Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only .375 H&H or .416 Rem?

You can shoot Woodleigh 350g soft points and solids out of your 375 H&H. Factory (Norma) ammo lists 2300fps. Should penetrate real well too and kick less.



Chuck

The last time I shot my 416 Rem. Mag. at the range, I came home with a recoil headache, but not when I've hunted with it! Yes, it does kick harder than the 375 H&H, but that difference is not monumental.

I've never shot a Cape buffalo with a 375 H&H, at least not yet, but I have shot a couple of them with the 416 Rem. Mag., and it hammers big old "dugga boys" very hard, and as far as I'm concerned it's a totally reliable cartridge for African DG, without getting into the truly heavy recoil of the big 458s, etc., plus it shoots flatter as well. I've also used the 416 Rem. Mag. in Alaska, and it's not at all out of place as a spring bear gun, in fact, I think it's perfect for that purpose, at least on the coastal flats.

All things considered, the 416 Rem. Mag. is my favorite big bore of all time, and anyone who can shoot a 375 H&H well and confidently can learn to shoot it with little trouble.........

AD

Allen, have you had any issues with pressure in the hot African sun?

I'm glad you brought that point up.

I have never had the slightest hint of a pressure problem with the 416 Rem. Mag., and I've hunted with it in the Selous late in the season at + 100 degree temperatures, using IMR 4064 as a propellant and 370 gr. North Fork bullets (developed and loaded for me by Superior Ammo, but I can and do duplicate that load myself) loaded to right at 2500 fps.

In my honest opinion, the 416 Rem. Mag. has gotten a bum rap in this regard. It's a SAAMI-spec cartridge and, properly loaded to full velocity (400 gr. bullet @ 2400 + fps.), it doesn't develop pressures that are any greater than lots of other cartridges that are commonly used in Africa, including the 375 H&H, 300 H&H, 338 Win. Mag., all of the Weatherby magnums, 458 Win. Mag., etc.

There have been certain lots of Remington factory 416 Rem. Mag. ammo that were indeed loaded way too hot. But by the same token, Remington loaded certain lots of 375 H&H ammo for a time that were way too hot as well. I had a lot of Remington 300 gr. Swift A-Frame 375 H&H ammo that gave sticking cases and ejector marks, which is almost unheard of in the 375 H&H.

Yet, I've never fired a factory 416 Rem. Mag. load that was in any way too hot (but I've heard of them), and not any carefully-prepared handloads, either. Federal, in particular, turns out truly excellent, accurate, full-velocity 416 Rem. Mag. ammo, and they test this stuff at temperatures as low as - 50 degrees F, and at + 150 degrees F.

If you prefer to handload, the 416 Rem. Mag is an extremely easy cartridge to work with, and it shoots well and to full, safe velocities with a number of powders, including Varget, Reloader 15, IMR 4064, etc. I use Lee crimping die, and have seperate seating dies set up for solids and softs............

AD

Thanks for that Allen, I'm leaning toward the .416 based on the replies I've heard here. Do you have any experience with the Lott?

I've not hunted with the 458 Lott at all.

I have used the 458 Win. Mag. on one safari for hippo, Cape buffalo, and one zebra. It worked very well, but it's a 100 yd. or so gun at best, and with 500 gr. bullets loaded to 2100 fps., it represents the upper threshold of my recoil tolerance. I like shooting the 416 Rem. Mag. much better, and it kills buffalo at least as well as the 458 Win. Mag. does, judging from the limited amount of hunting I've done with both cartridges.

Quite honestly, I loath shooting the bigger 458s, including the Lott, and any buffalo I'd hunt will be safer from me if I have a 458 Lott in my hands rather than a 416 or a 375.

Everyone, if he's honest enough to admit it, has his own personal recoil threshold, and the 458 Win. Mag. is tops for me.

Hunting Cape buffalo is, in one key area, very much like hunting anything else, and Jim Carmichel coined another classic saying when he stated that:

"It's not the thunder that kills - it's the LIGHTNING!"


AD

Thanks for the info Allen, I appreciate your input and everyone else who took the time to respond.

I would have the 375...but would also have it chambered for Wby
but would then shoot either in it which is an option not explored...but should the extra 500 ft pounds be needed I would ahve that option...if Echols is doing the work...might as well have the option...going to 416 is really not needed in my opinion. If I were thinking about more power I would be more inclined toward a double 470 NE....or somesuch....but I would still do the 375 Wby....

Split the difference-404 Jeffrey is really good-hits hard, recoil is only slightly more than a 375. Restocking the Dakota in synthetic is probably what I'd do.

One cool thing about the 375 H&H compared to other big bores, it's not that expensive to shoot. Means more range time, at least for me.

nyrifleman,
Sorry it took so long to get back with you..I can only share my experiences with the .416 to the point that I have shot many buffalo with both the .375 and the 416 and the .416 is the better of the two, and it is a great plainsgame rilfe, I have on many ocassions gone to RSA prior to Tanzania to hunt and only wanted to pack one rifle around in all the airports, The .375 and the 416 both got that job done, but after years of using both I would pick the .416 Rem or .404 Jeffereys over the .375, but thats a personal choice....

BTW the difference in recoil between the 416 Rem, 416 Rigby and 404 is zilch, they all kick the same...Some folks seem to think the 404 is a 2100 FPS rifle, but in a good strong bolt gun and todays IMR-4831 it will out do the .416 Rem. by 200 FPS or better. My good .404 Mauser has been digesting 95 grs. of IMR-4831 for years for 2663 FPS in its 27 inch barrel and 2602 in its 26" barrel. Its a bitch for recoil so I load it with 83 grs. for about 2400 FPS.

