Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire FBI YouTube video of traffic stop of Occupiers from aircraft perspective...

I've stayed out of this cluster as of late on purpose. I knew how it would go here, and it has. Everyone has an opinion. One thinks it's black, another says white. If you're in the minority, you're simply shouted down, belittled, told how stupid you are, etc etc etc. That says nothing about the person in the minority but it says plenty about the ones doing the beat down.

Someone suggests he got away from the rig as fast as possible to protect the others inside and draw fire away from them. If the rig was getting shot up, that could be. We don't know from just this video what was happening with the police and how many shots may have been fired. Supporting video's aren't forthcoming, so we're left to speculate and go by the eyewitness account.

I guess no one has considered that if he wanted a firefight with the cops, he would have used the truck as cover, not run out into the deep snow, in the open, away from his only cover. If he wanted a firefight, why run into the open with your hands in the air? Why bother with the pretense of surrender at all and not just come out blazing, rather than setting yourself up in the most vulnerable place you could be, out in the open, with your hands up? Hands up means surrender, in any language. When he realized he was about to be murdered, the game plan changed and he went for his gun. If they were already shooting the rig full of holes, it must have been impossible to just sit there and take it, get murdered. I wouldn't have.

If it had been me, and I was anticipating a firefight to the death, I would have had that gun on my lap while I was driving. But he didn't did he? He had it where it was slow and awkward to get to. Maybe because he had no intention of shooting it until he realized he was about to be murdered. If I was about to die in a firefight, the gun wouldn't be in the shoulder holster or pocket where I couldn't get to it. If I wanted to die shooting, my gun wouldn't be holstered!

We don't have ground video or sound so we have no idea how many shots were being fired and from where. We do know there was a shot by the passenger window at one point, how many others don't we know about? Where's the acknowledgement of that shot in the official report of "3 shots fired"? Does anybody think the police wouldn't open up with all the firepower they had once the shooting started? Dumb question, considering this is the campfire. Of course somebody would think they withheld heavy fire.

The biggest takeaway for me is how quickly they were able to produce a video. Just one, from the air, and without sound. Nothing from the ground, and no sound. That video might tell an entirely different story, but it's not available. No report of how many shots went into the vehicle, when, and with what provocation?

Funny how the authorities can produce a video in a few hours when it supports their agenda, but can't in the Yantis case for months. Really funny, in a not funny way.

The bottom line is, we have an oppressive govt that doesn't value it's citizens lives and shows no restraint in taking them.


There, that aughta keep the trolls busy for awhile.

Absolutely bullshcitt of the highest order. They may or may not have had EMS on standby but i assure you by they were not in the immediate area. NO EMS group is going into an unsecure scene, the scene is not secure until all suspects are detained. The FBI stated in their report it took 10 minutes to secure the scene at which time aid was rendered to Mr. Finicum.

The absolute first thing taught in any EMS course is scene safety and control, thats an unsafe scene until all subjects are detained plain and simple.

I'm not guessing here, 20 years of professional EMS and a stint as a SWAT medic.

I'm only quoting part of your post as there are parts i agree with, but I'm floored how you come to these conclusions.

The FBI stated 3 rounds fired and Finicum was struck 3 times, that we can agree on as the enhanced video shows him react to 3 rounds

You make several statementd alluding to the vehicle being shot up yet there is no visual indicator of any bullet holes in the truck.

You claim we "know there was a shot by the passenger window", how do we know this? Its not in the FBI report and there is no video evidence of this so again i ask how we supposedly know this information?

The 18yo female is the only person who claims the truck was fired upon and she claimed "atleast 100 sots fired", which we all can clearly see isn't true nor is there any visible damage to the truck.

One morning in '01 I started Coffee and sat down to watch the news. Just as the tube warmed up and a Picture became present there was a young Lady Reporter in tears with a Tower on Fire behind her. I thought "What is this?", then a Plane came in from behind a Second Tower and it too exploded into Flames.

I looked at my Wife and could only say one thing..."Everything is going to change now".

To this day A Homeless Person cannot receive a letter from their own Family. They can't get General Delivery, They can't get a P.O. Box and they now are forced into a position of Perjuring themselves and committing a crime because they have to lie about living somewhere they do not actually live just to get a return letter from Family.

