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I recently ran across my Nosler Reloading Guide #4. These were printed in 1996.

I always thought Gail Root's max loads were pretty anemic and he often shot them out of seldom seen barrel lengths, but this old manual is now a treasure of a different kind. Every caliber has a forward written by a well-known gun writer or personality. I noticed Mule Deer wrote forwards for the 6.5x55 and the 30-30. He worked for Grey's back then.

Most of the (other) big names gave their thoughts on one or more calibers and told of their experiences with them. They did a nice job. Rounding these guys up and getting them to write about a cartridge must have aged Bob Nosler 10 years.

A lot of the people aren't around anymore. Bob Petersen, Jeff Cooper, John Nosler, and many others I'm not sure what happened to.

20 years seems like yesterday, but a lot has changed.

I have the #4 also. I really like Nosler bullets and have always enjoyed reading the caliber forwards.

Thanks for the reminder... I pulled my Nosler #4 guide down off the shelf over the reloading bench and started going through it. It's pretty interesting, haven't looked at it for years. Probably because the Nosler #5 & #6 are up there also, along with #3 which I'm sure hasn't been looked at in even more years. Time for a trip down memory lane.

I have all of the Nosler manuals except the first--which like a dummy I gave to a friend after the second was published. But I bet he could be talked out of it by a trade for the most recent edition....

Got em all. There are some great reads in the different editions. Interesting to note how the data changes from one edition to another. Some of the old Speer manuals were on the warmish side back in the day.

The data for the old Speer manuals was worked up in the same way many handloaders still work up loads--by adding powder until the brass or rifle show signs of distress, then reducing the powder charge "a little."

Speer purchased copper-crusher pressure equipment pretty early on, but apparently nobody in the company could figure out how to work it correctly. It does produce pretty accurate results, but requires FAR more preliminary measurements than piezo-electronic testing, the current state of the art, which still requires considerable preparation. So the old Speer manuals were the result of "working up" loads in factory rifles, which vary considerably in chamber/bore dimensions--and the loads were also worked up in widely varying conditions, especially temperature.

My first manual was a Hornady (about 1974). The max load for my 7 Rem Mag with 160 grain bullets (which I still use) is like 4 grains over the Nosler max. This is with 4831. Hornady never delineated between H and IMR in those days. Simpler times.

Do you use Nosler or Hornady bullets with the load? The difference in pressure between the Partition and Interlock is considerable, though seating depth of course has an effect too.

The other factor is that for some reason (perhaps eroded throats, especially in earlier data) 7mm Remington Magnum data has always varied considerably.

Partitions only. 36 years ago I had no knowledge of different bearing surfaces, etc .... Don't have much knowledge about it now, either.

I DID work up the load slowly -- but no doubt it's very hot. 3090 fps on 2 different Chronys. Brass life is good. Nothing feels sticky.

Back then, for no good reason, loads were all maxed out in my little arsenal.

That sounds like a good velocity!

For many years my standard method of loading 7mm RM's was to start with 60 grains of H4831 and 160 Partitions until the chronograph hit 3000+. Some rifles only required 62 grains but others took as much as 66.

I think the first manual I ever saw was PO Ackley's, which Dad had on hand. Here there be some warmish loads

Dad had memorized PO's load for the .22-250, which was a 55gr bullet under a now-unprintable charge of 3031. Of course, that was before the round's adoption by Remington, and all the brass was fairly thin, re-formed 250 Savage. Hodgdon's top load for it now is 62,500 psi, and this one is above that level. About the time I hit college I showed Dad the newer load manuals, and he backed down some from Ackley's data.

Dad's rifle (a sporterized 98 Mauser) has some nice metalwork. I think it was built by McGowan using a Douglas barrel, and grouped well. His was actually stamped ".22 Varminter", which had a slightly different shoulder angle than Remington's version.

Good times

Larry -

My first loading manual was the Lyman 45th edition, copyright 1970.

My second was Speer # 9, copyright 1974. This one & # 10 are on the discard shelf in my garage.

My third was Hornady Vol II, copyright 1973. It still is on shelf in loading room.

My BEST is Nosler # 7.

From here I go online.




May fav is Bob Hagel, "Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter"


Using Hornady Vol II & Hagel.. I approach max loads carefully.
Hagel used the traditional pressure signs.

For years I used Hagel's book and 'never' locked up a bolt or blew up a rifle. Discretion is prudendial


Jerry

I found my old Hornady Handbook Volume II from 1973. The 7 Mag bullet they used was a 162 grain boat tail HP. They listed a Max load of 68.4 grain of "4831". My load is 67 grains of IMR4831 and a 160 grain Partition. In 1980, when I got this rifle, I wanted to load 175 grain Partitions, but at that time the 175 grain Partitions were roundnose -- which I didn't care for..

