Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Scope Tracking: Tall Target Test with Bryan Litz

"Bryan Litz, ballistician, author and president of Applied Ballistics, says, "Before you go to long range you need to to some short-range work." Watch his walk-through of the "Tall Target Test" and learn how to get your sights properly aligned, zeroed and tracking vertically."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Wf0Cuwwi8&list=PL603s8BffkAWVjJOFBYIbIoglYy4VlLtb

Interesting...

Regards, Matt.

YES that is important. I also purchased his videos, which in it they show how to do that tall target test. I just buy a nightforce personally and confirm at the range. one of the things that is very useful to me is the ballistic calibration. I shot groups at 600, 800 and 1000, I entered all my info including the correct enviromentals, even the direction I was shooting. my groups were slightly high even being 5 inches high at 1000 yards. I put in my actual observed groups and their POI into the ballistic software and it adjusted my bullet speed by about 20 fps. now my apps output is calibrated to actual observed data, a couple weeks later I used the app and dumped a coyote at 991 yards. without the app and the info I learned from applied ballistics that would have been a luck shot.

connection at 600 yards it way different than doing it at 800 or even more so 1000 yards. That 20 fps difference in my load translates to 5 inches in POI shift at 1000 yards. it just goes to show getting a first round hit at that range isn't as easy as everyone would have you think.

Very good info from Bryan!

Good video.

The funny part was when Litz shot the rifle with the Leupold benchrest scope on it and found a 4% error in vertical tracking, I immediately thought:

"John Burns would say he did not know what he was doing and he should send the scope to him, just like every other time a Leupold does not track properly".

Funny stuff Makay! I think he's probably still pissed about me asking if the Toyota PU was his "Technical."

The video was half-assed at best,which was hardly "surprising".

Firstly,I've never seen much more than a half-dozen LRF's at the same time,give ANYWHERE near a 4% different readings,at 1K,upon the same target. Typically,1% is a "bunch",with (6) different Operators. Hint.

Secondly,I enjoyed that for all the vaunted "Precision" of the premise,that 100yds couldn't even be determined as the starting point. Laughing!

Thirdly,nary a word was muttered in regards to parallax,which is a greater culprit with the number of X's extolled,than the problems "solved".

Fourthly,the Agg's were beyond paltry,despite that which looked like favorable 90-some yard conditions,with a High BC Centerfire. Laughing!

Fifthly,nothing was mentioned in regards to ES/SD,which would have skewed things to a greater percentage of the crux,than the focus of intent...in regards to lineal extrapolations in the vertical realm

Sixthly,the erector(s) were hardly "tested" and it was a Betty Crocker "set it and forget it" scenario,which is THE most forgiving.

Seventhly,90-some yard POA/POI correlations were abysmal,given the crux of the "test".

'Course,I didn't have the temerity to suffer the full expanse of the video and undoubtedly there are more glaring shortcomings,that escaped my having to suffer through 'em.

Now if only because I've beat the drum more than a fhuqk of a lot,there are VASTLY superior means to quantify erector integrity,less soooooooo much Dumbfhuqktitude.

Opening move is to correlate engagement distance,to erector travel and set up a diagnostic board that exceeds that MINIMUM requirement. 30 MOA with a 308,ain't much...granting the auspice of a sane zero. Hint.

Following move,is to not do the erector ANY fhuqking favors. Dial the prescribed dope,go back to zero and repeat the scale a few times...then gun an intermediate poke,to corroborate gross erector travel/repeats. BFD to dial and gun a trio,on the same setting. Hint.

Rinse/repeat and follow suit,chasing parallax as required and then weigh the diagnostic board's revelations. Be honest with position,abilities and mechanical aptitude of a given platform and extrapolate in kind.

I find 100yd paper all but 100% useless,but do quantify erector mechanics in sucha manner,as it precludes atmospherics.

Typical route of travel and a summary I recap often. Montucky OEM 223 spout punched 223AI(setback and POSITIVE headspace),with R/P hulls,400's and 50V-Max fireforming Smooch. Impetus being to quantify a new Lot of powder's behavior,in regards to the last.