Just because they cannot afford to pay rent and a power bill somewhere they are already prejudged and guilty of Terrorism. Many of these folks are Veterans who have already taken an oath and served their Country to the fullest of their ability. Now they are already deemed Terrorists because they have no "Proven" Physical Address.

As a Minister I find something inherently wrong with this whole thing and the willingness of those to Cage themselves and others against their will in the name of Safety. Be cautious of what you wish for...because you just might get it. This Topic Situation has displayed what we have to look forward to in the future.

As a former ff/medic the scene was not secure that's why no immediate EMS

I'll add she also stated," the police were firing for 5- 10 minutes". Anybody believe that either?

Well said and here is the problem...If the Young Lady was indeed telling the truth we will never hear it or see it.

This is the problem and where the Manipulation comes into play. Never question or doubt the official narrative.

A couple of things are evident to me....

1. If Finicum wanted a fire fight with the Feds or anyone else in the truck wanted to ( Before Hitting the Snow Bank) that he would have bailed out of the truck with his gun drawn.... since it has been pointed out in a picture that he carried routinely, one under his left arm and another one on his right hip....

I still think that "his reaching for his gun" was actually him reaching for the place a bullet just went thru his torso... which is a natural reaction...

2. This Video was released by the FBI... they claim the shooting was by an OSP officer...the FBI is releasing what they want the public to see.... are there those here who would say that the Federal Government, especially under this Administration WOULDN'T Doctor up something like this that they wanted the public to see...they are going way out of their way to prove something to public opinion....

Anyone who truly trusts the Federal Government, and especially under the Obama Administration, please raise their hand....

3. I went out to Burns for a reason... ( Just like I went up to Roseburg after the UCC shooting) I wanted to see what I saw with my own eyes... the Roseburg trip was an eye opener, to say the least...especially watching what was being reported.. which was orchestrated from afar... with the college as a back drop only....

I grew up predominantly around metro DC.. living there when many of the protest marches were on back in the late 60s...
anyone old enough Remember Resurrection City? and plenty of other "protests"....

You see these "occupy Wall Street" crowds, out to disrupt daily activity, commercially or governmental business...

Considering what little these "protesters" ( who become militants when they are dressed in camo ) were 'interrupting' in the scope of things, I've never seen the Feds give and prepare such an armed response...to anything domestically in my life...

There was no 'call out the National Guard' to "protect the citizens" of Burns.... the Refuge is 60 miles away, south of town on a Road, with no real crossroads to go anywhere else for 100 plus miles...

The Feds could have easily 'called out the National Guard', set up road blocks north and south of the Refuge Offices, and totally contained these folks.. 60 miles from town... allowing them no way to have basic needs or access to them..

heck if some fellow wannabes from where ever wanted to come out and support the occupiers, I bet half of them couldn't even find the Malheur National Refuge... its not like its a Tourist Attraction with Big Signs all over the place...plus you have to know where it is down Rte 205, which is about as well marked as something on an Easter Egg Hunt...

No the Amount of People I saw coming and going into Burns, with the strike force mentality.... convoy of Black or White SUVs, driving Bumper to Bumper, at high speed outside of Burns and coming into town, plus ignoring any and all traffic laws once in town...

Many dressed in combat gear ( I spent 6 years in the service, so I know what the heck that is) and these guys were over 'dressed' and armed... There were around half a dozen folks left at that Refuge.. 60 miles south of town...

yet they are barricading and Guarding Entry and exit points around town.. 60 miles from the Refuge...like the Court House... like the Hospital.. and other places I didn't see, but who knows...

The Feds also made sure the media was shuffled the hell out of there.. from the Refuge and there weren't a lot of them still hanging out around town from early Wednesday morning...

I've been around other "protest" issues like this in my life, and time in the military and National Guard, to know that this response was no where near the proportions required to do the job.. it was "OVERKILL" in the Nth degree..

Snipers at the Refuge, barricades, the place light up like a big rock concert going on...armored vehicles...

it was evident this entire fiasco response was authorized from far above any command stuff located here in the Pacific Northwest...most of the resources that were being used, sure aren't based out of or found in Burns Oregon...

