I am an older (47) geology graduate student who has an opportunity to take a position in AK upon graduation and I am interested in getting a .35 Whelen for brown bear, moose, and caribou. I lived in AK for almost a year back in the early 90s and I am excited about the possibility of returning. Bear defense would likely be handled by a JM stamped Marlin .45-70, if I can ever find one for a decent price, but the Whelen would likely accompany me in the field until a suitable Marlin could be found (either that or a Ruger Blackhawk in .454 Casull, depending on the amount of gear I would have to carry).

I have seen several Mauser-based, custom .35 Whelens for sale on the gun auction sites, which range in price and quality from $300.00 to nearly 10K, but I am considering either a Montana AVR/SS $1,333.00 (stainless barreled action w/ walnut stock) or a Montana V2 for $1,458.00 (stainless barreled action w/ carbon/kevlar stock). The AVR is also available in carbon steel for a bit less. I prefer the walnut stock; however, the Montana V2 includes Marbles iron sights, which is desirable for me since I plan to mount a Leupold VX-6 1-6x24 with Q/D rings and use the irons for defense & the scope for hunting. I could also get a stainless Montana V2 barreled action and drop it into an Accurate Innovations stock, since I really dislike synthetic stocks, but I’m not sure it would be worth the expense. I just prefer walnut for its warmth and classic style.

Several years ago I read that Montana Rifle Co. rifles had spotty reliability, but I imagine they have resolved any issues; although, I cannot confirm this.

I do not currently reload, but I would like to one day, if I can ever find a reloading mentor, but Midway has several .35 Whelen ammo offerings, which would cover anything I needed.

I also briefly considered a CZ 550 carbine in 9.3x62, but I much prefer the Whelen.

I should also mention that I am a CRF guy - no push-feeds for me & I'm not trying to start an argument on the merits of either action.

So my question is, would I be better off with a Montana or trying to find a Mauser-based .35 Whelen? My concern with a used Mauser-based rifle is that I would like to avoid the possibility of additional gunsmithing on some of these rifles.

High_Noon

I'd say since you don't reload, forget about the 35 Whelen. Factory ammo is not common and I would not want to rely on ordering ammo off the internet. I'd say for the non handloader, 30-06, 300 win mag, 338 win mag and 375 H&H are the best choices for Alaska in terms of terminal performance and over the counter ammo.

And I say this as a big fan of 35's having had a 35 whelen, 350 Rigby and now a 350 rem mag. But I've always fed them handloads.

a CZ in 9.3x62 will do more than the 35W and has a large selection of factory ammo

it's a mauser action, reasonably priced and reliable.

put a simple high qualty 4x scope on it and you can handle anything (including bears)

available all over

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/23223

The 454 handgun is big, heavy and hard to shoot. a S&W 329 44 mag with reasonable hard cast loads and cushioned grips is light and easier to shoot. It won't be left behind as it does not weigh a ton.

458 Lott: Thanks for the reply, but I'm not particularly interested in a belted magnum and I am looking for something a bit more powerful/unusual than the '06. Local ammo availability is not really a concern for me. As a long time owner of a CZ 550 in 6.5x55, I simply found a factory loading that shot well from my rifle and then purchased a truck load of it. I've never had a problem with ammo and I would not rule out the Whelen due to lack of local ammo availability.

stlooiearch: I have seen quite a bit more ammo availability for the Whelen than I have for the 9.3x62, but again, once I found a load I liked, I would order a bunch of it. I am partial to the Nosler Partition and I have not seen a 9.3x62 with the Partition. Also, thanks for the link, I looked for, but was unable to find a 550 American in walnut -I was only able to find the synthetic stocked 550 carbine. What is your opinion of the synthetic stocked 550 carbine w/ 20.6" barrel vs. the 550 American/walnut w/ 23.6" barrel? I'll admit that 550 American/walnut is very tempting. I also think that the .35 Whelen and the 9.3x62 are so close ballistically, that any difference is largely academic. A .009 size difference is hardly anything to get excited about. & duly noted on the size/weight of the Ruger .454.

