|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,171
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,171 |
Don't waste the bandwidth princess, click ignore....
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 838
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 838 |
Get what ever you want and be done with it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,477
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,477 |
I've never had trouble closing in to easy range for the 35. And this is the difference between hunting and shooting. Its been a number of years since I ran the numbers of the 9.2/35/338-06 and maybe one more before I built the 338-06. But IIRC the 35 whelen certainly wasn't any worse to speak of in drops and such than my 308 Win with 185 bergers. Lets just say I"m not afraid to run the 308 out to around 750 to 800 yards any day, and only not furhter because I've never gotten around to getting firm fired drop data on it past that distance.... even though I have my JBM charts changed up to match current trajectory, I don't shoot past what I've actually fired distance wise. So I would not worry about a whelen limiting my distances. Heck, have run the 223 to around 600 on deer and to 1000 on paper
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,760
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,760 |
You have already received more than your share of warnings against a 35 caliber, so I will not go that route. I'd suggest you make a hard decision on the platform first, such as a stainless NH M70. Then find one that is turn key in decent shape that is long action, preferably chambered 30-06. You can run that gun as chambered while you decide on stock, sights, etc. Then, either re-bore, or better, get a quality 35 barrel having the correct twist to run the 35 bullet you need stabilized. Likely at that point, you will need to reload to maintain a reliable supply of 35 ammo loaded to your desired specs.
Do not follow current pricing, but I recently found a stainless NH M70 FW 30-06 that was near new in box for $400. I would much rather deal with that as a base platform vs all the headaches dealing with a Mauser, if building a rough and tumble workhorse on the cheap. I'd expect to expend more time and money on the most common found Mauser's today, vs the common found M70. As for the CZ, they have more tiny pieces and parts in their trigger group alone than a 98 Mauser has in the entire rifle. So to my taste, by the time I rid the CZ of those rube goldberg parts, an out the box NH M70 makes more sense. Even a stainless Ruger 30-06 with its Mauser like large and robust parts would be a good choice for such a tool.
Likely if you narrow your search for a factory 35, you will find few, and even fewer with your needed twist.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
- Clint Eastwood
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,417
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,417 |
Ignore works for psychopaths too, like Larry, Karen and Brian...
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!"
--- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,629
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,629 |
I've never had trouble closing in to easy range for the 35. And this is the difference between hunting and shooting. Its been a number of years since I ran the numbers of the 9.2/35/338-06 and maybe one more before I built the 338-06. But IIRC the 35 whelen certainly wasn't any worse to speak of in drops and such than my 308 Win with 185 bergers. Lets just say I"m not afraid to run the 308 out to around 750 to 800 yards any day, and only not furhter because I've never gotten around to getting firm fired drop data on it past that distance.... even though I have my JBM charts changed up to match current trajectory, I don't shoot past what I've actually fired distance wise. So I would not worry about a whelen limiting my distances. Heck, have run the 223 to around 600 on deer and to 1000 on paper Range finders and dials/reticles/drop charts have really mooted range issues for just about any reasonable cartridge at previously unreasonable ranges. My Whelen AI was written up in the American Rifleman in the '70s and I used it quite a bit for years and have shot deer, moose, caribou, and black bears with it. My issue with it relates to folks showing up without their ammo. I have seen it quite a few times. Even had a poster from here show up without the bolts for his rifles... He split them up from the rifles when checking them so no one would steal them! 
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,567
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,567 |
unless the OP is a rifle loonie, i cant see why he wants to mess around with someone elses trouble, a custom build from something else, when there are perfectly good 35 Whelens and 9.3x62 rifles available from well known factories.
if he wants a whelen, get the Ruger 77, plenty out there
if a 9.3 get the CZ, plenty out there
i'd be taking my 375 H&H as the choice of loads plus availability is better than either of the aformentioned.
