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Campfire Regular
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I had a .458 Win. Mag Ackleyrized once, once. Looking back it doesn't seem worth the bother. LOL, how would that work?
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,260
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
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AI `ing a cartidge has benefits beyond the difference in MV.Longer case life,less trimming.Velocities in Reload Manuals are seldom attained in the Parent case or the AI.Just having some thing differnt, has its way cool factor!!!! 
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 833
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 833 |
Have new powders made the 270AI a better performer now?
Monster Whitetails are Awesome!!!
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Saeed had a custom one built: 270 ACKLEY IMPROVED
...Several people used this rifle on several African safaris, bagging well over 100 big game animals, including all the larger plains game such as sable, zebra, kudu and waterbuck. Most were shot using the Barnes X 130-grain bullet, although some were shot with the Trophy Bonded 140 grain Bear Claw. Both bullets performed without a single failure.
One top load from him claims to be: 62.0gr R22; 3177 feet per second; 25" barrel: 140gr. TBBC bullet
So, with a 22" barrel, I can only get about 2970fps with 140gr bullets. Even adding about 30fps/inch for his 25" barrel, his 270 ACKLEY IMPROVEDvelocities exceed the standard 270 win. load by over 100fps!??Some one explain this to me....but it seems that the 270AI has the same or better performance increase that a 280AI has over a handloaded 280rem ?! If so, why aren't more people doing it? Never had a 270AI, but can't help but wonder what the standard 270 is capable of with a 25" barrel and 140 TBBC; or 130 TTSX for that matter (?) 270AI beat the standard? Sure,,,by baby increments. It's been established for decades that the 270 Winchester is capable of taking the same plains game on that list as the 270AI or the 280 AI''.My old buddy RinB on here has taken well over 200 head of African plains game with the standard 270 from eland on down using 130 TSX,130 SS, 130 Aframe,130 Bitterroot and others I forget. I think Colmacivor on here has piled up a bunch of African game with the 270AI in Africa and think he is way over 100 head but maybe he will pop up and comment. But the reason I won't do the 270 or 280AI "thing" is the 7mm Rem Mag in the same action length and barrels which leave the 270AI,280AI firmly in the dust with anything 140-175 grains. That's only been stealing the show since 1962 or so. I always figure the first thing you gotta do to be a 280AI fan is ignore the 7 Rem Mag.  I leave the standard case 270 and 280 in the shorter 22" barreled sporter and chamber the longer 24-25" barrel for cases with more capacity than a blown out standard case... like the 7Rem Mag or Mashburn. There are others....Dakota, Weatherby etc etc They give the velocity without breaking a sweat. If i am going to beat a 270 or 280 I'm not going to try to make the lighter bullets eke out another 100 fps. I'm going to grab more capacity in meaningful amounts and make the heavy 7mm bullets go as fast or faster. If there's a performance edge to be had, the heaviest 7mm bullets 160 gr and up is where it's at. Go big or stay home.....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,514
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 8,514 |
**********************
[the member formerly known as fluffy}
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,514
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 8,514 |
**********************
[the member formerly known as fluffy}
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
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Have new powders made the 270AI a better performer now? No.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,673
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2004
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Saeed had a custom one built: 270 ACKLEY IMPROVED
...Several people used this rifle on several African safaris, bagging well over 100 big game animals, including all the larger plains game such as sable, zebra, kudu and waterbuck. Most were shot using the Barnes X 130-grain bullet, although some were shot with the Trophy Bonded 140 grain Bear Claw. Both bullets performed without a single failure.