Used a 35 W IMP Remington 700 for many years. It was a 30-06 that was rebored by LaBounty in the late 70's and fitted with a Brown Precision stock. If you don't reload it's a caliber that gets eliminated but there are several other things that I would consider.
300's, 338, 375 all are generally heavier than non-magnum based rifles. I don't like to carry more than I have to.
Synthetic stocks, to me at least, are the thing for Alaska. In 1974 I used a walnut stocked 35W IMP on a Springfield action. 22LPI checkering, beautiful wood. After about two weeks hunting, living in a tent, rain, cold I decided that synthetic was the way to go. Wood stocks take a beating in that kind of weather.
Ended up with two Remington 700's in Brown Precision stocks, 30-06 and the 35W IMP.
Enjoy yourself.
Stainless is a good idea too, although I always carefully waxed everything, reassembled, checked zero and never had a problem with rust (except for volcanic dust).

Sorry to rain on your parade, but as others told you the Whelen is not a good choice for non-reloading Alaskans... you cannot reasonably order ammo from here as it cannot be shipped at reasonable cost. It must go ground and that is not an AK shipping option from the legal perspective.

A 30-06 will do everything the Whelen will... I still have an AI version and have shot quite a bunch of critters with them...

And the not uncommon risk you run of needing ammo in a remote town is complicated by not having common chambers...

Ruger offers their rifles in .35 Whelen. A friend bought one for brown bear and thumped a couple with it both hunting and DLP. He since sent it off to Hart for an AI version with a longer barrel.


In my experience a .30-06 with a good bullet will serve you well. It's my primary hunting rifle and I've shot shot a few browns with it both DLP and tagged. Even a couple wild beef cows on one of the nearby islands.

If you want to lower your cost some, I have a Ruger Hawkeye in 35 Whelen that is in excellent condition I would sell. Also have a good bit of ammo for it.

Haven't been to alaska, but am a 35W fan, I would think the montana would be a good choice but I was going to suggest the ruger as well. Can do some customizing with a different stock, etc if need be and tough guns. Not sure what the ammo situation is up there but if you lay in a supply you should be good until you start reloading.

I'll be a dissenting opinion here. I'd go with the 35 Whelen. You stated you can get a deal on ammo so stock up until you can get started reloading. The 35 Whelen is an awesome round for Alaska.

I got mine back from Labounty shortly after moving to Alaska and all my reloading gear was in storage as we were living in an apartment until we found a house and sold our home in Washington. I bought set of dies and a Lee hand press and started loading. It worked well and turned out excellent ammo.

You'll not regret the choice. I load one load, a 250 grain partition over 56 grains of 4320. You'll find H4895 and RL15 work well also.

Let the man buy/use what he wants. But I'll second SD and 458 on calibers.
I haven't fired my .338WM in 6 years... which I reload using shoulder headspace anyway. Better accuracy. I've been using a .260 and a 30-06 exclusively. If OP doesn't want a belted mag, but a bit more oomph than an '06, he might look at a .30 Short Mag. Don't know if they come in CRF, tho.

Store ammo is likely more easily come by than either the .35 Whelen or the 9.3.

But to each his own.

I am also going to agree to disagree with many of my Alaskan brethen. There are stacks of various factory loadings of 35 Whelen in five Sportsman's Warehouse stores(Juneau, Anchorage, Soldotna, Wasilla and Fairbanks). Alaska Ammo and Frontier Outfitters also sells it in Fairbanks. 35 Whelen is an awesome Alaskan caliber. Believe it or not. It is harder to get 338 Win mag in factory because a bunch of polar bear hunters from the slope come down and buy it up. I really like 338 Win Mag in Nosler factory with 250 grain accubond. It sounds like the OP knows his stuff and will not be handicapped with it. 9.3X63 would be hard to find. But they do have it at Alaska Ammo.