it aint no heavier, it always feeds and extracts/ejects, a 235 tsx shoots as flat as a 180 06' and the 300gr tsx will settle anythings hash.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793 |
Don't waste the bandwidth princess, click ignore.... Judman: While I respect everyone’s opinion, including yours, it is your vitriol to which I object. I may have been wrong, naïve or misguided in some of my statements, but I have posted no mean-spirited comments, nor controversial opinions, yet from the comfort of your own home, you feel comfortable calling me a ‘princess,’ and you have called others, whose advice, experience and knowledge I respect and appreciate, vulgar names as well. I don’t know your motivations for being on this forum, but I can tell you that such an attitude is diametrically opposed to winning friends and influencing people. There’s a way to present your opinions without being ill mannered. Kevin-
Are you aware of the 'ignore function'? It's wonderful. Mike: Duly noted. Get what ever you want and be done with it. True, and good advice, but I need to figure that out what that is first! While I realize there is no such thing as the perfect rifle, I’d like to get as close to that, within my budget constraints, as I can. Lets just say I’m not afraid to run the 308 out to around 750 to 800 yards any day, and only not further because I've never gotten around to getting firm fired drop data on it past that distance.... even though I have my JBM charts changed up to match current trajectory, I don't shoot past what I've actually fired distance wise.
So I would not worry about a Whelen limiting my distances.
Heck, have run the 223 to around 600 on deer and to 1000 on paper rost: Currently, I do not have the skill to comfortably and reliably take game at such great distances. A select few riflemen do, however, and I respect their abilities. I am comfortable taking game up to about 350-400 yards, less if possible, so I limit myself to such distances. More practice might increase this, but I find satisfaction in closing the distance as much as possible before taking the shot. I’m not worried about distance limitations with the Whelen, or the 9.3x62 for that matter. GaryVA: Thanks for the excellent post. I agree with all your points and I like the idea of going the semi-custom route with the M70 in .30-06. I have plenty of time to decide on a caliber (.35W or 9.3x62). A new barrel w/ the twist I want is likely the direction I would take with such a ‘semi-custom’ build. I also realize that building up a Mauser action can be both time consuming and expensive, which is why if I wanted to go the custom Mauser route, I’d find a used one that has already been completed. In my view, the problem with the older Mauser actions is the relatively low-grade carbon steel that was used in their manufacture, and while it’s not a huge concern, the steel used in modern actions is obviously much stronger. For me, the primary appeal of a Mauser action (other than CRF) is the beautiful machining and superb function. Modern actions with such attention to detail are exceedingly expensive i.e. Granite Mountain Arms. I’ve also read about the myriad of small parts found in the CZ trigger, which could potentially be a bad recipe for a rifle that would also be used for defense. Apparently the CZ550 Kevlar carbine in 9.3x62 I’m looking at has a 1:10 twist rate, which I don’t think is optimal for this caliber (please correct me if I’m wrong). I do like the fact that the CZ is Mauser-based and I like the dovetailed receiver as well. So I think you are correct, the M70 (or possibly a worked over Ruger M77 MKII action) is likely the best route for me to take to get the rifle I’m looking for. Sitka Deer: Your comment regarding range finders and dials/reticles/drop charts is certainly true. I’ve even seen scopes that integrate all these features into their design and perform all the calculations for you! But it’s like I tell younger geology students, if your GPS and mapping software crash, your battery dies, or your GPS/tablet is dropped and breaks, or it rains, etc. you still need to know how to run a Brunton and read a topographic map. Anything can happen and obviously, forgotten ammo isn’t limited to the .35W. A person can show up for a hunt without his .338WM cartridges and you may only have .30-06 ammo, or a fella with a .300WSM might show up without ammo and you only have .338WM rounds – or .35W rounds, the possibilities are endless. As far as that fellow showing up without bolts, well, I can only say if someone takes such a step to prevent theft, they’re probably a lot more likely to get a lesson in Murphy’s Law! stlooiearch: Your suggestion is still an option. As I’ve stated many times, I haven’t made a decision yet. I’ve also considered that by purchasing a used custom Mauser, I may indeed be purchasing someone else’s trouble. .375 H&H is a good option, but I find the recoil above my tolerance levels.
Last edited by High_Noon; 06/28/16.
l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,567
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,567 |
"stlooiearch: Your suggestion is still an option. As I’ve stated many times, I haven’t made a decision yet. I’ve also considered that by purchasing a used custom Mauser, I may indeed be purchasing someone else’s trouble. .375 H&H is a good option, but I find the recoil above my tolerance levels."
the difference between these 3 cartridges is very small.
my A-bolt 375 is a lot nicer to shoot than my springfield sporter in 9.3 or my 35 whelen no. 1
it comes down to weight, stock design and recoil pad.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793 |
the difference between these 3 cartridges is very small. my A-bolt 375 is a lot nicer to shoot than my springfield sporter in 9.3 or my 35 whelen no. 1. it comes down to weight, stock design and recoil pad. All true. The only .375 H&H I've shot is my buddies M70, which kicked like a pack of mules.
l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793 |
I just found a very nice looking Ruger M77 MKII in .30-06, 98% condition, for $200.00, but I'd much prefer an FN M70.