One top load from him claims to be: 62.0gr R22; 3177 feet per second; 25" barrel: 140gr. TBBC bullet
So, with a 22" barrel, I can only get about 2970fps with 140gr bullets. Even adding about 30fps/inch for his 25" barrel, his 270 ACKLEY IMPROVEDvelocities exceed the standard 270 win. load by over 100fps!??Some one explain this to me....but it seems that the 270AI has the same or better performance increase that a 280AI has over a handloaded 280rem ?! If so, why aren't more people doing it? Never had a 270AI, but can't help but wonder what the standard 270 is capable of with a 25" barrel and 140 TBBC; or 130 TTSX for that matter (?) 270AI beat the standard? Sure,,,by baby increments. It's been established for decades that the 270 Winchester is capable of taking the same plains game on that list as the 270AI or the 280 AI''.My old buddy RinB on here has taken well over 200 head of African plains game with the standard 270 from eland on down using 130 TSX,130 SS, 130 Aframe,130 Bitterroot and others I forget. I think Colmacivor on here has piled up a bunch of African game with the 270AI in Africa and think he is way over 100 head but maybe he will pop up and comment. But the reason I won't do the 270 or 280AI "thing" is the 7mm Rem Mag in the same action length and barrels which leave the 270AI,280AI firmly in the dust with anything 140-175 grains. That's only been stealing the show since 1962 or so. I always figure the first thing you gotta do to be a 280AI fan is ignore the 7 Rem Mag. I leave the standard case 270 and 280 in the shorter 22" barreled sporter and chamber the longer 24-25" barrel for cases with more capacity than a blown out standard case... like the 7Rem Mag or Mashburn. There are others....Dakota, Weatherby etc etc They give the velocity without breaking a sweat. If i am going to beat a 270 or 280 I'm not going to try to make the lighter bullets eke out another 100 fps. I'm going to grab more capacity in meaningful amounts and make the heavy 7mm bullets go as fast or faster. If there's a performance edge to be had, the heaviest 7mm bullets 160 gr and up is where it's at. Go big or stay home..... There is a whole lot of common sense in Bob's post.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 414
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 414 |
Bob always shares lots of common sense. I think the Classic, powerful 270 Winchester is awesome and the 280ai is for those who lack good judgement on buying a 7mm 
"The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization"-- Emerson
Support outdoor sports and our hunting-conservationist heritage; hunt with high morals and ethical standards
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,893
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,893 |
Brooksrange
You will gain less than 5% in case capacity improving the .270 Win. Feeling free to jump from 58 grains of RL 22 (Nosler #6 max) to 66 grains of RL 22 with a 130 is a perfect example of why some people should not be allowed to own or use an improved cartridge. Should not be allowed to handload or handle sharp objects for that matter.
The cartridge improvement in question was actually a 270 JDJ, not the typical AI formation. Thus the case held more powder. I am not familiar with the Gibbs improvements. But, I believe it was said the JDJ & Gibbs version were nearly identical. I am almost grown at age 57 & own many sharp objects. THe 66 gr load was perfectly safe in my gun. The cases were cycled at least 10 times each & they are still ready for more.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 28,172 |
If speed with light bullets is your goal go with the 270 I.C.L Jaguar, developed in the early 1950s by Vern Juenke in his fine Saturn rifles. He long throated them and used a very slow twist to gain maximum velocity.
I had a Saturn in 25/270 I.C.L Ram that I used to take my desert bighorn back in the day. It got honest 3,700ish FPS velocities with 100gr bullets over 59.5gr of 4350. It shot little bugger holes with hot loads. That was Vern's goal. I was fortunate to be a neighbor of his when I was a kid.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 975
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 975 |
270 Weatherby comes to mind
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,114
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,114 |
Saeed had a custom one built: 270 ACKLEY IMPROVED
...Several people used this rifle on several African safaris, bagging well over 100 big game animals, including all the larger plains game such as sable, zebra, kudu and waterbuck. Most were shot using the Barnes X 130-grain bullet, although some were shot with the Trophy Bonded 140 grain Bear Claw. Both bullets performed without a single failure.