Bottom square being the aiming point,the lateral line being square and running wayyyyyyyyyy upwards for erector travel determinations and HUGE erector travel inputs dialed between shots. It is rather comfy,to realize ACTUAL 100yd groups MUCH smaller in relative Agg sizing,than a 90-some yard video's attempt at same. Hint.

Things get MUCH warmer and fuzzier,when the erector has had over 1000 MOA dumped into it,between EACH of those shots. HINT.




I've never seen tall paper.(grin)



Never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't.

Hint..................(grin)

Hmmmm.....

Who to listen to?

A guy with polka dot rifles that speaks in pig latin, or a guy that was a rocket scientist and is now the world's foremost ballistics engineer?

I just can't decide

Is that pig latin? I thought it was an Alaskan pigmy dialect and "hint" an onomatopoeias for a nervous tic— rather than a term unique to the pint-sized pigeon.

Either way, it's all gibberish to me...

Yep, tough call.

Much like the thread where the little guy was schit talking
none other than the famous Marine sniper Chuck Mawhinney.

Mawhinney holds the record for the most confirmed kills by a USMC sniper, with 103 confirmed kills and 216 probables.

Once again, tough call..

That said, I did find a place where the little guy's "skill sets" might be helpful:


http://www.santharia.com/races/dwarven_employment.htm


That place, or if anyone ever needs to go deep into the Misty Mountains, looking for middle earth, he might make a good guide, as long as you were willing to walk slowly.

big stick, you can't type legibly. I would suggest you write a book, well actually with some help, on proper long range rifle setup, since you know everything.

as for me I will keep watching and ready litz stuff. there isn't anyone I know of that has tested more of this stuff with specialized equipment than him. I also don't think too many people have had access to a bullet makers testing equipment and range. Litz made this video for your average enthusiast to get them on target at long ranges with more than a luck shot and with more than simply sighting in at that particular range on a given day, That is easy to do. lets take the rifle in the field into a place you have never been, then lets see how you do.

The info I learned from him several years ago I was able to take and make long range kills on yotes in the high desert wide open spaces of wyoming. a CDS turret and a chronograph will probably have you shooting decent out to 600 yards. if you want to hit at 800 and beyond you must have the knowledge that litz teaches or its just a luck shot. or you had the use of sighters and adjusted your scope for that location and conditions. long range hunters these videos are a must! along with the app usage. if you intend to shoot beyond 600 yards.

Nightforce for the win!

I watched that the other day, going to try it on the weekend. He does a great job explaining it.

It'd be a good time to drink beer with the two of em and listen to them hash it out though...

Litz seems like the kind of guy that would take Sticks criticism well. And Larry seems like the kinda guy who shoots a smidge and takes notes.

I think Larry shoots more than people will give him credit for.
I also think that he may know more than he is leading on as well.

The video, although somewhat informative for those with little to no knowledge on scopes, didn't really verify proper tracking of a scope other than making sure the scope moved along a vertical line... It did give a rough value for the specific scopes turret value but again over a broad range...

There was no verification that when 5, 10, 15, 20 etc moa was dialed that the scope actually moved in those increments... The second scope tested which appears to be a leupy is known to get worse as one dumps more adjustment into the erector and are well known to not adjust in true moa... No testing of reticle shift when the power ring is adjusted from high to low power and back along with a parallax adjustment... No RTZ test after shots fired and elevation dialed... Very little to prove that either scope could or could not track properly...

But of course I'm not a rocket surgeon so what I say doesn't mean schidt...

'hunter,

You be CERTAIN,to not let facts sway that...which you "think" you "know".

Laughing!...............















kingston,

You Whining CLUELESS Kchunt,I enjoy the inherent hilarity of your oblivious Stupidity,as you talk out your ass while you Pretend a first fhuqking clue. Congratulations?!?

Be certain to find me "mistaken" and I'll delight in rubbing your nose even further,in your Amazing STUPIDITY. Hint.

Just sayin'.

Bless your heart.

Laughing!.................















McQueen Sagepuss,

You be SURE to copy/paste any/everything you think I'm "mistaken" about and I'll happily take the time to use words little enough,that even someone as fhuqking STUPID as you,can follow along. Go for the thoat,you AMAZINGLY Stupid Fhuqk and rest assured it will be fhuqking FUNNY. Hint.

