Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Is this writer all wet or am I mistaken?

I was doing some research tonight on the 9.5x57 and the 1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer and came across this in an article in a 2012 American Rifleman by Cameron Hopkins.

These are quotes from his article.

"The Germans beat the British to the innovation punch with a metric number called the 9.5x57 mm Mannlicher-Schonauer, the first cartridge to feature a belt of brass around its base to headspace the cartridge because it lacked a rim, the usual means to headspace a cartridge in breech-loading firearms like the double rifles so prevalent at the time."

"London gunmaker Holland & Holland was at the forefront of cartridge development. In 1902, the company borrowed the idea of a belt from the 9.5x57 mm and applied it to a new case of its own design, the .375 Belted Rimless Nitro Express. At once perfectly descriptive and also a mouthful to say, the .375 Belted Rimless Nitro Express became better known as the .375 H&H Magnum."

Until I read this I thought I was pretty well versed in the MS chamberings and have never heard the 9.5x57 had a belt nor have I ever seen such a case. The Brits adopted it as the 375 Rimless Express, though not as a belted case and not until after 1910 when it was introduced in the MS. I was under the impression the first belted case from the Brits was the 400/375 and it was the predecessor to the 300 and 375 H&H.

Did I miss something in the annals of cartridge history or is the author mistaken in his research? Seems if he is wrong, the copy editor and editor let some bad information get through.

WTF is he talking about?

Found the below, so the 400/375 was the first and it was built to COMPETE with the 9.5.




The .400/375 Belted Nitro Express was developed to compete with the 9.5×57mm Mannlicher–Schönauer, marketed in the UK and British Empire as the .375 Rimless Nitro Express 2¼ inch.

The cartridge is unique in that it was the first ever cartridge to use a belted rim. The addition of a belt to a rimless cartridge design provided the advantage of allowing for correct headspacing of highly tapered cartridges (an advantage of flanged cartridges) and smooth feeding through magazine rifles

Not so much lacking a rim but lacking a shoulder and
requiring a rim to headspace.

I have quite a few references on cartridges, and none of them mentions a belt on the 9.5x57 Mannlicher-Schoenauer. They do mention, however, the previous H&H round, the .400/.375, and say it appeared in 1905, which would predate the 9.5 M-S.

Does Hopkins state the .375 H&H appeared in 1902, or is that a typo?

Yeah, he's all wet.

Sounds like he's wrong. He should show himself here and apologize

Those quotes were cut and pasted from the article. Here's a link to the article. The article is actually about the 300 H&H but it came up when I was doing some research on the 9.5x57, looking for load data and hunting stories involving the round.

belted article

Amazing. The .375 H&H was introduced in 1912.

Not for nothing but the NRA magazine has always sucked.

I wonder if this actually appeared in the magazine, but instead on thw website. It's only 900 words long, typical of the Internet, and contains so many errors and so much sloppy writing I'd guess it might never have even been read by an editor.

Might check my files of AR's later today.

MD probably has it nailed... I can't find a belt on the 9.5x57's I have....