually purchased by Swift and Company. By 1935, they determined that it was unprofitable and sold 64,717 acres to the federal government for $675,000. This is now most of the land that makes up the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The land — purchased by the federal government from private owners — that the protesters think should be given to state and local governments.

There are a couple of other things the protesters seem to be oblivious to:

▪ Though the land is designated a federal refuge, it has continued to be managed as productive agricultural land. The series of canals and ditches originally developed by Pete French are still used to distribute water throughout the refuge, where the huge expanses of natural hay that originally attracted French continue to grow and are cut and bailed by local ranchers to feed their cattle during the winter.

▪ There are also ranchers who have taken advantage of the flow of tourists visiting the refuge each year.

The Jenkins family runs the Round Barn visitors center, which has an expansive inventory of books, western wear and other consumer items. They also operate a commercial tour service.

The Thompson family owns and operates the historic Diamond Hotel in the center of the refuge. It is an important supplement to their ranching income and a major attraction for tourists visiting the refuge. And there are other ranching families who have also become part of the area’s tourism economy.

But, perhaps most importantly, most residents of Harney County aren’t appreciative of outsiders coming in and trying to run their lives. That applies not only to external governmental forces, but also to out-of-area private citizens, whether they are well-intentioned environmentalists or armed protesters occupying federal property.

I’ve spent some memorable evenings sitting with my friend Dan Nichols out at his ranch enjoying a finger or two of single malt Scotch. Nichols is a longtime Harney County commissioner and through him I have had the opportunity to obtain a fairly good understanding of the sensitivities of the ranchers in the county.

In the Monday story in The New York Times, Nichols was quoted: “This county isn’t supportive of what’s being done here at all. Once again, it’s a bunch of those who live without the county telling us what we need to do, how we need to be doing it, and the repercussions if we don’t.”

My guess is that if the national media would pack up and go back to the East Coast, this group of renegades would quickly dissipate and go back to doing more productive things. And they will. Just wait until they have spent part of a winter in the high desert country of Harney County, Ore.










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Originally Posted by Tim_in_Nv
Free me, sorry to ruffle your feathers, that was not my intent. I did not point the "Living document" at you as an individual. Let me clarify that it is "us" meaning you, I, and everyone else in this modern day and age. The genius of the document is the simplicity. As a society, we think we are so much smarter, and therefore, complicate things. Watch the (1) full length video of their press conference at the refuge. In that video, they state the reasons for them being there. That's it, no more, no less. Let us stick to what "they publicly state as their position" and not what we all think it should or shouldn't be. After you watch that (1) specific video, then we can discuss what they "publicly claim as their intent" Until next time. Keep seeking Jesus. Everything else is just a band-aid. laugh


No worries.

First - the founders knew from the start that Congress would pass laws and that they would go out of control if the peasants, I mean people allowed it. They expected that exactly what we see could happen. Yet they still left that door open. You suppose if given a second chance that they would add wording prohibiting any expansion of federal powers? I do not.

Second - I don't have a problem with the occupiers' case against the government (except that they are off-track on this particular issue of the refuge land). I do have a problem with the gal who claims to be a constitutional scholar begging people to fight against the fed because the fed "can't own land". She's wrong.

We supposedly have constitutional protection against cruel and unusual punishment. One judge chose to honor that, and another (along with our legislature, obviously) chose to thumb her nose at it. There's a fight everyone should be able to get behind.

Last edited by FreeMe; 01/07/16.

Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




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Update: Early on, the occupiers indicated they would depart if the community expressed such a desire. Our Wednesday evening town hall meeting pretty well reinforced that thought.

Seems the group has developed substantial Obamination skills as that exit statement is now open to several different interpretations. Our sheriff delivered that blunt and precise message late yesterday (Thursday) afternoon, and the group implied it will remain in place.

Rumor is the sheriff and a small number of community leaders will have another discussion with the occupiers today. I pray some progess is made.

While many insist the event has no impact, that is not so. If this drags on it will substantially affect the community. The Refuge is one of our two primary tourists destinations (Refuge and Steens Mts) in the region.