I'll feign my GREAT "surprise",that you gave ALL things The Rifle an exceptionally wide berth. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart,you Drooling Dumbfhuqk.

Laughing!..............















'cowboy,

That were really compelling "Testimony". Were you able to cite someone who "knows" and "does" less than you,I'd be VERY fhuqking impressed. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Here I was thinking that CDS was the end all/be all?!?

Bless your heart.

Laughing!.................















'223,

NightFarce typically banks SFP and trite erector travel,in conjunction with reticles that are largely useless.

Was finger fhuqking a SHV 5-20x the other day and laughing at what an EPIC piece of fhuqking schit it was.




It were the first one I'd ever seen.




Though I didn't have anything to compare it to.

Laughing!...................















'goat,

You'd think that watching someone "sneak up" on a glass of fhuqking water,was "great"...due your "knowledge","experience" and "results". Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart.

Laughing!.................















'bean,

I'm afforded the luxury of not being forced to guess...which is admittedly,the MOST "unfair" of advantages".

While I'd hate to outshoot a gal with her own rifle,I've seen me do it,daily.(grin)

The ONLY way to pinpoint erector faults,is to mix it up and not sugar coat schit on the red carpet. BFD on 30 MOA erector swings,if only because a Fixed Fhuqker wears 36MOA of Etched Options on it's windshield. Hint.

I'm very often making 100+ MOA erector swings to correlate POA/POI intersections and them repeats are what are warm and fhuqking fuzzy.

Purty easy to dope huge erector swings in the living room,with a FWB 300S. Easy to nip atmospherics there and extrapolate tracking/repeats,in conjunction with recoil fending. Hint.(grin)



Never been tough to cypher,who shoots and who don't.

"Luckily" however,Imagination and Pretend are FREE,so The Do Nothing Gang can "afford" to "contribute".

Laughing!..............















'zaga,

Facts are unsettlin' to Cross-Eyed Droolin' Dumb Fhuqks...though I enjoy their doing their BEST. Laughing!

Hell,I might even take the time to Feesh,on top of gunning 50+ pounds of powder a year.



Laughing!..............

Exactly right. But you and I both know info was left out by design..He does try to make a living on this after all.

Bryan has books to sell..Even a good guy on the horn, if one was so inclined.

Just sayin, he aint selling snake oil. Pretty good guy,imo. If you have info to the contrary let us know. (sincerely)

Stick, Lots was left out on purpose, but you knew that already.

Tell me you havent picked up anything from Litz in the last 10 years, or used some of his literature in your print here..

be careful. "hint"

Tell the tale of your Leupold heartbreak story again..I always liked that one..you [bleep] rube

The troubles are,lotsa things that matter were overlooked,to focus on Fluff instead. Nobody with a SHRED of savvy was/is thinking "I'll buy the video,because it's prolly got some Secret Magic info in it". Laughing! The poor cat was doing the best he could,which ain't much force,if only obviously.

It'd be tough to malign the cited Reupold 25X,IF it repeated and that was not resolved nor close. I could personally care less,if I had to pad a come-up or gun it shy,to realize POA/POI intersections that repeated. Though I'd not suffer a Fixed 25x glass with only 40MOA of total erector travel,as a LR messenger...no matter who made the fhuqking thing. Hint. Laughing!

So while I've zero doubt that the thrust was genyouwhine,it was a shoddy/haphazard affair,that added more things to the list,than it checked off and that weren't by design,though it is funny.

I really liked all the bubble level bullschit and then a cursory "that schit is easy to fix" remark,on how the levels need re-leveled. Wayyyyyyyyy funny schit!

1-poke each at say 30,60 and 90MOA are gonna tell me much more about the integrity of the platform,than a sloppy group at (1) erector setting. Doubly so when copious erector travel is dumped up/down the scale,prior to sending each of those 3 individual shots. It's an accident waiting to happen,when one coddles an erector and anything that needs coddled,simply goes down the road.

Never been tough to cypher who shoots and who don't.

Hint.....................