One top load from him claims to be: 62.0gr R22; 3177 feet per second; 25" barrel: 140gr. TBBC bullet
So, with a 22" barrel, I can only get about 2970fps with 140gr bullets. Even adding about 30fps/inch for his 25" barrel, his 270 ACKLEY IMPROVEDvelocities exceed the standard 270 win. load by over 100fps!??Some one explain this to me....but it seems that the 270AI has the same or better performance increase that a 280AI has over a handloaded 280rem ?! If so, why aren't more people doing it? Never had a 270AI, but can't help but wonder what the standard 270 is capable of with a 25" barrel and 140 TBBC; or 130 TTSX for that matter (?) 270AI beat the standard? Sure,,,by baby increments. It's been established for decades that the 270 Winchester is capable of taking the same plains game on that list as the 270AI or the 280 AI''.My old buddy RinB on here has taken well over 200 head of African plains game with the standard 270 from eland on down using 130 TSX,130 SS, 130 Aframe,130 Bitterroot and others I forget. I think Colmacivor on here has piled up a bunch of African game with the 270AI in Africa and think he is way over 100 head but maybe he will pop up and comment. But the reason I won't do the 270 or 280AI "thing" is the 7mm Rem Mag in the same action length and barrels which leave the 270AI,280AI firmly in the dust with anything 140-175 grains. That's only been stealing the show since 1962 or so. I always figure the first thing you gotta do to be a 280AI fan is ignore the 7 Rem Mag. I leave the standard case 270 and 280 in the shorter 22" barreled sporter and chamber the longer 24-25" barrel for cases with more capacity than a blown out standard case... like the 7Rem Mag or Mashburn. There are others....Dakota, Weatherby etc etc They give the velocity without breaking a sweat. If i am going to beat a 270 or 280 I'm not going to try to make the lighter bullets eke out another 100 fps. I'm going to grab more capacity in meaningful amounts and make the heavy 7mm bullets go as fast or faster. If there's a performance edge to be had, the heaviest 7mm bullets 160 gr and up is where it's at. Go big or stay home..... Yep. As always... DF
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,893
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,893 |
I always figure the first thing you gotta do to be a 280AI fan is ignore the 7 Rem Mag. And, for good reason. I have spent way too much effort on 7 RM's trying to get consistent results from them. One day they shoot, the next day they won't. Much prefer the 280's, regular or improved. Beyond that I am a 7 Wby fan. Never had trouble with consistency from any of my several 7 Wby's.
"I never thought I'd live to see the day that a U.S. president would raise an army to invade his own country."
Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,456
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,456 |
Frankly, if your mind is already made up, go do it. Stop trying to get permission via getting others to buy into your BS. On the other hand, if you are honestly asking for information, then listen to the answers.
Seems simple.
The answer about the factory pressures of the parent .270 Win and .280 Rem relative to AI-ing them is correct. Much of the .280 AI's gain comes from increased pressure, not just increasing capacity. The .270 Win is already at safe max pressure so that source of gain is not available to you.
If you want a little more in either diameter, sure, AI, but if you're truly after BIG gains, go with a big case. .270 WSM or .270 Weatherby, or 7mm Rem Mag or 7mm Weatherby.
It really is a no brainer unless you have no brains.
Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
RL: Yeah...they can be finicky. Although I have had less trouble with them in recent years with more powder/bullet options etc. They have become pretty routine. My most recent one stays MOA or less to 600 yards with both the 162 Amax and 150 BT in front of RL25. Like falling off logs any more. I got about 1000 rounds of new brass. Life is good and trouble free. This one dotes on 140 AB's and 68-69 gr RL22 for about 3200. I am GTG. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z395/BobinNH1/20150119_134057.jpg)
Last edited by BobinNH; 05/05/16.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,117 |
Tom,
I don't actually think Rolly is worrying about this anymore, since starting this thread in 2008. Like a lot of Campfire members, he probably went "in another direction" anyway within six months.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,584
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,584 |
Bob, that one of the fancy "Super Grades"? 
Anybody who seriously concerns themselves with the adequacy of a Big 7mm for anything we hunt here short of brown bear, is a dufus. They are mostly making shidt up. Crunch! Nite-nite!
Stolen from an erudite CF member.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,038
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,038 |
Tom,
I don't actually think Rolly is worrying about this anymore, since starting this thread in 2008. True, but I never get tired of reading Bob's opinions on the 280 AI.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Tom,
I don't actually think Rolly is worrying about this anymore, since starting this thread in 2008. True, but I never get tired of reading Bob's opinions on the 280 AI. Funny...I get tired of your stuff real quick. Mostly useless ankle biting nonsense.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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