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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,365 Likes: 37
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,365 Likes: 37 |
Just a point of information here. They had burn permits at the time of the fires. The Hammonds got the remainder of the 5 year sentence because they were prosecuted under the umbrella of an anti-terrorism law.
Yes, they were convicted for arson on federal property. If that law were evenly applied, the jails would be overcrowded with farmers and ranchers. Total BS IMO and a miscarriage of justice. I may or may not know some folks who fires might have got onto fed land, and no one gave a single f@*k and no one went to jail. I agree that it's BS, norm. Just pointing out FWIW that it was not for burning without a permit - that is all my point was. I'll add, THAT is what the Bundy Boys should have been protesting.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,365 Likes: 37
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,365 Likes: 37 |
There is lot of stupid on both sides.
Bundy had a legitimate gripe loosing his AUM's so some fatcat could build condo's, solar project, whatever without due process or compensation by a department that lack checks and balances it should have. He should have kept paying and kept grazing, he would have had more support.
Hammonds got a raw deal, 5 years for burning without a permit is way over the top. It's hard to argue that there wasn't some bureaucratic overstep on feds part. Thats a problems that could have been resolved with more political pressure by the people.
The militia looks a bunch of unorganized people without a solid plan looking to get famous. It they had a clear message, and clear set of demands that were rational, they would have got more traction.
Gov Brown should have left them alone and stuck to munching carpets, her decision to allow the traffic stop made a martyr, I have a feeling someone is going to pay the price down the road. Another week or two, they would run out of beer and money and left anyway, what was the point of forcing the issue. Just a point of information here. They had burn permits at the time of the fires. The Hammonds got the remainder of the 5 year sentence because they were prosecuted under the umbrella of an anti-terrorism law. Just a quibble, the Anti-terrorism act took effect in 1996 and changed the penalties are certain crimes, one being arson of federal property. A "jury found Dwight Hammond guilty of one count, and Steven Hammond guilty of two counts of, Use of Fire to Damage and Destroy Property of the United States, in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 2 & 844(f)(1)." They were not prosecuted under the 1996 act but rather 18 USC 2 the Act-"(AEDPA) is an act of Congress signed into law on April 24, 1996. The bill was introduced by former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole, passed with broad bipartisan support by Congress (91-8 in the United States Senate, 293-133 in the House of Representatives) following the 1990s World Trade Center and Oklahoma City bombings, and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.[1][2] The real issue is the mandatory minimum rather than all the other chaff. it seems to me, that law was intended to incarcerate someone(s) that did arson to a fed bldg or such, rather than burning sage.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,480
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,480 |
[quote=Stormin_Norman]There is lot of stupid on both sides.
Bundy had a legitimate gripe loosing his AUM's so some fatcat could build condo's, solar project, whatever without due process or compensation by a department that lack checks and balances it should have. He should have kept paying and kept grazing, he would have had more support.
Hammonds got a raw deal, 5 years for burning without a permit is way over the top. It's hard to argue that there wasn't some bureaucratic overstep on feds part. Thats a problems that could have been resolved with more political pressure by the people.
Just a quibble, the Anti-terrorism act took effect in 1996 and changed the penalties are certain crimes, one being arson of federal property. A "jury found Dwight Hammond guilty of one count, and Steven Hammond guilty of two counts of, Use of Fire to Damage and Destroy Property of the United States, in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 2 & 844(f)(1)." They were not prosecuted under the 1996 act but rather 18 USC 2 the Act-"(AEDPA) is an act of Congress signed into law on April 24, 1996. The bill was introduced by former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole, passed with broad bipartisan support by Congress (91-8 in the United States Senate, 293-133 in the House of Representatives) following the 1990s World Trade Center and Oklahoma City bombings, and signed into law by President Bill Clinton.[1][2] The real issue is the mandatory minimum rather than all the other chaff. it seems to me, that law was intended to incarcerate someone(s) that did arson to a fed bldg or such, rather than burning sage. No disagreement. What probably should have been at most a misdemeanor turns into 5 years under the stroke of an unintended consequence. The fault lies with congress and the President's Assistant Attorney's General. Though from the opinions and orders in the criminal and civil case the Hammond's were not without blame.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 362
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 362 |
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,634
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,634 |
Well I guess it is time to send these guys some Depends and band-aids.
I have always been a bit puzzled....I grew up on a dairy/hog farm and we never had time to take a 3 week vacation. Are these guys really ranchers?
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,399 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,399 Likes: 10 |
Murder and felonies all around!!! Welcome to the Brave New America!
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408 |
the dead guy was a professional foster parent
My diploma is a DD214
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 44,031 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 44,031 Likes: 28 |
I have always been a bit puzzled....I grew up on a dairy/hog farm and we never had time to take a 3 week vacation. Are these guys really ranchers?
Posting this from Hawaii on day 8 of a 2 week vacation. All my gov't buddies talked me into joining them for some much needed R&R.... Nice break from welfare ranching.....
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 44,031 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 44,031 Likes: 28 |
My tan is at about a 9.25, I should post up some selfies later.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,619
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,619 |
That chit I see on your flip-flops?
Have Dog
Will Travel
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 44,031 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 44,031 Likes: 28 |
Yeah, one of the G-men has very little alcohol tolerance and chit all over the place.
Typical considering the source.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,550 Likes: 32
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,550 Likes: 32 |
My tan is at about a 9.25, I should post up some selfies later. Sam, hope you're enjoying the vakay, talk of tans, tan lines, and flip flops belongs down in the AI thread. Please, post NO pics of YOUR tan lines. Geno PS, girls on the beach, yeah we wanna see those tan lines! Post pics here so I don't miss them.
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,952 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,952 Likes: 3 |
That chit I see on your flip-flops? There's no way SamO wears flip flops. Don't be trying to drag other people down.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,974 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,974 Likes: 11 |
Looks like edited and unedited video feeds are up. More than ample opportunity to live through that stop. Looks as though he elected to sacrifice himself.
Now to root out the rest of the suicidal rats.
Last edited by 1minute; 01/28/16.
1Minute
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 9,476
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 9,476 |
9:28 of the youtube video is where is looks like he went for his waist.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
There was no need to shoot him. He was not a threat. Not from what I saw. Not in those conditions. Who was the shooter?
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 362
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 362 |
There was no need to shoot him. Bull.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,476
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,476 |
There was no need to shoot him. He was not a threat. Not from what I saw. Not in those conditions. Who was the shooter? Seriously? Hands-up, to reaching for a loaded weapon?
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,536 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,536 Likes: 2 |
Wow that was quite "routine" traffic stop... When I been pulled over usually just one cop car... Watching that video is sad...
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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