Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game The 30'06 is FAR superior to the .308, Headhunter....

Headhunter. I'm fascinated. These boards have been too quiet lately. Tell me why the 30'06 is far superior to the .308. While your at it, maybe you can explain why the .270 is superior to the .280. E

E<BR>Can't help on the 308 vs 30-06 question, but isn't it obvious on the 270/280 question? <P>Imagine you were a bit shy on cognitive abilities and had just a few bullets to choose from. 270 is the winner, you don't need to waste much time thinking about it [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] <BR>art

Art, you've made my day. E [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/laugh.gif" border="0[/img]

Very much enjoyed that myself!.......

guys,<P>I know the 308 has a small cartridge, I also know the 30-06 is the all around hunting gun, but to say the 06 is far more superior to the 308 is wrong. On a study I read, they comared both guns, and it said at the end that if a 3006 is a all around gun then the 308 must be also. I hunt with both. I feel the 308 is more accurate, but I feel the 3006 has more umph then the 308. Either way I see it they are about the same. the only difference is the volocity and KE wich is not that much.<BR>I just though I would put in my two cents and try to make somone laugh.<P>86

guys,<P>I know the 308 has a small cartridge, I also know the 30-06 is the all around hunting gun, but to say the 06 is far more superior to the 308 is wrong. On a study I read, they comared both guns, and it said at the end that if a 3006 is a all around gun then the 308 must be also. I hunt with both. I feel the 308 is more accurate, but I feel the 3006 has more umph then the 308. Either way I see it they are about the same. the only difference is the volocity and KE wich is not that much.<BR>I just though I would put in my two cents and try to make somone laugh.<P>86<BR>ps No comment on the 270 I think it is a wannabe 30-06.

The '06 is superior to the 308. Notice I did not say far. It pushes HEAVY bullets better (and has a real edge there), and has a SLIGHT velocity edge w/all bullets. Anybody who uses the word FAR in there, doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground. The 308 is more accurate, but it's edge does not matter FER NUTTIN as far as hunting goes as the'06 is plenty accurate. The .308 is a fine round, but it ain't as fine (IOW, as good as) as the ole '06, but it is still a FINE ALL AROUND ROUND.<P>Sitka and Youngbuck...the 270 is what my gun is chambered for. Even though it has been used succesffuly for Grizzly and Brown bear, the .308 is better for those two mean a@@ beasties (and BIG MEAN BEARS are the only things that a .270 can't handle on this side of the Panama Canal and do it damn well, add the other side of it in too) the .270 sure as hell ain't no wannabe '06 and it sure as hell ain't the all around gun that even the puny .308 is. But, it is a better round for sheep and antelope and it is a damn fine round. Notice the period there following the word better...

slinky,<BR>like I said I just want to start conversation and make some jokes. I guess the reason I go for a 06 than a 270 is the fact that the bullet is bigger and can be found in different grains. I feel the 270 is flatter and faster, but when it come to shooting a bullet like a 150 grain round the 270 can't carry it. it is too big. My 308 shoots 150's better than a 270. it will fly a few hundred yards but past 250 300 the 270 round falls like the fox I shot with my bow. Put a 130 or 140 grain in the 270 and watch out it will hammer almost anything that moves. <BR> All said, I guess with smaller bullets the 270 is great but with a bigger bullet it is not. from the 308 or 06 I prefer 150 or bigger when I hunt mule deer or bigger game. I love 125 grains for Coues deer or Javelina. Less mess to clean up.<BR>86<BR>ps I still think the 270 wishes it could shoot a 150 grain like the 3006 does. The 308 does too somewhat. no hard feelings?

My arguement is that in the game fields you will see no difference. The '06 can handle heavier bullets, so what? With today's premium bullets, a 165, or a 180 gr. bullet will penetrate deeper than any conventional 220 gr. bullet. At 90% weight retention, a 180 gr. bullet weighs 162 grs. Even using a 220 gr. Nosler Partition, you have a bullet weighing 147 grs., or 2/3's of it's weight. You can push them faster with an '06 ? What 100 ft. per second ? Big deal. That gives you, what, a 50 yd. edge on expansion range ? It only gives you a whole 9 yards on point blank range. So your critters stand around at 525 yds., not 550, and never as close as 475 yds., where the "puny" .308 will work just fine. Right. The big bore competitors, and the military snipers, say the .308 is superior to the '06. Because they shoot more accurately, particularly with factory match ammo. Try finding some mil surp practice ammo for the '06 these days. It can be done, but tough, and often corrosive primed. Good mil surp .308 is availible in many places cheaper than I can buy just the bullets, powder, and primers. I've owned and used both. The .308 gives up 100 fps. which means nothing in the field. For that, it kicks 14% less, which makes it easier to shoot more accurately. That's the only difference you will notice in the field. E