They make excellent 30/06 ammo and bullets these days. It can do a lot and always has done a lot. However, 35 Whelen is an excellent choice when you expect to hunt a lot by yourself. Never know when a grizzly or brown bear gets a hair up its butt. Shot placement is everything but heavier grain bullets have more of an impact in knocking a bear down than lighter ones.

35 Whelen would be great. I doubt you'll need anything bigger. My favorite bullet in 35 caliber is 250 grain Hornady, if you need it a Nosler Partition would be better for bears perhaps.
A newer Model 70 Classic would be a good action to consider too.

Good advice.

One may see .35 Whelen at some of the stores every now and then, but that's it.

All of the documentation I've seen says a 220 gr 30-06 outperforms 35 Whelen. I've had one and a 338-06. Sold 'em both and would take a SS Winchester 70 or Ruger in 30-06. If you don't feel comfortable with 30-06 and heavy bullets don't waste time with anything less than 375 WM.

I'd have to agree with Kobuku; every time I've been to the Sportsman's Whorehouse in Fairbanks they've had .35 Whelen ammo. Last October both the Sentry Hardware stores in Fairbanks and North Pole had a few boxes.

There is no shortage of 9.3x62 ammunition

Either of these would handle anything Alaska has to offer

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/nor...;utm_term=ammo&utm_campaign=ammoseek

http://www.luckygunner.com/93x62-ma...p-hornady-dangerous-game-20#rid=AmmoSeek

Privi also makes inexpensive ammo for getting familiar with the rifle

https://www.outdoorlimited.com/Prvi-PPU-9-3x62mm-Ammunition-PP91-285-Grain-Soft-P-p/pp91.htm

as I recall reading, the 35 Whelen is not approved for hunting Buffs in Africa, the 9.3x62 is.

as for rifles:

gunsamerica has 3 bolt guns w/walnut, CZ, SAKO and Ruger

gunbroker has 1 carbine walnut

hinterland has 1 rifle walnut

As much as I like the 35Whelen (owned several with yet another project in the works), the 9.3 should not be discounted in this decision. It is a fine medium bore and will do everything a 35Whelen will do and a bit more plus be a lot easier to find in CRF.

If I had to have a CRF 35Whelen, I'd buy an old JC Higgin M50 FN-98 action and have it fitted with a stainless 35cal bbl with 1:12" twist.

Time to learn ow to reload. There is tonnes of info on the net and it's not that hard.

I'd go whelen

Get a woman for warmth.

I'd go stainless and plastic and I'd likely run a 30/06 but if you get a case or two of ammo the Whelen would certainly be fine.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Dian: I will concede that synthetic stocks and stainless is the way to go in AK, notwithstanding the success many Alaskans have had with carbon steel and walnut, SS/synthetic sure would cut way down on maintenance/rust prevention.

Sitka deer: I didn’t realize shipping cost on ammo would be so cost prohibitive in AK. I do understand that the ’06 is highly effective in AK and this would probably be the most logical choice, regardless of my desire for a Whelen or the CZ 9.3x62 for that matter. I also understand that .35 Whelen/9.3x62 ammo is highly unlikely to be found in a remote town. I have addressed this issue in the past by taking 2 rifles/ammo when I travel to remote areas, in case of a problem. Should I decide to go the Whelen route, I would find a factory loading in the lower 48 & then purchase a couple of cases before traveling to AK. The Whelen would also likely give me the motivation I need to start reloading.

stevelyn: For some reason I have always shied away from the ’06 and I’m not sure why – perhaps it’s due to my fondness for the .270 and since I'm looking for more of a jump in size/power over the .270. Since I have some time, I will certainly consider the ’06.

boliep: Thanks for the offer, but I’m not a big fan of the Hawyeye due to the 1:16 twist rate.