This stuff was definitely hauled out there from places, and I would even venture to say, from somewhere outside of the Pacific NW... they might have had this stuff at Ft Lewis up in Washington.. but if you look at the Military Bases in the NW, it predominantly Navy, AF at McChord and Spokane... some Ammo Dumps at Umatilla.. and a big training area at Yakima....none of it set up to respond to stuff like this...

and being around town and seeing what I was seeing... it is quite evident, this response was from DC directly...the Administration on High.. and those out there had Carte Blanche to do what ever they deemed they needed to do to get this out of the news...and NO CITIZENS 'RIGHTS' WAS A CONCERN WHATSOEVER...NO MATTER WHO THEY WERE...

and it was quit evident, non of these Feds sent out there had to worry about any repercussions for any 'wrong doing'.... they were quite evidently not concerned about casualties among the occupiers or their supporters...

I was Medical Corp in the Service...the Military doesn't do anything without having med support immediately stationed right there... they don't even send a 3 vehicle convoy somewhere without medical support as part of it... and the Med Support stuff isn't all camo'ed up.. its well marked...

any military or Federal Marked Med Support was totally void
ANYWHERE!!... They definitely were not concerned about their own folks suffering any casualties...

and this video showing the road block of the Bundys going to John Day to speak at a meeting of Ranchers, at a meeting there... was done by a drone...with the AF's capabilities..
they can control drones flying in Iraq and Afghanistan from a bunker at Nellis AFB in Nevada.. so having a batch of them flying all over Burns and SE Oregon is a piece of cake..

That video was evident of being a drone... flying on a chopper crew for 2 years.. I can tell you it was no fixed wing A/C... the Bundys would have seen and heard that...

it wasn't a chopper for the same reasons, plus the operational expense of a chopper vs a drone is night and day...and the drone is more versatile...

The Road Blocks had how many vehicles and armed officers there? Yet NO med support... especially considering if they had gun fire planned to happen or to have to respond to...Evidently they didn't think their officers needed any...unless they had a medevac on standby at the What you might call an Airport outside of Burns...

was quite evident they were not concerned with any casualties among the Bundy crew.. yet evident that they knew the Bundy crew would be armed...

The Federal Government and the FBI are painting the picture they want the public to see, they had the community on available 'lock down' at the drop of a hat...they've gone out of their way to make sure the number of witnesses, were few and far between.....sanitizing public opinion as much as possible...

Is this what we want our Federal Government's response to be??? this was over a darn Refuge office, 60 miles from a town which itself is out in the middle of nowhere...

Essentially show up, lock a town down and come armed to the teeth, with full military resources available? drones over head, that can be armed also.. heck they are taking out terrorist leaders in the middle east all the time...

and the thought also, this "occupy" group wasn't looting, raping, burning etc...in a city no less....but they were White....

compare that to Ferguson and Baltimore... yet what was the Federal Response to that??? Plenty of people armed in Ferguson and Baltimore...

No these occupiers were asking for change in legislation and laws.. what were the rioters in Ferguson and Baltimore asking for??? I'm not talking about their leaders, what were those out looting, robbing, burning etc, asking for?

Remember a reporter asking a black guy in Ferguson, was he rioting and looting for the shooting of Michael Brown, and his response was Michael WHO?

and note, the media wasn't chased out of Ferguson or Baltimore.... but they were told to leave the Refuge out there at gunpoint and told not to come back... and if they didn't leave RIGHT NOW, they'd be considered part of the protesters and could be shot at also....

Those approving of the Feds response to all of this, really ought to consider what you are approving of...

who cares if these folks were occupying a darn refuge 60 miles past a town in the middle of nowhere? and remember there were only about 8 or so protesters left out there...
and there were easily 400 to 500 Federal "officers" in camo gear just in Burns, and plenty more heading south on Rte 205 toward the Refuge... and about anyone of them you saw was sporting a loaded M16 with full combat gear on...

I've seen riot gear and I've seen combat gear... this was definitely more upscale than riot gear...

you had no rights unless these Feds said you had any rights... and that was at the personal discretion of who was running the show in town...

any Constitution this country may have was null and void in Burns Oregon.. it was worth less than toilet paper...

maybe if something happens at or near your home, and pisses off Washington DC, you can experience all of this for yourself...

and as someone pointed out.... If they had this kind of response to the illegal traffic that crosses the Mexican border, and the Illegal Drug flow, that wouldn't be happening in this country....

guess 20 Rednecks at a Refuge in nowhere Oregon is more of a concern to Washington DC politicians than the crap that goes on at our southern border is...

