Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 7/08's lack of popularity?

Hope shot a 120 gr TTSX at a MV of about 3120 fps. 45.0 gr Varget.

That's a good bullet, always wondered at what speed they will expand well enough.

Brad - you might say many handloaders inc. myself load to what is safe in their rifle. Yes, if you want more than 2800-2900 with a 140, you need a larger case. My load was pulled from an early manual, though again I used partial sized cases. They flattened primers no doubt. Very accurate, used the same charge with IMR4064 for a tad better accuracy, and same speed.

Today - I would use WW brass as it holds about 1.5 gr more. Not sure about the Euro brass capacity i.e. Norma/Noz etc.

C9 - sounds like you have a winning combo! Guessing you are using a Noz of sorts? Should be deadly, and accurate. Perhaps as good or better than a 162 downrange started slower?

But back to Brad's point, given all the talk about speeds.

My goal is 1) Safety 2) Accuracy 3) Realized potential - safely.

The ONLY time I ever had any issues with reloads and "Pressure" was using some Mil-Surp 308 brass necked down, either had gas leak around the primer or perhaps pierced one. I was using my 700V as I recall, a little smoke from the action area was all.

Safety is always a priority when handloading.

Add the 264 Win Mag to that list, some of the loads I see are scary. Pretty much any wildcat get hot rodded especially Ackley improved rounds and the like.

Lapua Scenar L

Won't hang w/ a 162 way out there, but works real well for what I use it for. Accuracy with the Scenar's in both fire form loads and AI loads is exemplary. Playing with some Cutting Edge 120's at the moment....

David

J.B or anyone else in the know... any idea why the lack of popularity? [/quote]

My guess is that local hunting conditions play a role. When I was shopping for a 7-08 a few years ago I went to a BPS in deep South Texas (where shots at deer can be long) and the guy behind the counter looked at me like I was from Mars when I asked if he had any 7-08s in stock. I went to San Antonio (where Hill Country hunters rarely shoot much past 100 yards) and the BPS had several in stock. The guy who escorted me to the door complimented me on a fine choice and that the 7-08 was his favorite.

Hey goat -

I haven't followed the 264 closely so I'm not arguing your point.

My observation is simply that the 264 WM has the boiler room for capacity that the 280 & 7-08 does not.

Jerry

While I definitely notice the 7mm RM's impressive muzzle blast, my chronograph is unimpressed with the 7mm RM's velocity increase over the 7-08.

Thats humorous.

You have a 7/08 that does 3050-3100 with a 160 gr? Or 3200+ with a 140?

I know you want to represent yourself as the expert here Bob… No, but I do have a 7-08 that pushes 150 gr bullets at 2800 and a 7mm RM that absolutely maxes out with 150 gr bullets at 2950.

No I don't want to represent myself as an "expert" because there aren't many here that I know of.

So now that we have your smart answer out of the way,....

What barrel with what load only gets 2950 fps? Sample of one I suppose?

Tell me more. Since I have never seen a 7 Rem Mag that was stonewalled at 2950 with a 150......ever.

^^^me either. My 7RM will run over 3K pretty easy while my 280 was mid 29's and my 7-08 runs 2670 with the 162 Amax

Bob-

I admit that my 7mm RM is a dog, and it is a sample of one. It is the only 7mm RM I've ever had. It is a 700 BDL I bought new in 1995- 24" barrel. I hunted with it extensively for 10 years, and filled many tags. In that timeframe I also hunted with the 30-06, 7-08, 280, 338 WM, 6.5x55, and a few others. In 2006 I bought a chronograph. That's when my "great" 7mm RM suddenly became less impressive. The velocities I chronied with my 7mm RM were all slower than "book" velocities. At the same time, the velocities I recorded with my other cartridges were much closer to published velocities.

The 7-08 I achieved 2800 fps with is a 700 Classic- 24" barrel. The load is 150 Sierra BTSP with Sierra's book max of H414. I have 7-08s with 24, 23, 22 21 and 20" barrels (yeah, big 7-08 fan), firing this load ranging from 2680 to 2800 fps. This bullet is hell on deer at these velocities.

My 7mm RM and I have burned through hundreds of bullets and the full gamut of applicable powders. It will not beat 2950 with 150 bullets. It is a dog with 120, 140, 160s as well.

The 7-08 has been my go-to big game hunting round since 2006.

B h -
I waited a little while to see what others might say. All I can tell you is that I and about 5 friends have had 7 Ms and chronoed them for many yrs.

I have no trouble getting 3300 fps w/140s

3100-3160 fps w/150s. And

@3100 w/160s.


The slower burning powders do take more grains / charge but the pay off is higher velocity (speed).

I've used 139/140 gr mostly and I and we get good case life.

