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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 366
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 366 |
Fair points, I'm just stating that there does exist limitations to long range performance that are beyond the shooter's control. And I fully understand the sport of long range hunting. But at some point, the pursuit of things that deserve our respect can become irresponsible. As an extreme example, a small minority of people may think dog fighting is sporting. I think we all have a sense to avoid significant risks of losing a wounded animal.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
So, what is the prognosis...have we decided who is allowed to hunt yet?
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 410
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 410 |
Wildcat, can you reconcile these two statements? If when and how a hunter applies marksmanship is simply a personal choice, then how is it that a hunter making that personal choice is an ass-hole?
Good question, there's two parts to this right? Can you and should you. The "should you" is at question here. I have stated that I think taking the 1376yrd shot doesn't respect the animal or the sport, even if it does turn your crank or sell a product(hence earning the derogatory adjective). For the guys that say I'm preaching or whatever fine, lets hear why long range killing of a trophy elk is the right thing to do? From their perceptive how does that honor the hunter and the hunted? Is that fair chase? Is hunting more about doing whatever you want regardless of the consequences as long your enjoying yourself, spending time with family, being outdoors, etc?
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 410
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 410 |
JSTUART,
Outcome of discussion unknown, so keep your head down if you hear gunfire in the woods.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
JSTUART,
Outcome of discussion unknown, so keep your head down if you hear gunfire in the woods. Jesus man I am married, keeping my head down is ingrained habit!
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Wildcat, can you reconcile these two statements? If when and how a hunter applies marksmanship is simply a personal choice, then how is it that a hunter making that personal choice is an ass-hole?
Good question, there's two parts to this right? Can you and should you. The "should you" is at question here. I have stated that I think taking the 1376yrd shot doesn't respect the animal or the sport, even if it does turn your crank or sell a product(hence earning the derogatory adjective). For the guys that say I'm preaching or whatever fine, lets hear why long range killing of a trophy elk is the right thing to do? From their perceptive how does that honor the hunter and the hunted? Is that fair chase? Is hunting more about doing whatever you want regardless of the consequences as long your enjoying yourself, spending time with family, being outdoors, etc? Because its legal. Who said anyone had to honor anything. I've shot a LOT of animals without having honor or thrill of the hunt etc... involved. It was harvesting meat. Hunting if you will. Shooting if you won't. Not that I"d do what was done personally unless I'd taken a zero shot, unless I TOTALLY was understanding the conditions... and there are some days like that. Having shot an appx 10 inch group the other side of 1800 yards that was a 3 shot group, its very workable. First round that was not "in the group" and corrected to drop 3 more in as quickly as I could on target..... its possible. But then most don't dedicate enough time to any of this long stuff to have a clue really as to what they are doing. I do stand by my personal thoughts that 200 is to far for most. Or far enough, heck 100 is to far for many. Never stopped any or many of them... I still say a screwed up 100-200 yard shot has a LOT more potential to be a bad hit than a LONG shot where if you miss something, you are likely to MISS totally rahter than just be off a hair... but what would I know.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,252 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,252 Likes: 14 |
Is hunting more about doing whatever you want regardless of the consequences.... Nice try but no one has said anything remotely like that. And if you want to go the "fair chase" route, how long does a shot have to be before it's no longer fair chase?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
How close is to close because you can scare the animal before you kill it.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213 |
random thoughts -
I wonder if they located the elk at closer range then had to move farther away in order to make the video they wanted.
Seems at odds with teaching anyone anything. Wouldn't you typically start with fundamentals, i.e., begin with the building blocks and gradually move to the fine points and skills. From the 'why' to the 'how'.
Seems like the great animal is secondary to the show. Not about the bull at all.
Colorado is attempting to define fair chase as follows. I don't think the video conflicts with this but heads in that direction.
1. A technology or practice that allows a hunter or angler to locate or take wildlife
without acquiring necessary hunting and angling skills or competency.
2. A technology or practice that allows a hunter or angler to pursue or take wildlife
without being physically present and pursuing wildlife in the field.
3. A technology or practice that makes harvesting wildlife almost certain when the
technology or practice prevents wildlife from eluding take.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
I have a major issue with teaching ethics. Always did.
And taught hunter ed in TX for years.
My problem is that ethics varies. And its not something thats anyones business otehr than yours.
Should I tell you who to date? Slut or non slut?