This video has done nothing but fuel speculation. Was he reaching for a possible weapon? Maybe. Was he reacting to a wound? Perhaps. When were the first shots fired? At the initial stop as claimed by the young woman in the car? That question isn't answered either. All we have are more questions. Is a soundless video from an airborne camera all that is available? That seems difficult to believe, but perhaps it is so. If ground level video that incriminated the FBI were available would they release it? If it vindicated them would they release it?

Considering the video and two of the other people in the truck directly contradict her version (and all their versions match each other), it ain't hard to see she wasn't exactly accurate in her take.

This was a Federal Op for the Road Block...

I've been a paramedic and EMT....

I've also been a Military Medic, on the ground and in the air on a medevac unit....

In a civilian world, you can point out lack of "Scene Safe"...

but in a Federal situation like this, I guarantee ya, the Feds aren't going to let their personnel lay there and bleed to death, and worry about Scene Safe Procedures..

In the military we are trained to treat casualties, Under Fire... not Scene Safe Procedures...

I can also guarantee ya, the Feds are not going to rely on Emergency Medical Treatment for their personnel, by an EMT or Paramedic from the Civilian World based out of Burns Oregon..

for their own officers and personnel, they are going to have their own resources, either on scene are close by via Air Support...like a Med Evac fired up and ready to go at the drop of a hat...

I'd pretty much bet they had Folks with Paramedic experience plus on scene in case one of their own was shot...procedure, they are not going to have that many armed personnel out there, that far from medical attention....

they had zero motivation to give any medical attention to the Bundy crowd, or obligation for that matter...strictly if nothing else by protocol...

I have learned a lot reading this thread and the other one on the same subject. I list my newfound ideas below.

1) this was an out and out ambush and it was uncalled for. These were just poor, hard working ranchers who found themselves homeless and moved into an empty building to keep warm.

2) They use a bulldozer to make some improvements and did some inside remodelling.

3) While on a sight seeing trip the were accosted by a bunch of bad guys who seemed to be mad at them.

4) There were a bunch of these bad guys all around the truck when it got stuck in a snow bank.

5) The bad guys killed all the homeless ranchers by shooting thousands of bullets into the truck.

6) Only one guy made it out of the truck and he was shot hundreds of times while his hands were in the air.

7) The bad guys should have had hundreds of EMS personnel between the bad guys and the truck. EMS should have helped the poor, homeless rancher out of the truck and held him up on both sides so he could not slip and hurt himself.

8) If the bad guys wanted to speak with the poor, homeless ranchers they only needed one who was unarmed and standing in his underwear in the road with a "Please Stop" sign in hand.

9) this whole thing could have been settled if the bad guys sent one unarmed spokesman to the building in question with a wagon full of beer and they could have sat down and worked it all out.

Have I missed anything?

ain't nothing new in that observation..

when shooting starts.... its not unusual to have 12 differing opinions of what happened out of a group of 10 people...

maybe she was FOS... and maybe that is what she thought she saw...

nothing unusual, someone has five bullet shots at them ( or they even hear 5 shots) and they will think to themselves the officer emptied an entire 30 round magazine at them....

so what each person reports has to be taken with a grain of salt, whether it supports ones opinion or doesn't...

so? That means the subject is closed? chuckling

Not dead or closed, Sam, but a professional opinion as to why no one rushed into deep snow to render aid to an armed man who had just been shot when at least two other armed suspects were still active in the vehicle.

And then there was an alternative response from another qualified source. ...

Nothing like reducing a serious situation to a comical situation. Unfortunately the release of this Video was intended to do exactly that. Divide and cause disruption to the point that in the end it is presented as funny and acceptable.

Well played Indoctrination and dismissal of how serious this situation truly is for the future Freedom and Prosperity of my Grandkids. Somehow I don't find a bit of it worth making light of. Just or not a HUMAN BEING died. And it truly is just possible it could have been prevented.

I hope that when my Grandkids are reading about this in History I am still around to help them question the official "The Earth is still Flat" narrative.

I wasn't going to ligitimize his post with a response. This has generally been a very good thread full of thoughtful, albeit sometimes impassioned and hasteful, responses. I'm all for joking around and while this might not be the best thread for jokes, at least Scott F was respectful and maintained a modicum of grammar.

whatever. It's still bogus, and still wrong, and still smoke up someone's azz. But if professionals agree it's the right thing, who am I............ disgusted.