Dogslife57: I did consider the Ruger (M77), but by the time I customized it to my liking, I could probably just get a Montana AVR/SS or V2. Laying in a supply of .35 Whelen before I move to AK and before I start to reload was/is the plan.

mart: Based on my research & a guide friend of mine in AK, I tend to agree with your assessment of the .35 Whelen. Additionally, from what I have learned about reloading so far, your recipe for the 250 grain Nosler Partition sounds like a winner.

las: I appreciate your, SD’s & 458’s comments regarding .35 Whelen ammo availability, and I realize and agree that you correct on this point, but as stated, I do have a plan to address this issue. + I’d hate to get an ’06 and then start reloading, only to find that I wished I had bought the Whelen! I have never been interested in ‘new-fangled’ cartridges; I much prefer the age-old, tried and true calibers.

kaboku68: Good to know that .35 Whelen factory loadings are available in AK. You have also confirmed what I have read about the Whelen, namely, that it’s an awesome AK caliber. The ’06 is still in contention as is the 9.3x62.

Bugger: I think it’s a great idea to rebarrel a new M70 to .35 Whelen, but again, the cost of doing so would put me into Montana AVR/SS or V2 $ territoty. I’d like to have a custom, Mauser built, but the cost is prohibitive for me.

Ray: a 220 grainer ’06, would certainly be good medicine, which is why the ’06 is still in contention.

stlooiearch: Yep.

SuperCub: Agreed. Current line-up, in order of preference: 1) Montana Rifle Co. V2 (ruled out) custom Mauser, rebarreled M70 or modified M77 in .35 Whelen, 2) CZ 550 carbine or 550 American in 9.3x62 – is a 20.6” barrel adequate for this caliber? 3) M70 in ’06. I will look into the JC Higgin M50 FN-98 action. & yes, I agree it’s time to learn to reload.


Best advice in this entire thread, and an important consideration for my impending move to AK - but not quite as important as the caliber/rifle I choose - I do have my priorities straight. When I was in AK in the early 90s, I did see several cute girls, but I was much younger then. What’s the female situation like now in AK? Considering I am now 47, I have my concerns. & yes, I’d travel to AK with a couple of cases of .35 Whelen/9.3x62, depending on my ultimate decision.

I've shot most stuff up here with my Whelen, almost exclusively using 250gr bullets, and have never found it wanting. I also don't shoot factory ammo and aside from one old box of federal I saw covered in dust on a shelf in Kodiak years ago the Remington stuff is about the only factory I've seen.
I also haven't been impressed with the Montana rifles I've handled and worked on regardless of calibers. I would much rather get a Ruger and sink some money into customizing it to my liking. In fact my Whelen is a M77 I rebarreled and tweaked.

Get yourself a used press and some basic reloading stuff at a garage sale or gunshow and forget the factory stuff. You'll shoot more, shoot better ammo, and won't have to worry about availability. Before you fly into the bush scatter a few extra rounds into each pack, camp box, or drybag you're taking that way if you forget or loose your ammo you'll at least have two or three. There's no TSA at the floatplane dock so you won't have to worry about that.

The point being, forget WALNUT for 'warmth'

That's what I was afraid of regarding the Montana Rifle Co., which is why I was looking at custom Mausers in the first place. Several years ago, when I was looking at building a custom Mauser based project that never materialized, I was considering a Montana barreled action, but I read too many negative reviews for it to be a fluke and I ruled them out. Since I have an older M77 in .270, I considered using it as a base for a .35 Whelen build, but at this point in time, I don't think I want to get involved with the expense/time/hassle to do so. Of course, the CZ 9.3x62 carbine or 550 American is an attractive option as I find my 6.5x55 CZ 550 American to be a very good rifle. But perhaps I'll keep searching for the right .35 Whelen Mauser on the gun auction sites & tweak it as necessary. Also, good advice regarding a few extra rounds in each bag/pack/camp box.

Duly noted. Poor word usage on my part.

One low cost option you might consider is to find a good FN Mauser in 30-06 and have JES Reboring bore it to 35 Whelen. There are a lot of different suppliers who all used the FN Mauser actions for their rifles and can be found for not a lot of money. Rebore by JES will run you about $250. You'd have a good CRF 35 Whelen for not a lot of money. You might even find a Sedgley Springfield or Winchester 70 reasonable enough for the project.