Ah..., but the 308 Win is far superior to the 30-06 in accuracy, and thats no bull!<P>Notice I said "far". I would rather have the easy handling and accuracy of the 308 Win. than the extra 100 fps. The 308 Win is great with 120g-165g bullets, has accuracy needed for varminting at long range, and still is pretty darn effective at 200 yards with 180g and 200g bullets for heavy payload on elk and moose. <P>The 308 Win can shoot smaller groups at 600 yards than the 06 can shoot at 300 yards and at 1000 yards the 308 Win can match the accuracy of the 06 at 600 yards. <P>I really don't see anything terribly superior about the 06 when compared to the 308 Win.<P>Just the way I see it, thats all.<P>Take Care<BR>~rossi~

I have never been a big 280 fan, although in truth I have not worked with the cartridge extensively. However, if you talk with some of the better custom rifle makers,David Miller being one, the 280 is not a recommended cartridge. The big selling point of the 280 over the 270 is the wider range of bullet weights available. The claim of course is that this makes the 280 a more versatile choice over the lowly 270 and it's 130 or 150 grain bullets. Well, according to David Miller and others the 280 can be an extremely finicky cartridge to load for. Often the rifles will only shoot one bullet weight well, this may or may not be the weight you wish to use. The 270 can be made to shoot most 130, 140, or 150 grain bullets relatively easily. In other words according to Miller and others, the 270 is a better and less finicky choice for those having a custom rifle built. This subject was also covered by Gary Sitton in Peterson's Hunting.The point being that claimed versatility of the 280 is a moot point due to the cartridges often finicky behavior compared to the easy going 270. <P>Sitka Deer, <BR>I am not sure if your comments were directed at me? Feel free to e-mail me if you have a problem with me.

Headhunter. I was of the impression that the .280 was a big favorite of the custom rifle makers. I've followed it for years. You know Jack O'Connor, Jim Carmicheal, Kenny Jarret, etc. I'm on my second, a custom Ruger. Shoots lots of tiny groups with 120 gr. Sierra's, and right off the bat, shot .4 inch groups with the "finicky" Barnes XBT in the 120 gr. weight. Shot my break in loads in the .5-.7 range too. Old powder, IMR 4320, and 145 gr. Speer bullets. My other one liked Nosler Partitions in both the 140 & 160 gr. weights. Really, this is the first I've heard of this strange phenomenon. You say the .280 is very finicky, and usually won't shoot but one bullet well ? But the .270 can be relied upon to shoot any 130, or 150 gr. bullet ? I have trouble with that one. Doesn't make sense, and I've never heard, or experienced, that. I will agree that the heavy bullet advantage, with today's premium bullets is probably theoretical. How about the .308 vs. the 30'06 position ? I saw no comments on that point. E

Eremicus,<P>I have absolutely no reason to doubt you on this. Truthfully, I do not like quoting the gun scribes which is what I have done here. I am not well versed on the 280. The article I am referring to is "The Classic 280" by Gary Sitton in Hunting magazine.<P>As for the 30-06 being far superior to the 308, here are a few facts. The 308 simply cannot compete with the 30-06 based on case capacity alone. A 308 can no more equal a 30-06 then a 30-06 can equal a 300 magnum. We already know that bullets over 180 grains reduce powder capacity in the 308, this simple fact alone makes the 30-06 a more versatile choice for the one gun hunter of large big game. In looking through various reloading manuals, I can find 30-06 loads with several powders that will drive a 190 grain Hornady at 2,800 fps. The 308 with max powder charges will drive 165 grain bullet at just over 2,700 fps. The moral of the story is that the 30-06 can drive a 190 grain bullet significantly faster than a 308 can drive a bullet weighing 25 grains less. I think this rather emphatically points out that the 308 is not equal to the 30-06. In fact, the 308 lacks the velocity to offer flat trajectories with heavy bullets over extended ranges. Where do we end this debate? I mean the 300 Savage is close to the 308, and the 30-30 is somewhat close to the 300 Savage etc. The simple truth is that the 30-06 is a better and more versatile hunting cartridge. Just my simple opinion of course. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Headhunter,<P>I will respectfully disagree with your 165g, 2700fps load. Hornady LM loads a 308 Win 165g SP at 2880 fps and the 06, LM load 165g SP at 3000 fps. Federal loads a 165g Barnes X at 2900 fps in the 308 Win. No matter what is done, powder for powder, bullet for bullet, barrel length being equal, the 06 is approximately 100 fps in front of the 308 Win with 180g and lighter bullets, period. The only real difference is the 308 Win is easier to shoot and is unquestionably more accurate, which means excellent bullet placement.<P>Take care,<BR>~rossi~

Try loading a 250 grain Barnes in a .308 and see what happens. .30/06 rules.

