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maybe you two could share a bunker.
Let's be honest here. You live in Montana and do not have a Bunker? I'm pretty sure you do, in fact if you guys up there play your cards right the whole State Could be a Bunker. Just let your Banks deal in GOLD. lol
When I no longer have the right to protect my own person or property...my person and property have become public property in common.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
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wow, dude. I don't know anyone with a bunker except a survivalist cult that thought the world was ending a few years ago.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,912 Likes: 13 |
Call it what you may Gentlemen...
but what I see is a sad day in American History, regardless of how it went down....
and a big Thank you to Mallard Addict for his input and perspective.... despite my experiences, I yield to his perspective of being a SWAT team Medic, which would be more in play than this being a Military Operation...
But regardless, what I saw in Burns, it was Hard to Tell Who was WHO without a program... as far as Federal Agencies... not much of this stuff or these guys were well marked with whoever they were....
Heck they could have been Martians or Russians, for all we know....
I do think they could have taken down Finicum without shooting him.. beanbag him and then taze him...he was out in the open...
not being an LEO, so take that into consideration...but If I was there, I'd be more concerned about those in the truck and not being able to clearly see if they were a threat or not...
and I repeat the entire thing from Start to Finish is a sad page in American History..... on both sides...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Campfire Ranger
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Somebody please tell me what the hell hit the truck at 1:18 and 1:44 in that video, if not bullets. Flash bangs and pepper sponges. It was in the narrated video and posted here 2 or 3 times. And the Folks in the Car knew this what these weapons were how? Was there a big sign stating "These are only Flash Bangs and Pepper Sponges and We are only trying to subdue you not kill you"??? "Disregard all the bullets going through your vehicle because we will never let it get out that these shots at you were real" Really, how do know or think the whole factual truth will ever prevail in this event? Guilty or not, I want the whole story and all the evidence. Anything less is an attempt to play me as a fool. No one has to.play you for a fool....you openly show everyone as it is
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Dec 2015
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wow, dude. I don't know anyone with a bunker except a survivalist cult that thought the world was ending a few years ago. Where have you been? Dad is 81 and just told me the other day that we probably should find a safe place to bury the Firearm Collection or his Grandkids might never see it. HE's AWAKE. Put trust and have faith in your Government and this will be true for you also. If you care of course? Tell you what, only a Politician with Diplomatic Immunities will get to keep their Firearms when it happens. No one is getting Great Granddad's Rifles from me, you can give yours up if you like but please do not support or ignore real policies that might take mine from my Great Grandkids. GUN COLLECTIONS are NOW Considered A CULT! Welcome to the CULT Man! Might want to consider an underground place to safely keep them in the Family. IE/ "Bunker". 
When I no longer have the right to protect my own person or property...my person and property have become public property in common.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2015
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Somebody please tell me what the hell hit the truck at 1:18 and 1:44 in that video, if not bullets. Flash bangs and pepper sponges. It was in the narrated video and posted here 2 or 3 times. And the Folks in the Car knew this what these weapons were how? Was there a big sign stating "These are only Flash Bangs and Pepper Sponges and We are only trying to subdue you not kill you"??? "Disregard all the bullets going through your vehicle because we will never let it get out that these shots at you were real" Really, how do know or think the whole factual truth will ever prevail in this event? Guilty or not, I want the whole story and all the evidence. Anything less is an attempt to play me as a fool. No one has to.play you for a fool....you openly show everyone as it is I was looking forward to your input. You are the one that thinks LE should just shoot first "Just in case" and every CITIZEN might have their Hand on an IED Trigger. Now this is what every Law Enforcement Officer needs to be thinking as he is pulling over innocent Old Ladies or Gentlemen, Mothers with Children in the Car, Etc just because they have a taillight out. Yep, treat everyone as Hajis "just in case". I am now honestly in fear for my Family if they get pulled over because of your comments on here. Scary stuff my Friend...
When I no longer have the right to protect my own person or property...my person and property have become public property in common.
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Call it what you may Gentlemen...
but what I see is a sad day in American History, regardless of how it went down....
and a big Thank you to Mallard Addict for his input and perspective.... despite my experiences, I yield to his perspective of being a SWAT team Medic, which would be more in play than this being a Military Operation...
But regardless, what I saw in Burns, it was Hard to Tell Who was WHO without a program... as far as Federal Agencies... not much of this stuff or these guys were well marked with whoever they were....
Heck they could have been Martians or Russians, for all we know....
I do think they could have taken down Finicum without shooting him.. beanbag him and then taze him...he was out in the open...
not being an LEO, so take that into consideration...but If I was there, I'd be more concerned about those in the truck and not being able to clearly see if they were a threat or not...
and I repeat the entire thing from Start to Finish is a sad page in American History..... on both sides... Thank you for your HONEST first hand account of what you saw Sir. By far it trumps any of the speculation presented on this thread. We may never know the whole story but it is important to not let someone else tell us what or not what to believe.