The odds are good but the goods are odd.

Take a hard look at the Nosler patriot outfitter rifle. It's a dandy.

Yes, it's certainly a nice rifle, but it's a push feed, which rules it out for me.

Good advice. I’ll look into that.


That’s not what I wanted to hear! At 47 and divorced, I have too much experience with crazy/neurotic females - life’s too short to have to deal with raving lunatics. For that matter, life’s too short not to have a .35 Whelen!

No different than its ever been.

TFF!

Why not get you a 375 Ruger. It is beltless 375 caliber. Has the trajectory of a 30-06 with more energy. I have used mine for deer and elk. Did less meat damage then my 270wsm.

http://www.ruger.com/products/guideGun/specSheets/47125.html

http://www.ruger.com/products/HawkeyeAfrican/specSheets/37186.html

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/116ALASKANBRUSHHUNTER

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/16BH

http://www.mossberg.com/product/mossberg-patriot-laminate-marinecote-adjustable-rifle-sights-27910/

http://www.howarifles.eu/10.html

cause he wants a Whelen, which would be more than good enough for me.

I had a 700 in 06 rebored by JES and its good with cup and core, not quite so good with TTSX into 338-06... I solved the ammo issue, I hauled a bit over 100 rounds to AK with me when I left the rifle up there. Should last a bit.

I am going to get another 100 rounds or so loaded down here sometime and haul a bit more up there. LIkely to end up with 500 rounds or so by the time we move up hopefully.

Bet I can't find 338-06 on the shelf, but as long as I dont' loose the ammo on a flight/trip somewhere I"ll be fine.

That’s not what I wanted to hear! At 47 and divorced, I have too much experience with crazy/neurotic females - life’s too short to have to deal with raving lunatics. For that matter, life’s too short not to have a .35 Whelen!
[/quote]

I read recently that 60% of all women are on meds for emotional or mental health issues. That's terrifying. That means the remaining 40% are running around unmediated.

Oh man! That made me laugh!

A man isn't afraid to hunt Coastal Brownies, arguably the most fearsome animal on the planet, but is terrified of unmedicated women running around! But I have to agree. I too would rather face down an enraged Brownie than some of the crazy women I've dated and come into contact with! At least with the Brownie, it will be over quickly!

As I mentioned, I prefer the old classic calibers.

& like roast495 pointed out, I do want a Whelen!

I have found a number of FN Mausers, including a JC Higgins Model 50 and a Colt Coltsman for under $500.00 that could be the basis for a Whelen build. Since I have time, I believe I'll wait and keep looking for a Mauser custom build in .35 W on the auction sites before taking the plunge into building one of my own.

"The odds are good, but the goods are odd", is an expression that Alaska women use to describe Alaska men. This has to do with the real or perceived notion that the men to women ration in Alaska is heavily skewed to having more men.

As I like to describe it, Alaska is the only state where fat chicks have their choice. And, as they say, in Alaska, you don't lose your woman, you lose your turn....

It's even funnier some dummy thinks a 06' will kill as good as a Whelen... wow...

Anyone have any experience with E.R. Shaw? Apparently I can have him build a rifle in .35 Whelen on a Mauser action I supply for a very reasonable price. I have read that he is a competent gunsmith and builds very good rifles. What say you?

Edit: Never mind, the wait is WAY too long.

I would, and am going 700, 22" hart #3 12 twist mcmillan hunter...

I'm sorry but I don't see the allure of any mauser action...

Sorry, I'm not taking the bait.

Not baiting you or being a dick, I just wouldn't build or buy a mauser action anything, just my opinion... matter of fact if someone gave me one, I'd dispose of it properly so someone else didn't have to deal with it. But I do love a 35 whelen, it sure as [bleep] ain't no 06, thank God...

