Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Professional dog trainer - Worth it?

Sam,

Dog training is much like raising kids, there are a number of different paths one can take and, if successful, is one which the user will believe in. The trick is to realize there is no single "best" way for all dogs ( or kids) and it pays to learn as much and as widely as possible. In this way one can change and adopt to what the pupil needs to bring out the desired results.

There is no one way to accomplish this as there are many different needs and even in a single subject such as hunting, there are marked differences between classes such as pointing dogs and retrievers. One is best served to keep an open mind and study other methods and techniques as it is likely one will find something useful and easier for you and your pupil to understand. It's why there are many training books for both dogs and kids.

I have only seen 1 horse show person in all of the trials I have gone to.

Depends on the venue.... Cover dog trials, I believe, are all wild bird trials. All of the Championships run in the Praries on chickens and sharptail are wild bird trials. Weekend 30 minute trials tend to be run on throw down birds. So it really depends on the venue you are competing in. NSTRA for instance, is run on pen raised birds. But many people don't consider NSTRA real trials either.

I have only seen 1 show horse person at a trial ever.

Have gone to a few trials and will go to others. However I could never get into them, mainly because the judging is often extremely subjective and the best Dog doesn't always win because of it.

That being said the vast majority of participants are fine individuals. Douchbags are everywhere and easy to ignore where ever you find them.

True that^^^^^^^^

Mine seem to be triggered by their food dishes...which are no where near the size of a horse....

I would suggest the book Gun Dog by Richard Wolters it is so common sense it will be the best 15 bucks youve spent it a long time. DK

Not to start a complete pissing contest, but please, NO! Wolters was not a dog trainer! This subject has been hashed out numerous times. Choose a book by George Hickox, Dave Walker, Delmar Smith, Rick or Ronnie Smith, or even the Perfect Start/Perfect Finish videos, pick any of them, but DONT use the Wolters book.

As a Toller owner I can tell you to do it yourself.

They are wicked smart, just get bored easily, so make the training sessions short and fun.

My first Toller (Maggie) was a great retriever on duck, pheasant, chuckar and quail.

All the Tollers I have seen are soft, and a heavy had with set you back weeks. Make it fun, positive and short and both you and the pup will have a great time.

Never hunted around a Toller, but guessing they are a flushing/retriever type Dog.

If you are going to spend the money and time, then I would be looking at a flushing Dog trainer, think English Springers vs one who specializes in pointers. Same thing with books and videos, concentrate on those that work with the flushers/retrievers.

Google "Total Retriever Training" by Mike Lardy. I used his program on 7 labs. Richard Wolters never trained a dog, Jack Jagoda trained Richards labs.

Doc

Doc

The first thing I learned when I took my GSP to basic obedience was he wasn't the one who needed the training.

The first thing I learned when we started hunting is he's a lot better at finding stuff than I am at hitting it.

a good retriever trainer is worth his weight in gold. having self trained and had pro trained dogs I'm not ashamed to say the pro trained dogs were better performers than the ones i trained myself.
Here's where i saw the most difference-when i duck hunt my dog is a tool I use to recover game. once a bird is down i send my dog and then go back to hunting, i don't sit and stare at him ooh'ing and ahh'ing. i send him and expect him to do his job while i keep calling for myself and guests.
My pro trained dogs did just that-they performed like workers and did everything adequately. my self trained dogs needed my attention more in order to accomplish the same task. Not having the resources available that a pro has for training cannot be overemphasized.

The downside i have found is that all trainers (retriever trainers) seem to be used to labradors. when you hit them with a non-traditional breed that may require a different style of training they seem to get lost. i have seen it when getting a chesapeake trained and also with my current Boykin. I would think you'll run into the same with a Duck Toller unless you find someone with Toller experience.

I do not want to hunt with my dogs if I don't train them. It is a partnership and I take pride in teaching them and learning from them. The dogs I have trained may not be great or perfect, but I never had anyone hunt with me that wasn't eager for me to have my dogs along the next time.

To me asking a pro to train your dog is like asking someone else to rear your children. Educate yourself, take a seminar, read, talk with others who own and hunt with your breed and take the dog hunting more than you can afford. Dogs, like children, are pretty forgiving of the mistakes we make raising and training them. At the end of the day you can claim all the credit for how your dog turned out...even if most of it belongs to the dog.

Perry

I just tuned in to this thread.
Wow.....
From my experiences, there's some truth, and quite a bit of bullshjt going on here.
First, as you old members here, know I bought a started dog , with the basics done already, and know through my thread, that Trap and I are now running master and finished levels in hunt tests.
Is he totally self trained, nope. Did I take him to the top levels, yep.
Field trials , a hunting dog does NOT make.
I hunted with a dog that passes master tests easily, and gets invites to the master nationals every year.
It's a pos hunting dog. It's a robot.
The owner can brag all he wants about his ribbons, but the dog hasn't a clue how to be a duck and goose dog.
Heck, the dog wouldn't even pick a goose up.

Do I know what I'm doing ?
Nope...
Do I try ?
Yep.
Is Trap perfect ?
Nope.
Does Trap retrieve most everything that falls from the sky or even shot ?
Yep.
Is he my best friend, and we spend 24/7 together ?
Yep.
Does he learn what is expected of him with this much togetherness ?
Yep.
Did he get some discipline with an e collar when he didn't do what he knew to do ?
Yep.
Did it hurt him ?
Nope.
Did he learn there is a consequence for not doing what he was told to do, and refused ?
Yep.
Does he wear an e collar now ?
Nope.
I can see a pro Trainer doing basics and up to whatever you pay for, but, to bond, it takes being together and becoming a team.
The dog also needs real life experiences. It can have all the training in a controlled environment it can stand, but won't have common knwledge, so to speak, of what it takes to be a real hunting companion.

Shameless brag.

So are you saying ribbons are important, or not important?

No.
It just shows a dogs capability to be trained.
The balance is a hunting dog that is under control, can be sent on blind retrieves, and you don't have to throw rocks for them to retrieve downed birds.
Training is one side, in the field experience is the other. Combined, is a great companion.

Which ever way you go, keeping your Dog in shape to hunt should be a priority; it doesn't happen with a daily walk around the block.

There's a big difference between retrievers and pointers when it comes to the hunting/trial world. Pointing dog trials are much less controlled, especially in wild bird trials. In the pointing dog world, the birds do much of the training, and that's why sending your dog off to a Pro can be such a huge advantage. Wild birds make a bird dog in the pointer world. Since most of use can't spend several months each year in the praries chasing wild birds, the only other option is sending your dog with s pro.

Many don't understand the difference between average, good and better than good. Saturday some of us had a fun day with the Dogs and shot some planted Chukars. Toby had flushed one out and it was shot. We were finished and perhaps 30minutes later a friend who is serious about his Dogs came around with one of his pointers. We were standing around BS'ing and someone looked back. Around 20yards away from where the Bird was flushed, the Dog was locked up solid while none of were paying attention. He had to practically drag him away. That Dog wasn't about to bust what he thought was a valid contact. He trains his own Dogs, but a good Dog combined with smart constant training is why it played out the way it did.

I wouldn't consider the above senerio good bird work, especially on planted birds. But it could be been used as a good training situation.

Tell me why.