When we use the words "always" and "never" or when we say X brand is better then Y brand or in this case when I read that the .308 is more accurate then the 30/06 I must assume you mean all .308's are more accurate then all 30/06's or the point is irrelevent. I would think that the "always and never" phrase will bite you in the a$$ eventually and this thread is closing in on it. I know I have had big chunks removed from my hind end from the use or "implication of the words "always" and "Never" <P>I rather doubt all .308's in general are better then all 30/06's in general there are bound to be some very accurate rifles of each. I have cut a post from another thread and have pasted it here as I think much of it applies and I'm to lazy to re-type it. <P><BR> These coments regarding which rifle is more or less accurate in competition are somewhat<BR> amusing to me. <P> It's about as applicable as seeing a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge monster truck at a show. The<BR> only factory part that has not been tuned or modified is the emblem. <P> From what I have seen, guns taken from the box brand new and fired can be a tack driver<BR> in a Ruger, Winchester, Weatherby, Sako, Saur, Hyem, Savage, Remington etc. <P> Or you can have anyone of them which is a pig. I have seen some awful Winchester rifles<BR> as well as all the others. I prefer Winchester's but am the first to admit that it is<BR> possible to get a rifle that is awful. Especially the trigger pulls! How do you shoot a gun<BR> perfectly accurate with a 5-7 pound trigger pull?<P> If your honest with yourself it is obvious that even your beloved Brand( or caliber) rifle can be<BR> purchased brand new that will suck. Even the brands you dislike can come from the box<BR> and be a tack drivers. <P> The things you want to consider are the building blocks your buying. Do you want integral<BR> bases milled in the reciever? Do you want a pretty walnut stock? do you want CRF? or a<BR> sear block safety? Tang safety? short bolt throw, feather weight barrel? The "BOSS" system? do you want only factory loads or to use your reloads?<BR> <BR> It is clear some or all of these things can be added or changed to morf your favorite brand<BR> into anything you like. <P> I think it's foolish to debate accuracy by stating competitive shooters who have<BR> significantley changed the rifle they use completley from what is was when it came off the<BR> conveyor belt at the factory. <P>Do we really believe that the average .308 in the hands of an average shooter is any more or less accurate with factory loads then the average 30/06? Somehow I don't see any caliber over .277 standing out as the most accurate by enough to matter iiunder field conditions. This makes any accuracy claim for one over the other a non-issue to me. jj

Well JJ, I surely can't disagree with any thing you just stated. The 308 vs. 30-06 accuracy debate is of no consequence in hunting situations. On the other hand, the 30-06 and its ability to handle heavier bullets at faster speeds and thereby flatter trajectories, can make a difference in a hunting situation IMHO.<P>Interestingly, I also have seen pigs in almost every rifle brand including my beloved Weatherby and Winchester. I will say that I have yet to see a pig in a Sako. Those Finns haven't shown me a true pig yet!