Little worse than an idiot pretender... maybe his mother will wise up and take away his computer privileges.

Line was written by a good friend here a number of years ago... my table, my whisky.

Art you poor stupid donkey, hopefully you never had kids....

Please feel free to tell everyone the benefits and virtues of a mauser action.... Laffin

As I stated at the beginning of this post, I did not want this discussion to devolve into an argument between the merits of CRF vs. push feed. Both name calling and insults are counter-productive.

I'm guessing killing is as a mystery to you as is f*cking.

Having built a few rifles on milsurp mausers on a budget, a 35 whelen with a midway barrel and a 458 lott with a ruger #1 takeoff, I'd say the result is a heavy clunky rifle that will cost more than a new factory rifle and won't do anything better and in many ways is a step backwards.

Now if you're looking for a classic custom rifle by all means get a good smith and go all out, but you're looking at $3k minimum and can easily go higher if you go for a custom wood stock and fancy metal work.

If you want a decent sporting crf 35 whelen start with a Ruger M77 mkII or Winchester 70 and either have them rebarreled or rebored, or better yet find one of the Rugers so built by the factory.

There are a lot of ways to try and save a buck and end up with less than what you really wanted, been there done that more than once. There's also figuring out what you really want, paying what it costs and being done with it.

Posted for interest sake.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...Mauser-35-Whelan?p=12760837#post12760837

This is of no help to you, but this M98 Whelen just popped up FS here in Canada. Bit expensive as the stock would need to be swapped out. I personally knew the bbl maker and his 35cal bbls all shot well.

No not at all, you?....

Geez Scotty, he's probably only 13 years old. Give the little bastid a break or bend him over your knee. One of the two...

458Lott: Thanks for the dose of reality. You, of course, are correct. I do realize that building a classic, sleek, custom Mauser is an expensive proposition. I know this from my previous attempt at building one a few years ago - everything I wanted (almost) was well north of 3K, in fact it was $5,770.00! - and this was with no fancy metal work - save a 3 panel bolt. This is why I was looking at the gun auction websites - my thinking was that could find a nice custom Mauser in .35W, which some poor slob already went to the time and expense to build, at a substantially reduced price. In my many months of looking, so far I have only found a few. One that would meet my requirements, included dies, brass, loaded ammo and the original stock but it's priced at $2,600.00, which is more than I wanted to spend.

I think you have the right idea in terms of finding a M77 or an M70 and converting, or in the case of the Ruger, possibly a factory .35W. As mentioned, I do already have a M77 in .270, which I find to be a good rifle, but I really wanted this new rifle to have a sleeker profile, carry easier, and be a bit more refined than the M77, as I find the M77 to be a bit clunky and lacking the natural, easy, 'pointability' I am looking for in my new rifle. The M70 comes much closer to what I am looking for in this regard. I believe I could find a used (new model) Winchester M70 Sporter or Extreme Weather SS in .30-06, and swap out the barrel for a .35W Douglas, with a 1:12 or 1:14 twist, screw it on, and be done with it – and at a cost that is palatable to me.

That would be funny!!.... Haha

SuperCub: Apparently, I do not have access or permission to view the link you posted. I was asked to 'Log In.'

I could see an extreme weather as a 35 whelen. For me, if I were going this route and looking for good balance and pointability, I'd start with a 30-06 and have it re-bored by JES for $250.00 and be done with it. Of course, taking into account it had a McMillan hunters compact stock already installed. Kind of like this rifle:



Now that would be bad azzed..

Paul, pretty sure you have seen some of my mausers... but thinking especially about a 32 Mex in 7x57... very hard to call it clunky or slow. Even tougher to call it heavy at well under 7 pounds, loaded, scoped, and slung.

There is tremendous variety in mausers and everything from incredibly handy to a monster is an option... doing the work yourself puts them into inexpensive play.

