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It's a cold rainy day here without much to do and even thought the project is not done I can't so much with it until I get access to some shop equipment again on Monday so I thought I would show what progress I have made. Several years ago I purchased a BSA pump 22, I felt it somewhat related to the early Savage 22's because it took a box magazine, something that is now quite common in 22 bolt actions and semi-autos but very rare in pumps - I know of only 3 companies other than Savage that ever made box magazine fed 22 pumps. Unfortunately the gun I bought was missing the magazine (I bought another a few years later, also missing the magazine). I spent a lot of time trying to find an original, or any magazine that might fit, and finally gave up on that. Kiwi recently purchased a gun that had an original magazine and took the time to send me many pictures of the magazine that included details of it taken apart. I finally got a good start on the project. I still have to make some special dies to form the feed lips, the edges of the slot and drill holes for the catch, but I was not going to do any of that until I was sure I had figured all the bend allowances for the body well enough that it would fit. The parts for the bottom are cut. Here is one of the many pictures Kiwi sent me of the his original - I am trying to make the magazine look as much like an original as possible, which makes it much harder. One step was solved when I found a copy of a 1997 CAD 3D program on eBay very cheap, it was a program I used for many years at a place I worked so I just had to do a quick refresher to begin using it. It won't run with new versions of Windows but works well on my old computer using XP. Using Kiwi's drawing and measurements from the gun I drew up the magazine (some in 3D) and also drew flat layouts of the parts - these were converted to .DXF drawings and emailed to a local Laser cutting company to get them cut, by doing this the drawing does not need any dimensions on the complicated curves or even the size, the laser just cuts to the lines I sent them. The drawing is full scale on heavy card paper so I can cut out parts of it to use a templates if needed, I actually cut out and formed a paper magazine body and fit it in the gun to be sure it looked right before I got any metal cut. The body as shown here has been through 6 different forming set-ups that used several custom made dies and still will need at least 3 more operations with more special dies to complete the form, and then a welding operation (now you know why I put this off for so many years)- link to more pictures including 1 video The forming could probably have been done with a vise, a hammer & good pair of pliers but I opted for a 180 ton press-brake capable of forming 10 foot of 1/4" plate - link to more pictures showing all the forming operations
Gene
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Campfire Outfitter
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As always - just fascinating!! Thanks!
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Now I know why no one makes fenders for my 68 Cuda. Wow. That is nice work. Thanks for sharing that with us, Joe.
I'm not greedy, I just want one of each.
Remember Ira Hayes
JoeMartin
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Wow Gene, that's a $1000 magazine!
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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As always Gene, you're the guy. Who else would have taken the time and trouble to complete your journey? One of my neighbors keeps telling me if you need something done I've got a guy. Bricklayers, welders, carpenters, tree fellers he's got a guy. Whenever someone asks me a question about a problem they're having with a .22 pump I tell them I've got a guy. I doubt any of them have ever stepped up to the Campfire and PMed you. I wish you well on your quest for a working magazine.
Go tell the Spartans,Travelers passing by,That here,Obedient to their laws we lie.
I'm older now but I'm still runnin' against the wind
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Looking Very good Gene Must be great to have access to all that equipment and the knowledge to use it Kiwi
One in the hand is better than two in the bush
Graham
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Yes Gene, This is great! You have single-handedly saved another rifle model from going extinct!
"...One Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All"
JeffG
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Very impressive Gene. Will we see a working copy in Wellsboro this July?
Really just amazing.
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed-unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." James Madison
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Looking Very good Gene Must be great to have access to all that equipment and the knowledge to use it Kiwi Having the equipment to make stuff doesn't do any good with out someone putting in the effort to send the information needed to know what to make - thanks for all the time you spent taking measurements & pictures for me. (I know it's been quite a while, I hope you weren't beginning to think your time was wasted!). I hope to have them complete by the end of the week. I had 10 body's and bottoms cut and managed to get 9 good bodies through the operations done so far (bent one backwards, could still make it work, it would just have the slot on the left side). I finished drawing up the follower today but still am considering doing something less involved than coping the original. Here are the BSA's, bottom one has the paper cutout magazine in it and the other a partially completed one (bottom one is also threaded for a suppressor, quite common on guns from England). I probably should have just been happy with the tube fed versions. The estimates on production of the pumps is around 5000 of the tube fed and only about 1000 for the box magazine fed (I don't think I will find much of a market for any extra magazine I might end up with). BSA = Birmingham Small Arms and started in the 1860's. Between wars they started making bicycles and then motorcycles, at one time, when they also had Triumph and Norton, they were the largest manufacturer of motorcycles in the world.
Last edited by GeneB; 05/01/16. Reason: addede another picture & notes
Gene
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You will be surprised Now I'm into the .22 cal collecting there have been the odd request for BSA mags Don't forget NZ is part of the British Commonwealth so a lot of English goods came out here including firearms No I hadn't given up on you I know how long it takes to get time to get pet projects started let alone finished when a person is busy Cheers
One in the hand is better than two in the bush
Graham
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I didn't quite get as far as I though this week, underestimated the problems. I did get one almost complete but had trouble when I curved the rear over to hold the cartridge, I used thicker material than the original (22 Ga, 0.030") to make it easier to weld and the thicker material will need to be thinned at the rear to allow the cartridge to be high enough for the bolt to pick it up. In the example shown I took some material off the front of the magazine so the whole magazine would sit farther up but that did not work well. I have 8 other bodies yet and should get all the rest to work, I think even this one can be fixed to feed well with a little grinding. When I welded them i found my Tig skills seemed to have diminished a little since the early '70's for some reason, I used to weld occasionally every few years, at least once every five or six... The main problem I found was my having eye balls that required tri-focals and trying to see to just seal weld a tight fitting seam when only running 20~25 amps with a 1/16th tungsten, not a very bright or big arc - but I still can see to grind, which a skill that has saved many a poor welder. I did get some bleed through on the weld and will have to also grind the inside rear, as it is now the rims of the test cartridges hang up on the rough spots. I did not get a decent follower made & just have a rather crude one made of a strip of sheetmetal. [img]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa105/GeneBB/BSA%20magazine%20project/first%20complete%20mag/BSA%20%20magazine%20left%20side_zpsakwqtlil.jpg~original[/img] Video of magazine being put in gun Video of magazine being taken apart I did take more picture of how it's done but they are not available yet.
Last edited by GeneB; 05/05/16. Reason: added picture of welds & uncut lips
Gene
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WAY COOL !!!!! I don't believe that there is one in ten thousand that could accomplish a feat like this. Way beyond my skill set .....
John
If you don't like Robert E. Lee, you won't like it on this ranch. JGM
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Damn Gene that is good I'll take my hat of to your skills Cheers Graham
One in the hand is better than two in the bush
Graham
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Campfire Ranger
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That is simply marvelous, Gene! I wouldn't attempt that in a hundred years.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Now you need to make up a pattern for Savage 23s!
"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law" "Klaatu barada nikto"
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Campfire Ranger
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And pre-War Colt Woodsmans, and Savage .45 Autos.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Ah crap, since we are going down this road let's also throw in the High Standard HD Military! Good functioning mags for those buggers are hard to find.
"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle." John Stapp - "Stapp's Law" "Klaatu barada nikto"
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I'm beginning to understand the inflated value of Winchester .22 magazines.
Really a labor of love Gene, and worth every Christmas morning smile you put on a kid's face.
"...One Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All"
JeffG
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I'm gonna add my vote for 99C x 284 magazines
"...One Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All"
JeffG
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I have 3 of these rifles and only one magazine. Their would be demand for custom made magazines
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