It is to laugh...<P>Eremicus - You didn't have anything better to do with your Saturday ? <P>Your post, and the following antics reminds me of kind of an old joke:<P>A truck driver pulls into a truck stop/roadhouse, get's his dinner and a beer and proceeds to start eating. <P>A few minutes later, a kind of strange looking guy walks in and asks for one of those foofy drinks with fruit and an umbrella in it. The bartender looks at him kind of strangely, then asks him " what's the cube root of 4096? The odd looking guy replies " That's simple - 16!" The bartender pulls out a .38, and plugs the stranger. <P>The trucker is stunned. All he can do is sputter" You - you - you murdered him !"<P>Bartender replies " Ah heck no, this fellers a nerd. Too damn many of em nowadays, especially after the dot.com to dot.bomb phenomenom. The government has made it open season on em. No limits! And there is even talk of starting a bounty! They's worse than rats"<P>Well, the trucker is still a bit in shock, but everyone else in the place is nodding, and seems to go on with their meals. So he lets it go, and goes on to finish up his dinner. He then heads out to the truck, and after some shuteye, starts on down the road. <P>Well, it's not too much further on when a soccer mom in a Suburban cuts in front of him, he has to jam on the brakes, and as much as he tries to stop it, the trailer ends up jack-knifing on him. Unforunately, the load shift pops the doors, and bunches of boxes spill out onto the highway. Boxes of computers. Needless to say, this gathers a crowd. In fact, it gathers a lot of strange looking individuals. people with pants too short, wearing black shoes and white socks, carrying pocket protectors, wearing really bad eyeglasses. Talking excitedly about motherboards and gigahertz processors.<P>All of a sudden, the little light bulb goes off in his head and the trucker realizes they're all nerds, and they're looting his computers. In a flash, he grabs the 12 gauge he keeps in the back of the cab, and starts blasting away !<P>Just then, A state patrol car pulls up, lights flashing and siren blaring. The state trooper immediately jumps out of the cruiser and starts screaming at the trucker "Stop shooting ! Stop Shooting!!"<P>The trucker lowers the gun and replies " But they're nerds ! It's open season!"<P>To which the trooper says " Well sure, but you can't bait them !!" <P> [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<P>Regards,<BR>Scott

JJ,<P>I get the jist of your point, and I know you are a long time user of the 06 and probably know its attributes in the field more than most. <P>The reason I bring accuracy into the mix is only because it was this accuracy that put the 308 Win on the map as a good sporting field cartridge. Early on (early 60s) most hunters dismissed the use of the 308 Win and branded it as a sub performer to the 30-06. It was only through Military use (7.62 NATO) and National Match Course competition that the 308 Win finally got a foot hold in the game fields.<P>It's popularity spread from it's accuracy and ease of shooting. Being a SA chambering further enhanced its appeal as it is chambered in just about every conceivable action out there.<P>Granted, you may have to work a "rifle" to achieve accuracy, but thats not really the fault of the "cartridge" per say. Study after study by the Army indicates short brass burns powder more uniformlly and completely, creates more uniform pressure throughout the hull, and demonstrates the ability to be far more accurate than longer hulls do. <P>Now I realize in the field the ability of a 308 Win to shoot 0.5" groups from a factory rifle vs. perhaps the ability of an 06 to shoot 1.2" groups is a moot point in most cases. However, in my opinion, it is for this reason (accuracy) the 308 Win has become so popular in the last 35 years. I do not think you can totally discount its reputation for accuracy, as its popularity is closely linked to that factor. I'm strictly looking at the cartridge in this instance and not the rifle chambered for it. <P>I also believe it is still much more manageable to shoot and shoot well. I have taken several whitetails, muleys and antelope with the 308 Win, shooting 125s, 150s, and 165 grainers. Belive me, it shoots plenty flat and hits hard enough with 165 grain bullets to dispatch 400 pound game animals at 300 yards out as long as the bullet is where it needs to be. I'll give you the 180 grain argument; but the 308 Win can still spit those out at 2650 fps, and that makes it a solid 225 yard performer with the heavier stuff.<P>John, why would you throw a 250g bullet in a .308 bore? Unless perhaps your talking necking up to a 35 Whelen. Try a 358 Win, its only 100 fps slower than the Whelen with the 250 grainer. It also enjoys a pretty good reputation for accuracy and deadly performance.<BR> <BR>To all, take care and have a great season, it is fast approaching.<P>~rossi~

I think that with the very wide range of bullets available in .308 caliber it is a merry go round arguement to compare the '06 and 308 in the mid range of bullet weights e.g. 150-165gr. When you extend the bullet weight parameters then I think it imperative to bring other cartridges into the discussion. It borders on the silly to compare the 30/06 loading in the 220 grain bullet to the 308 loading due to the physical limitations of the 308 case. These two cartridges are similar in that they were developed as military cartridges in a mid range bullet and powder loading. Additional developments are an evolution out of the original loadings. As a hunting load, with mid weight bullets, these two are very comparable. One will give on one point while the other will take e.g. a few more fps with more recoil vs lighter recoil and 100 fps less etc. I personally select a chambering that will accomadate a selected range of bullet weights for example my .338 handles the 210-250 weights very well and if I need 250-300gr bullets I will look at another chambering. I like the 7-08 for the 120-140 gr bullets and if I want to push a heavier .284 bullet I'll look at a different chambering. I don't own a .308 caliber chambering but I like the .308 for the 150-165 gr bullets and the '06 for the 165-180 gr bullets. If I wanted to shoot a .308 cal. chambering with the heavier bullets I would look at the larger case chamberings.