Not that its rebored or a 35 whelen, but one of the best shooters I've seen over the years is a tupperware 338 Win mag in a Rem 700... I bedded the gun and loaded Barnes for it and its shot some 3 shot groups at .25 inches or so at 100... its pretty solidly under MOA for 5 shot groups at 100, and it holds accuracy way out there too.

FWIW don't discount just getting something that you like rebore it and don't sweat the stock so much, I'd rather sweat the finish for AK hunting... that would be the most important.

Of course I don't feel that CRF is an issue either, but thats totally your choice.

I've watched millions of rounds of rapid fire in NRA matches go off without a hitch with Win 70s and Rem 700s that I don't sweat it.

Agreed. I did find a FN manufactured M70 Extreme Weather SS in .30-06 with a Zeiss Conquest, McMillian Featherweight, full mag fill option, and Decelerator. At $1,200.00, it's not too bad.

My only concern with the M70 Extreme Weather SS is the weight. 7 lbs. 2 oz., sans scope, is a bit light for a .35W, then again, a scope, rings/bases, sling, and a full mag would likely bring it to a bit over 8 lbs. - probably perfect.

You might consider abandoning your current account and starting over. As it is you have no credibility, no clue, and no chance of being accepted as anything other than a loser...

Just saying...

Art I didn't come here to gain credibility, have a clue or anything else you search here for, I'm sorry you and others lives revolve around a web site... Very sad...

Sitka dummy, read, re read then re re read the first sentence. Now do it again, savvy?? Pass the whelen.... Hint

I really like the FN manufactured M70 Extreme Weather SS in .30-06 I found for sale. I believe this the direction I will take upon my graduation.

I look forward to getting such a rifle, converting it to .35W & tweaking it to my liking. This will be an excellent opportunity to begin reloading as well.

Any suggestions on a beginning reloading set-up that can be expanded upon?

I'd get a rock chucker kit.. But I'm not very credible... Grin

especially since you can't even spell.

I previously checked out the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme kit, which looks like a good value. However, I'll probably try to find a used kit in order to save $. Any brands I should keep an eye out for? Is it wise not to mix component brands when building a kit?

That would work wonderfully as long as the barrel can be punched out that far. A simple call to JES would confirm this. Here's a picture to show how much meat is there to work with. I'll bet they can punch it out to 35 cal:



Your questions about reloading can be answered in the big game reloading forum here. There have been many threads on what equipment to buy and what the beginning handloader should foucus on. Good luck with that venture. It's been good to me and I have not used factory loads for hunting for a loooooooong time.

Thanks bsa and duly noted, I will check out the reloading forum.

Also, other than cost, is there any real advantage in going with a Douglas SS Barrel, rather than a JES rebore? Are there any drawbacks to a JES rebore, i.e. accuracy issues? I know that the M70 Extreme Weather SS comes with a fluted barrel, so that may be a concern. Should I decide to go with a Douglas barrel, is 22" an optimum length and what about the # of groves?

Tough crowd, and you cry and whine about folks being smartasses on here...

Look for cabelas or somone to run em on sale, or start checking the classifieds here and there and pick up pieces as you go. I like rcbs and Redding...

Buy a Rockchucker, mine was $70 used and is from the 70's. The paint may flake or fade on them but they don't really wear out. Get a set of FL dies, I make all my brass from 270 brass necked up in one pass and trimmed to length, my dies are RCBS. Get a balance beam scale and a powder measure. A Lee priming tool will be way faster and less headache than fiddling with the primer arm on the press, they cost like $11.

Buy some RL15, 4320, 4895, or 4064, they'll all work though my rifle prefers 4064. I've never had primers make much difference in this caliber and mostly use the CCI34 because I got a deal on a bunch of them. 250gr bullets of your choice and you're pretty much all set.

I'd say if you shop smart and buy used dies and press, get the Lee primer tool and I even hear good things about Lee scales and measures though I haven't used them, you should be able to get into everything you need to start for $225 maybe less.

