Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Ethical or not? 1376 yard elk by a 12 year old

Well, speaking strictly for myself, I don't need Mr. Chouinard, you, or anyone else telling me why I hunt. I'm pretty sure I can figure that out for myself. There are lots of different reasons people hunt and not all are as grandiose as "gaining physical and spiritual growth." Some hunt so they can spend time with friends and family. Some just like to get outdoors. Some want to put meat in the freezer, and some really need to put meat in the freezer. The reasons I hunt change over the course of a season, and also change depending on the animals I'm hunting.

To use your terminology, anyone who presumes to speak for all hunters on "why we hunt" has his head firmly up his [bleep].

Nope. I disagree with Ringman on a lot of things, but getting on a soapbox is not something he does. In fact, he's pretty much the opposite when he talks hunting methods, there's not much he objects to.

Well, speaking strictly for myself, I don't need Mr. Chouinard, you, or anyone else telling me why I hunt. I'm pretty sure I can figure that out for myself. There are lots of different reasons people hunt and not all are as grandiose as "gaining physical and spiritual growth." Some hunt so they can spend time with friends and family. Some just like to get outdoors. Some want to put meat in the freezer, and some really need to put meat in the freezer. The reasons I hunt change over the course of a season, and also change depending on the animals I'm hunting.

To use your terminology, anyone who presumes to speak for all hunters on "why we hunt" has his head firmly up his [bleep].

How about learning some woodcraft and stalking skills instead.

Come on, at least get within 500 yards.

Dr_Lou,



Why not say 300 yards?

I believe that marksmanship should be the cornerstone of a good hunter. When and how to apply that is a personal choice.

Killing from a 1000yrds? That's not a hunter, that's an ass-hole.

Hunt for whatever reason you want.

Show me a youtube video of a guy making 1000+yrd shots on elk because times are tough and he needs to feed his family and I'll send you my address and you can send me that soapbox you promised.

All four sentences? Don't know if I'm up to it. BTW, I wrote an article for Colorado Outdoors magazine about those goofy muzzleloader regulations. That's not a subject I'm unfamiliar with. Comparing what is considered a "primitive weapon" (and regulated as such) to modern rifles used for long-range hunting is apples and oranges.

Your post questions whether we have the "political will" to ban scopes or otherwise restrict equipment used on modern rifles. That skips right past the implication (and makes the underlying assumption) that banning scopes is "the right thing to do" and is not happening because our politicians and electorate don't have the will to do it.

So far as I know, there are zero movements afoot to ban scopes, and no pending legislation. So yes, I comprehended your post, and I can unequivocally say that its underlying premise is without basis.

Slashing the federal budget deficit is something that should be done, but we lack the political will to do. Banning scopes for hunting is just a stupid idea espoused by one guy on an internet forum; a solution in search of a problem.

Polesmoker,

The subject of banning LR guns was the question at hand.

I don't see how primitive weapons is apples to oranges.

I never said I was in favor of banning scopes...

Not that I'm promoting shooting elk at 1376 yards.......

I'll bring up the point of terminal performance of a bullet from that range. No matter how accurate a shot is, there comes a distance that a bullet loses enough energy to ethically perform. So beyond the whole accuracy thing, there's the compounded effect of, or rather lack of effect, of the bullet. Never mind the trouble of combining a high BC design and one designed for terminal performance on game.

Even a 338 Lapua like cartridge will essentially be like a 357 magnum around 1000 yards. Just fine if we can place our shot right in the boiler room, but that boiler room of even a large elk shrinks down to about 1 moa from this ultra long range. I know people can shoot those kind of groups, but that happens after adjusting for things only known after test shots! Long range accuracy, at best, is a process. The best sniper with the best training still needs actual real time dope to make a reliable shot at that kind of range. If someone says they can set up, spot the wind, adjust the dope perfectly before the first shot, and hit from a cold bore within 1 MOA of a 1000 yard target with better than 30% odds, I call BS. And until someone can, a gut shot elk with a 357 mag is just as likely as one dropped right there.

Does anyone think a gut shot elk with a 357, without reliable means of immediately tracking it (because you're probably over an hour away), is ethical?

The only way I could see an ethical shot over 1000 yards is with a very powerful cartridge and true adjustments made by a series of shots on a dummy target, before the shot on the game is attempted. This is what the folks in the video did, but after attempting a shot on the elk.

Ringman, I know it was simply two letters turned around and easy to figure what you meant, but the mental picture I got of you sitting around the campfire and signing Kumbaya was worth a pretty good laugh.