When I no longer have the right to protect my own person or property...my person and property have become public property in common.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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They threatened the Pacific Flyway? The fiends! Listen azwhole, if Utah Lefty throws something out our way regarding a flyway, it's going to be looked at with the respect and consideration founded in long association and TRUST,....this IS an outdoor site, and UL has a little BACKROUND here. You ? Another comedian, it would appear,.... Lemme re-phrase,...another WANNABE comedian. GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Seafire, i agree the whole thing is sad on all counts. Having grown up hunting the Malheaur and Chesnimus areas they both hold a special place with me.
My family still has friends ranching that area and their take is inline with your impression of whats going on in Burns. Noone wants the protestors there, people are mad that the protestors stole credibility from the Hammonds cause as well as all ranchers involved with grazing and noone wants all of the alphabet agencies in there small farming town.
Both sides could have played that WAY better and likely with differnt results, sadly i feel Finicum forced their hand in the end and we got this result.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,098 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,098 Likes: 6 |
At the end of the day, Finicum was not killed for his beliefs, or his trespassing, or the words he said.
He was killed for not following commands from LEO, putting himself in a situation where deadly force would reasonably be used, considering all the circumstances.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
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At the end of the day, Finicum was not killed for his beliefs, or his trespassing, or the words he said.
He was killed for not following commands from LEO, putting himself in a situation where deadly force would reasonably be used, considering all the circumstances. Please, don't try to make any sense. It isn't going to go over well.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,098 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,098 Likes: 6 |
4ager,
I know, but sometimes I just can't help myself.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Laughing...
I still need to get to MT. I owe you some beers. Would have been this spring, but ...
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,912 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,912 Likes: 13 |
Well, one thing I haven't seen mentioned on the thread, but I haven't read the entire thing...
The Hammonds told the Bundys they didn't want their help or attention... and the Bundys ignored that and went on with their occupy gig, anyway and still claiming they were doing it to support the Hammonds...
Even after Arrested, the Bundys told those left to go home and yet there are still people out there occupying the Refuge HQ....
and Finicum is dead now... regardless if he was murdered or just picked the wrong time with the wrong folks to try and make a stand, its water over the dam at this point...
only people I really feel sorry for is the people who reside in Burns and the local area... they're going to be talking about this fiasco for Generations...
The local Sheriff's Office stood up and did what they thought was right, and did the best with the limited resources a small town and sparsely populated area like Harney County has..... then the FBI comes in and makes them not only look like Andy Taylor and Barney Fife, but are treating them like that...
Just What a small town like Burns needs in a bad scenario like this.... have a bunch of DC hotshots come into town, make them look bad, terrorize the community themselves.. and when its all over leave their mess behind and go home and on to more high profile attention...
My prayers are for the folks in Burns, their Sheriff and his department, and hope they recover from all of this quickly and can get back to their daily normal lives...
and I also have to give Big Kudos to Oregon State Police and some of the Deputies from bordering counties for their professionalism and courtesy to the public, in the pursuit of their duties....
The Bundys may have an argument, I don't know, I'm not a rancher.. and don't have any family that are....but they certainly didn't pick the right place to make a stand, or manage it with any efficiency.. seems like the door was open to anyone and everyone who owned an AR, had a camo jacket, and had a beef with the Federal Government, and what for didn't really matter...
after the dust clears, I'm going to make another trip out there.. just to see how a small town community recovers after something this crazy....
but I really bet the Feds aren't going to be any more popular with anyone out there, than the Bundy Crowd was...
too include the Sheriff and his Dept...
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Actually, much of that was addressed - it's part and parcel of the Bundy bunching being played the fool to undermine the Hammonds and Constitutionalists.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,098 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,098 Likes: 6 |
Laughing...
I still need to get to MT. I owe you some beers. Would have been this spring, but ... You surely don't owe me a thing. But if you are in the area, and have some time to kill, let me know.
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
The video of Mark McConnell is interesting. It is not, however, the direct testimony of Ryan Payne or Shawna Cox. If we are going to be skeptical of the testimony of the 18 y/o girl we should probably be skeptical of his as well. Correct, it is hearsay(second hand reports).
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
well said, Bugout.
I see lots of opinions and assumptions.
While there may not be many people agreeing with either the occupiers, or the way the whole thing was handled by the Federales, the one thing that still blares a flashing neon light is the way the public lands are being administered now.
It's even hard to get the message through to people on THIS website that ranchers and hunters on public lands are standing in the same boat, and when shots are fired into the hull by the opposition at one target, they both go down with the boat...
Many here take the side of the govt. because they simply don't want to risk losing free hunting. Thank you and a resounding BRAVO ! GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,098 Likes: 6 |
The reason I don't have anything to say about the grazing situation, is simple. I'm not well versed in the history, or current situation, other than what I see on the news.
I don't like to run my mouth much, when I don't know what I'm talking about.
The problem with a lot of the mouthpieces on both sides, they all seem to me to have hidden agendas.
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