Last edited by High_Noon; 06/28/16.
l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,477
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,477 |
Me too. But bird in hand....thats what, about 450 with the rebore.....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793 |
Me too. But bird in hand....thats what, about 450 with the rebore..... Yep, an attractive price, no doubt. At a minimum, with the Ruger action, I'd want to skim cut the receiver face and lap the lugs.
Last edited by High_Noon; 06/28/16.
l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,477
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,477 |
Not on a rebore you won't. Unless you are putting on a top line barrel like a Rock, Krieger or such, I'd not waste time.
Especially for a 400 yard gun.
My 338-06 rebore is just fine for 400 yards, no lugs cut, no truing etc... just rebore/rechamber and done.
It really doesn't take much for a 300-400 yard gun.
And if you are going to do all this truing work then put something top line for a barrel on, not a douglas.
IMHO.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793 |
Not on a rebore you won't. Unless you are putting on a top line barrel like a Rock, Krieger or such, I'd not waste time.
Especially for a 400 yard gun.
My 338-06 rebore is just fine for 400 yards, no lugs cut, no truing etc... just rebore/rechamber and done.
It really doesn't take much for a 300-400 yard gun.
And if you are going to do all this truing work then put something top line for a barrel on, not a douglas.
IMHO. Duly noted.
l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793 |
I just read that at 1:12 twist rate for the 9.3x62 is probably optimal and a 1:10 is also good, so the CZ 550 Kevlar carbine w/ the 1:10 twist would be a great option, just needing a Timney trigger replacement to avoid potential problems with all those small parts. Slap a good scope on and I'll be good to go. Sounds a lot easier than foolin' with a conversion to either this caliber or .35W. If I can find a used, customized Mauser in either of these calibers for less, that'd be a good option too.
Last edited by High_Noon; 06/28/16.
l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,170
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,170 |
I'd not get my pants wadded over "optimal" twist rates. When I built my Whelen I had the choice of a 1-16" SS barrel blank for $40 or any twist I wanted for $225 and up. I went with the 16" twist because I was just a poor kid. It will shoot any 250 I've ever fed it into groups 1.5" or less and shoots the old 300gr Barnes Originals that I have a stash of into right around 1". Unless you're planning to shoot some long pointy 35 bullets that I'm not aware of any commonly available twist will work. 16" was about the only twist rate on all things 35 made in the US for forever and bullet makers know that.
If building from scratch and prices are the same absolutely get the tighter twist, but don't let it shy you away from a good deal on a factory or used custom rifle. It is a 35 caliber afterall and not a 223
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,171
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,171 |
Don't waste the bandwidth princess, click ignore.... Judman: While I respect everyone’s opinion, including yours, it is your vitriol to which I object. I may have been wrong, naïve or misguided in some of my statements, but I have posted no mean-spirited comments, nor controversial opinions, yet from the comfort of your own home, you feel comfortable calling me a ‘princess,’ and you have called others, whose advice, experience and knowledge I respect and appreciate, vulgar names as well. I don’t know your motivations for being on this forum, but I can tell you that such an attitude is diametrically opposed to winning friends and influencing people. There’s a way to present your opinions without being ill mannered. Kevin-
Are you aware of the 'ignore function'? It's wonderful. Mike: Duly noted. Get what ever you want and be done with it. True, and good advice, but I need to figure that out what that is first! While I realize there is no such thing as the perfect rifle, I’d like to get as close to that, within my budget constraints, as I can. Lets just say I’m not afraid to run the 308 out to around 750 to 800 yards any day, and only not further because I've never gotten around to getting firm fired drop data on it past that distance.... even though I have my JBM charts changed up to match current trajectory, I don't shoot past what I've actually fired distance wise.
So I would not worry about a Whelen limiting my distances.