I found my old reloading notes, also. 3094 fps average for 5 shots. I rented one of the early Chronys from a LGS for the test. It had paper sun shades, which I promptly blew to smithereens with the muzzle blast. Finally got them glued back together, after which I moved the Chrony a good bit further away before further testing.

I also found my notes from my (then) Deer bullet loads in this rifle, the 140 grain Sierra. 70 grains of IMR4831 gave an average of 3304 fps.

I later decided that this 7 Mag was too much weight and noise for Deer and Antelope and read an article in Rifle about the 6MM-06. I had a lightweight one made up with a Douglas #2 barrel on a LH 700 action with a Brown Precision stock. Still use it with great satisfaction. That old Hornady manual gave me loading info on the 240 Weatherby, which got me started, again with IMR4831. Hovever, I later switched to RL22. Not a big difference; but it produces a bit more velocity.

One magazine editor, who has since gone to the Big Loading Room in the Sky, told me Bob Hagel regularly damaged rifles while working up loads.

The problem with "watching" pressure signs, then backing down loads a little (as Hagel suggested) is pressures will vary not just from rifle to rifle but environmental conditions. Which is why ammo and rifle manufacturers prefer more margin for error and environment than Hagel often used.

Larry -

In Hornady Vol II, '4831' was 'surplus' military. Surplus was definitely slower 'burning' powder.


They distinguished Dupont's by/with IMR, and Dupont used that designation. Check IMR 4895, IMR 4320, IMR 4350 &....

in Vol. III they used IMR 4831 & then H 4831.

Unless I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure.

Jerry

That would explain it --- Bet you are correct.

I 'later' found out that Bob did damage some rifles. However back then, pressure testing equipment wasn't available AS it is today.

He WAS finding 'over' pressure loads.

Also as I know you know, AND I found out later...there have been some very major differences from lot/lot variations in powder.

As I approached maxed charges, I increased by only 1/2 gr increments.

I can honestly say that I have ONLY blown 2 primers. BTW it came from Horn. Vol II--270 Win--130--H 450 **60** grains of powder. Again from 2 different lots.

Caution cannot be over stressed, no matter who/what the loading source is.


Jerry

I've blown a few more primers than that--but then I was following Hagel's tradition of experimentation:-)

Plus, I screwed up a few times!

I enjoy reading the information other than loading data contained in vintage reloading manuals. In developing a load for a new rifle I tend to stick to middle of the chart level loads, selecting the powder that gives the best velocity. When I find a load that groups acceptably I'm satisfied, I don't try to tighten groups by increasing powder charge. Though I have loaded bullets from most manufacturers, Nosler and Sierra are the bullets I have found best in my .257 Roberts and .35 Whelen. Never have tried any of the premium bullets now available and probably won't as I don't get the opportunity to hunt with centerfire rifle that much anymore.

There is little doubt that some of the old manuals were a lot less conservative than modern manuals. Most loads in todays manuals can be considered to be, under normal conditions, safe. The same could not be said for some of the older sources. About the time I started loading for my first centerfire rifle (a #4 Lee Enfield), I got Ackleys Volume One. I saw a load for Blc2 and a 150 which looked pretty good and we had a bunch of Blc on hand so I loaded up five of them and the first stuck tight enough I had to use a rod to help open it up. It was then that I realized Ackley's books were more of a bedside reader than a technical manual. From then on, I stuck to the Speer manual which, though some of the loads for other cartridges were on the wam side, had sound data for the 303. It wasn't until 1971 that I felt the need for another manual and I picked up a lyman 45 and, a couple years later, a Speer Number nine. By now, I considered all manuals to be interesting reading more than sources of data.
One manual, in particular, struck me as being more fictional than any other. This was the Herters reloading manual. This was one book which certainly never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.
When I built my own 35 Whelen, I looked to the one manual I had with data for it; the Speer Number One. From it I got a load consisting of 57 grains of 3031 with a 250. You won't see this load listed in any of todays manuals and with good reason. Nonetheless, I started at 54 (already warm by todays standards)and worked up to 57. It seemed OK and shot very well so I used it for two or three years. The thing was, I had never fired this load at any temperature above about 20 F. I had worked it up in January in Alberta when it was about ten below and sighting in each year took place in late September on what was always a cold day. Then I moved to a different area where (a) elk season opened early and (b) it was just plain warmer. So I sighted in on a toasty day (about 94) in August. For the first time, there was a little resistance when opening the bolt and the mark of the ejector slot was clearly visible. I backed of to 54 grains and went to town and bought a new loading manual (Hornady). I occasionally look at the old Speer manual and there are an awful lot of load in there that I wouldn't even want to try in some of my rifles. Little wionder that, for a time, reloading was considered to be a little risky and a bit of a dark art. GD