As to fair chase, well that one is going to get really gray.
Where do you draw lines at? We are back to personal things on that issue and it and ethics should be covered ,but left totally up to the individual.
#3 is a point... if I have my 308 with me then how is game going to escape? YOu get my point I hope.
Now if you locate game close and move further off for the shot unless for a clear shot, then I have an issue with you BUT I'm not going to say you can't do it.
It just flat irritates me that those that pick on certain shots, wont' admit its as dangerous for a lot of folks to shoot period, that don't practice, shake, wobble, tremble, use different ammo and so on....
But we'll pick on a minuscule part of the population of hunters or whatever the hell we have to call them these days to no end.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,263
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,263 |
That's some serious shooting. Must have excellent equipment and some practice.
I think it's more unethical to shoot a bear, with it's head in a pile of bait that a "hunter" paid somebody else to set out. Or a cow elk, right off the road, in somebody's pasture during the winter, or a cat bayed in a tree by some dogs, etc.. But to each their own.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
To each their own is the key here.
Me, I'm an ok shooter and have ok gear, but I couldn't do it today since I have not shot since about 2004
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,109 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,109 Likes: 5 |
Usually late season cow hunts are strickly for winter crop damage or reducing herd numbers in areas with over capacity herds where regular hunting seasons are not doing the job. Not too much about hunting .
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,252 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,252 Likes: 14 |
Colorado is attempting to define fair chase as follows.
Alamosa, where can I find more on that? Sounds like it's aimed at drones.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,938 Likes: 71
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,938 Likes: 71 |
That's some serious shooting. Must have excellent equipment and some practice.
I think it's more unethical to shoot a bear, with it's head in a pile of bait that a "hunter" paid somebody else to set out. Or a cow elk, right off the road, in somebody's pasture during the winter, or a cat bayed in a tree by some dogs, etc.. But to each their own. Good Post...
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Usually late season cow hunts are strickly for winter crop damage or reducing herd numbers in areas with over capacity herds where regular hunting seasons are not doing the job. Not too much about hunting .
Lord forbid.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
All four sentences? Don't know if I'm up to it. BTW, I wrote an article for Colorado Outdoors magazine about those goofy muzzleloader regulations. That's not a subject I'm unfamiliar with. Comparing what is considered a "primitive weapon" (and regulated as such) to modern rifles used for long-range hunting is apples and oranges.
Your post questions whether we have the "political will" to ban scopes or otherwise restrict equipment used on modern rifles. That skips right past the implication (and makes the underlying assumption) that banning scopes is "the right thing to do" and is not happening because our politicians and electorate don't have the will to do it.
So far as I know, there are zero movements afoot to ban scopes, and no pending legislation. So yes, I comprehended your post, and I can unequivocally say that its underlying premise is without basis.
Slashing the federal budget deficit is something that should be done, but we lack the political will to do. Banning scopes for hunting is just a stupid idea espoused by one guy on an internet forum; a solution in search of a problem. Polesmoker, The subject of banning LR guns was the question at hand. You said it couldn't be enforced. I used muzzleloaders as an example and said they could place similar restrictions on rifles. I don't see how primitive weapons is apples to oranges. It is a tool used to take game animals that the government regulates. Pretty simple to see the similarities. I never said I was in favor of banning scopes, only that it could technically be done and would solve the issue of 1000 yard kills. You need to relax a bit. Maybe try some of that Colorado green? Simply curious. If you keep scopes off MZ rifles, then what distance does that limit shots to basically?
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213 |
Colorado is attempting to define fair chase as follows.
Alamosa, where can I find more on that? Sounds like it's aimed at drones. Here you go. I think drones were on their mind for sure. http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Commission/2016/March/Item_3-Draft_Policy_Fair_Chase.pdfYou can go a lot of different ways with this. Seems to outlaw high fences. Even low fence ranches, or RFW, with 100% success maybe require no skill and an outcome that is virtually certain. Some would argue that any scoped rifle provides an unfair advantage. What about pulling up the live cam from a nearby ski resort on your smartphone?
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,252 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,252 Likes: 14 |
Simply curious. If you keep scopes off MZ rifles, then what distance does that limit shots to basically?
Depends on the hunter and the sights but in my estimation, for most somewhere around 150 or even less.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,252 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,252 Likes: 14 |
Interesting, thanks. Any idea of when that was written?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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