I am aware there are 'slow' barrels and you might have one, I don't know and am not saying you do.

I don't know what/whose manuals you use but I suggest that you check a few different ones.

If I can't beat 270 W vel with a 7 M, I'd move it. A friend actually had that happen and he sent that rifle down the road.

I offer this in encouragement and wish you good luck.

Jerry

Best I've been able to do accurately with a 160 is just shy of 3k in my 7 Rem Mag.

2896 with 140 VLD, 2880 with 140 Partition in my 7-08.

Shoot something in the lungs this side of 400 yards with either and it won't know the difference.




P

I figured it was a sample of "one". It usually is.


It's a Rem 700 with a SAAMI spec throat which is the point,and usually the culprit in cases like this. people blame the cartridge when it's the rifle that hamstrings the case all along.

I have seen Rem 700's behave like this. A couple of Rugers, too. And factory ammo with 150 gr bullets is right at 2950 or so.

They run hand loads and top out at 2950-3000 with 150-160 gr bullets, and think the cartridge is a dog.

Then as you see here, others have rifles that easily give the kind of velocities I mentioned and declare .."What's the problem?"....but if your experience is limited to only one rifle you begin to think that the cartridge is a dog and that little cases are almost as fast.

But, things are what they are and a 160 gr bullet at 2950-3000 fps is still faster than we can expect from a 270 or 280 or 7/08....so the gain is still there.

Rifle throated properly or with better barrels will reach that other 100 fps and land squarely in the 3050-3100 fps range.

I saw this issue with the 7 Rem Mag a long time ago. Guys like Bob Hagel and John Wooters did too. The solution was simple....throat it long, seat bullets out and wildcat it....worked like a charm in any Rem 700 we tried it in, and even custom barrels were throated for longer OAL than factory.

Achieving speed was not hard.Have had many 7mm RM's that easily broke 3150 with 150 gr bullets;3200 with 140's and 3050 or so with 160's. Sometimes it also took DB powders too .

Point is...it's the rifle that's the "dog" and not the cartridge. It was screwed out of the gate by rifles that did not take full advantage of its potential.

If I haven
t loaded for 20+ 7 Rem Mags by now I haven't had a single one....so I've been up and down the flagpole with the thing. I just sold one and am down to only one now.

All this messing around with the 7 Rem Mag is why I started down the road of the 7mm Dakota and then the 7mm Mashburn. With those two cartridges all this nonsense comes to an abrupt halt.

Then of course people read tables, tell you those cartridges are "inefficient"....thats funny. Just can't keep some people happy.

Hey Pharm -

You have another example of 270 Win vel from a 7 Mag.
I used to use 140 HBTSP in 270 Win and chrono velocity +/- 3000 fps. That's not out of line w/130s @ 3100 + .

To you and in ref to something Bobin said,

A close friend bought a brand NEW Ruger 77 (tanger) 7 Mag. ALL we could get out of it was the SAME vel as our 270s.

I personally changed EVERY component, 1 at a time, and then in combination, and we NEVER got the vel above 270 Win.

Rifle LEFT. That's the only 1 out of many, I myself have had PLUS friends have had several.

It happens but I won't tolerate it. A 7 Mag WILL do better than a 270 Win.

Good Luck

Jerry

edit to say what I's thinkin

I like the short action version of the 7RM, 7wsm, and it easily exceeds 3100 fps using 150 gr NPT with a 23" barrel. That was my elk load last fall (no shot), and in 2009 when it busted the offside shoulder and exited on a 320-ish yd shot on a 4x4 bull.

Hope used a 7-08AI with a 24" barrel both times and took a 5x5 at 315 yds in 2009, and a very nice 7x8 this past year at 400-ish yds. She used a 140 gr TSX in 2009, and 120 gr TTSX last fall.

To be honest, last fall, I believe that cartridge at that distance with that bullet on that animal was pretty much maxed out. It did the job, but it took a really good shot at a longer than practiced (or expected) distance, after one miss low, to get the animal. I would have preferred a little more margin. God was smiling on us that day.

But for shots beyond 400 yds on an elk, I'd go with a bigger case.

JWALL-

I have used data from Sierra, Hornady, Nosler, Barnes, Lyman, Hodgdon, Alliant, Ramshot, etc.

I've had to use a rubber mallet to get the bolt open after firing Nosler's starting loads!

You got a real freak there!

Bob-

Very interesting- thanks for the informative post. I can't get rid of the darn dog, too many memories were made while hunting with it. Otherwise it would be long gone.

My original point is the 7-08 is a darn efficient cartridge. It suits my needs just fine. I have taken game as close as black bear at 5 yards to mule deer at a lasered 420 yards with a 7-08. It gets the job done nicely running 40 odd grains of powder without excessive muzzle blast.