The Refuge is a recreation/educational facility drawing visitors from all over the world. Not Yellowstone by any means, but important to a 10,000 square mile county with a population of around 7,000+. We'll not see many busloads of school children routed that way this spring to be indoctrinated with the occupier's message, and recreationists will not wander among observers packing black arms to catch a glimpse of a Wilson's warbler.

Seems odd a sector of society that would have joyfully volunteered to sweep up the Wall Street Occupiers and dump them in a pit would stoop to the same tactics. We just want them gone.
Have a good one,

Last edited by 1minute; 01/08/16.

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Well - I'm still of the opinion that they should get off that hill while they still can. That just reinforces it, 1minute. They can still parlay the media attention for the release of the Hammonds, if their hearts are really in the right place.


Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




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I hope they ship some of these fools off to a comfy prison Bed for a very long time !!!

let em be martyrs, lazy effing criminals !!



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And the liberals break cover...


_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack

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Originally Posted by Fireball2
And the liberals govt. shills break cover...


Fixt.

They are among us.


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Some interesting information provided by the Acting United States Attorney for the District of Oregon. This may (or may not) clarify some of the legal actions that took place, and why.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2660399/Statement-USattorney.pdf

Chris

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Originally Posted by ltppowell
"Seizure of the refuge was a horrendous mistake that makes us look like the aggressors. Ammon is surrounded by idiots and hotheads."


Stewart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath Keepers



Us? are part of the Idiots or the Hotheads?

The reality is anytime a group of Idiots and Hotheads pulls a stunt like this they look foolish. Their appears to be almost no support in the local population and as we all know the "Locals" are good hard working ranch folks who don't have time to support this silliness...they are busy being hard working folks.


Can we all say Mr. Bundy has experienced "Mission Creep"?

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Get back in the koolaid line.


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
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Latest PM today(Fri). They will leave when Hammonds are released, and the Federal lands are deeded to the private sector (ranchers and miners - Mining is big in Nevada, no so much here).

Figure I've got about 20 years left in me, so I'll not live to see them go.

Have a good one,

Last edited by 1minute; 01/08/16.

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Originally Posted by double tap
Some interesting information provided by the Acting United States Attorney for the District of Oregon. This may (or may not) clarify some of the legal actions that took place, and why.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2660399/Statement-USattorney.pdf

Chris


So never called "terrorists" yet federal prosecutors charged them with arson under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 and sought the mandatory minimum sentence of five years.

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Ah, what a paradox the Campfire is. There are people who are running around with their tin foil hats on, worried that their spouse is actually a government spy who will make them assimilate into the borg. Yet these same people support political causes that would transform hunting in the west into a game for the rich like Europe or Texas.

Heck, the most liberal presidential candidate seems pretty okay with hunting. But those libertarians will take your land away and sell it to the rich who will close it off to average people who can't afford a king's ransom for access.

People taking over a government building to promote a radical idealogy? Sounds like Y'all-Qaeda is fighting the Yeehad!

And yes, the government is amongst you. I get paid 20k a year to work 80 hours a week, and I only get two weeks of vacation a year. So, BOOO!


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Originally Posted by 700LH

So never called "terrorists" yet federal prosecutors charged them with arson under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 and sought the mandatory minimum sentence of five years.


Not exactly. They were charged with arson under Title 18 United States Code section 844(f), which reads in part:

(1) Whoever maliciously damages or destroys, or attempts to damage or destroy, by means of fire or an explosive, any building, vehicle, or other personal or real property in whole or in part owned or possessed by, or leased to, the United States, or any department or agency thereof, or any institution or organization receiving Federal financial assistance, shall be imprisoned for not less than 5 years and not more than 20 years, fined under this title, or both.

and

(2) Whoever engages in conduct prohibited by this subsection, and as a result of such conduct, directly or proximately causes personal injury or creates a substantial risk of injury to any person, including any public safety officer performing duties, shall be imprisoned for not less than 7 years and not more than 40 years, fined under this title, or both.

The Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 did increase the mandatory minimum penalties for these charges, but that does not mean the only people charged under these statutes are terrorists.

The superceding indictment in the Hammond case also has some very interesting information.

http://landrights.org/or/Hammond/Hammond_superseding-indictment%20May%2017%202012.pdf

Chris

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