Heck, have run the 223 to around 600 on deer and to 1000 on paper rost: Currently, I do not have the skill to comfortably and reliably take game at such great distances. A select few riflemen do, however, and I respect their abilities. I am comfortable taking game up to about 350-400 yards, less if possible, so I limit myself to such distances. More practice might increase this, but I find satisfaction in closing the distance as much as possible before taking the shot. I’m not worried about distance limitations with the Whelen, or the 9.3x62 for that matter. GaryVA: Thanks for the excellent post. I agree with all your points and I like the idea of going the semi-custom route with the M70 in .30-06. I have plenty of time to decide on a caliber (.35W or 9.3x62). A new barrel w/ the twist I want is likely the direction I would take with such a ‘semi-custom’ build. I also realize that building up a Mauser action can be both time consuming and expensive, which is why if I wanted to go the custom Mauser route, I’d find a used one that has already been completed. In my view, the problem with the older Mauser actions is the relatively low-grade carbon steel that was used in their manufacture, and while it’s not a huge concern, the steel used in modern actions is obviously much stronger. For me, the primary appeal of a Mauser action (other than CRF) is the beautiful machining and superb function. Modern actions with such attention to detail are exceedingly expensive i.e. Granite Mountain Arms. I’ve also read about the myriad of small parts found in the CZ trigger, which could potentially be a bad recipe for a rifle that would also be used for defense. Apparently the CZ550 Kevlar carbine in 9.3x62 I’m looking at has a 1:10 twist rate, which I don’t think is optimal for this caliber (please correct me if I’m wrong). I do like the fact that the CZ is Mauser-based and I like the dovetailed receiver as well. So I think you are correct, the M70 (or possibly a worked over Ruger M77 MKII action) is likely the best route for me to take to get the rifle I’m looking for. Sitka Deer: Your comment regarding range finders and dials/reticles/drop charts is certainly true. I’ve even seen scopes that integrate all these features into their design and perform all the calculations for you! But it’s like I tell younger geology students, if your GPS and mapping software crash, your battery dies, or your GPS/tablet is dropped and breaks, or it rains, etc. you still need to know how to run a Brunton and read a topographic map. Anything can happen and obviously, forgotten ammo isn’t limited to the .35W. A person can show up for a hunt without his .338WM cartridges and you may only have .30-06 ammo, or a fella with a .300WSM might show up without ammo and you only have .338WM rounds – or .35W rounds, the possibilities are endless. As far as that fellow showing up without bolts, well, I can only say if someone takes such a step to prevent theft, they’re probably a lot more likely to get a lesson in Murphy’s Law! stlooiearch: Your suggestion is still an option. As I’ve stated many times, I haven’t made a decision yet. I’ve also considered that by purchasing a used custom Mauser, I may indeed be purchasing someone else’s trouble. .375 H&H is a good option, but I find the recoil above my tolerance levels. My bad that was for ironbender certainly not you, sometimes the response icon doesn't tell the tale. Getcha a whelen and go smack some critters
Ping pong balls for the win.
Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable
I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Ain’t easy havin pals.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,793 |
TheKid: Thanks, and a good point.
l told my pap and mam I was going to be a mountain man; acted like they was gut-shot. Make your life go here. Here's where the peoples is. Mother Gue, I says, the Rocky Mountains is the marrow of the world, and by God, I was right.
- Del Gue
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,187
Campfire Oracle
|
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,187 |
Don't waste the bandwidth princess, click ignore.... Judman: While I respect everyone’s opinion, including yours, it is your vitriol to which I object. I may have been wrong, naïve or misguided in some of my statements, but I have posted no mean-spirited comments, nor controversial opinions, yet from the comfort of your own home, you feel comfortable calling me a ‘princess,’ and you have called others, whose advice, experience and knowledge I respect and appreciate, vulgar names as well. I don’t know your motivations for being on this forum, but I can tell you that such an attitude is diametrically opposed to winning friends and influencing people. There’s a way to present your opinions without being ill mannered. Kevin-
Are you aware of the 'ignore function'? It's wonderful. Mike: Duly noted. Pretty sure she was aiming that at me.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
|
|
|
|
|
585 members (007FJ, 10gaugeman, 12344mag, 1badf350, 163bc, 06hunter59, 60 invisible),
2,625
guests, and
1,351
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,597
Posts18,473,504
Members73,941
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