One can also load the .416 down to 2100 FPS if recoil is a problem or up to near 2500 FPS if recoil isn't a problem, but with any of these calibers the best velocity for DG hunting is the tried and true 2350 to 2400 FPS..

The .375 with a 350 gr. PP at 2400 in a .375 is a good enough killer and for those whose recoil tolerance is less than the .416.

Thanks Ray, due to all the input I've recieved here I've decided to build the .416

The 416 rigby is by far a better cartridge than the remmington if you go the 416 route.

I don't see why the .416 Rigby is better than the 416 Rem or 416 Ruger, its just a bigger case on a bigger bulkier, heavier action at the same balistics..I know it can be loaded hotter and near equal the .416 Wby, but so what, it does not kill any better..I opt for the trimmer, slimmer, meaner .416s....

Any action in .416 Rigby is wasted, it should be a 505 or 500 IMO...

I found this wise post while trying to make up my mind on a 375 Weatherby or a 416 Rem. Mag.

I might just do a 416 Rem. Mag myself.

I do not hunt Africa, but consider the 416 Rem a great round no doubt. I do not have a 375 Wby, but have considered rechambering an H&H to one, still on the fence about this.

I do have 375 H&Hs, 416 Remingtons, 375 Rugers, and 416 Rugers. For my purposes I favor the 375 Rugers with the 270 TSX & 416 Rugers with the 350 TSX. One factor is the way my rifles are set up. I have several SS Ruger rifles of various chamberings so familiarity is a definite factor.

I also have several SS M70 Classics, which at one time were the rifles of my choice. I do have a SS M70 re-barreled to 416 Rem that I am quiet fond of and all intentions of keeping my SS M70s in 375 H&H. And am in the process of modifying a couple of the H&Hs.

By far though I use the Ruger cartridges more. If, I did not handload, possibly not. Since within the past few years it has become a major PIA to get ammo for the Ruger cartridges manufactured by the smaller ammunition companies shipped to an Alaskan home address. And premuim bullet factory loads for the H&H and Rem are easy to find here retail, if you are willing to pay the price. The Lower 48 does not have the shipping issue though.

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I found this wise post while trying to make up my mind on a 375 Weatherby or a 416 Rem. Mag.

I might just do a 416 Rem. Mag myself. [/quote]

---------------------------------------------------------------[quote=John_Gregori][quote=allenday]The last time I shot my 416 Rem. Mag. at the range, I came home with a recoil headache, but not when I've hunted with it! Yes, it does kick harder than the 375 H&H, but that difference is not monumental.

I've never shot a Cape buffalo with a 375 H&H, at least not yet, but I have shot a couple of them with the 416 Rem. Mag., and it hammers big old "dugga boys" very hard, and as far as I'm concerned it's a totally reliable cartridge for African DG, without getting into the truly heavy recoil of the big 458s, etc., plus it shoots flatter as well. I've also used the 416 Rem. Mag. in Alaska, and it's not at all out of place as a spring bear gun, in fact, I think it's perfect for that purpose, at least on the coastal flats.

All things considered, the 416 Rem. Mag. is my favorite big bore of all time, and anyone who can shoot a 375 H&H well and confidently can learn to shoot it with little trouble.........

AD

early on I always felt that a 416 was the best all around gun if you were to just choice one to do everything. That is the thing with personal experience eventually helping you decide needs. I still love the 416 and I have always wanted a 404 but the 375 is the one I have used the most and looking forward whatever remaining trips I will have left to make will probably best fit the job. For me now the joy of trying new cartridges is out weighed by the need to have some type of African experience going forward.
The funny thing is I am content with just going with a 375 VC. I have enjoyed the ride learning, now I just want to enjoy the ride I have left

I have a 375 AI and a 416 Rigby. The Ai is on a pre-64 action and the Rigby on a Ruger Magnum action.

I bought the AI because it was a beautiful rifle and if it hadn't been "improved" it would have cost more, probably more than I would have wanted to pay. So far I only shoot 375 H&H level loads in it. The pre-64 actions are OK but their stocks need to be strengthened.
You say you want a 70 Classic. I have one in 338. It's pretty, but there's problems I've been told, but not experienced with the bolt handle and associated part on the bolt breaking free. On a dangerous hunt, I might have this corrected by a weld on the bolt that will stop this from occurring.
I bought the Rigby, because I've wanted on ever since I saw one, probably in the American Rifleman many years ago.

I'm a Remington fan and the 416 Remington Magnum in my mind is as good as the Rigby. But I needed the Rigby because it is sooo cool...

As far as recoil goes I'm a firm believer in proper stock design. My Ruger 77 7mm Rem Mag hurts more than any other rifle I shoot, including 300's 338's the 375 or the 416. In fact it hurts more than any other rifle I've ever shot. It hurts my face and it hurts my shoulder. That stock is a red pad and I probably should sell the stock and restock the rifle. Or just sell the rifle.

8 year old thread..


But, when using a Win 70, I would do a 404 Jeffery on a RUM action.

On a Mauser action, I would do a 458 WM.

Yes, 8 year old thread and I still vote for pre 64 model 70 chambered in the grand ol 375 Holland and Holland. It will get the job done without any fuss at all. No worries there...