There are several RCBS presses on Ebay right now for $75 or less either buy it now or with no bids. The $225 I hinted at may leave room for a pound of powder and a box of bullets

So lets sum this up:

the OP is going to take a "position" not a job

he is planning on getting a 35 whelen, clearly inferior to the CZ 9.3x62 he could buy for about the same money.(he already owns a CZ, so no learning curve)

if he MUST have a whelen, he is doing it the hardest way possible by reboring something else, is spite of no shortage of factory CRF 35 whelens for sale

now, because all 35 whelen factory ammo is inferior to that available for the 9.3x62, he's thinking about reloading

can hardly wait until we move on to a scope for the rifle.

stlooiearch: You’re making this sound like I’m some sort of idiot. My apologies if I offended you in some way. I posted my questions on this forum because I respect the knowledge and experience here. I’m not oblivious to the fact that there are others with far more experience and knowledge than I and I appreciate everyone’s input. But to address the points in your post:

1) I stated that I have an opportunity to take a position in AK. I used the word ‘position’, because it is definitely different than a ‘job.’ A job is simply paid employment that usually does not have permanency and offers little in the way of advancement or job satisfaction. Jobs usually have a stringent, set of performance elements (duties, responsibilities and tasks – usually menial), which must be accomplished in order to both keep said job and to be paid. A ‘position,’ on the other hand, is a career with a high degree of autonomy, which requires specific knowledge and a specific degree to succeed, and further, can provide an individual with a high degree of fulfillment, which is important to me. Having had jobs and careers in the past that I did not particularly care for (other than the paycheck) I can tell you that it’s a miserable existence working day-after-day at a job or position that you loathe. I have undertaken a very difficult and expensive path in order to accomplish this and be able to provide for my young daughter.

2) While I respect your opinion, I don’t believe that the .35W is “clearly inferior” to the 9.3x62. Granted, the 9.3x62 is an excellent caliber and can handle heavier bullets, but I think they are in the same class and any ballistic difference is negligible. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am still interested in this caliber and I certainly do like the CZ 550 carbine, which is still in contention and which is likely a more logical choice. The main reason the .35W is my first choice is due to the fact that it is .30-06 based and ammunition and components are plentiful – more so than the 9.3x62. I have also seen several .35W factory loads that would easily meet my needs, such as the Buffalo Bore TSX 225gr. Supercharged and the Nosler Partition 250, gr., just to name 2 of the many offerings.

3) Regarding your statement that there is “no shortage of .35 Whelens for sale,” the only CRF factory .35Ws I have seen for sale in current production are the Montana Rifle Co. AVR or V2. I have also seen a few used M77s and Hawkeyes in .35W, but I believe they are now out of production. If you know of other factory CRF .35W rifles for sale that I have not considered, please let me know.

4) No need to wait to find out about the scope. I will use a Leupold VX-6 1-6x24 or a VX-3i 1.5-5x20mm with Talley Q/D rings.

I'd go this route, right off the bat. You aren't going to find a better deal:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-Rock-C...7?hash=item2eee77540f:g:9d4AAOSw4hdXH4Gs

Thanks bsa!

There are several good brands on the used market but RCBS and Redding lead the pack. There is nothing wrong with a single stage press made by RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Hornady, or Lee. They'll all give you good service. Check out the local yard sales and guns shops. You may stumble onto a perfectly serviceable press for not a lot of money.

There is no issue mixing brands. With the exception of a couple of oddities, the dies are all 7/8-14 threads and interchange between brands of presses. RCBS and Redding make good dies and are readily available. I have and use dies from RCBS, Redding, Lyman, Hornady, CH4D, Pacific, Herters and Lachmiller with my RCBS and Lyman presses.

I use an RCBS 505 scale I've had since I was 18 and also have a simple electronic scale. Either will serve you well. It is not necessary to buy a powder measure until you get to a point you're loading a lot. For a few boxes of practice loads and hunting loads you can get by nicely with a scale, and a Lee dipper set. Some my most accurate 35 Whelen loads I turned out with a Lee hand press, a small digital scale and a Lee dipper set. All of my reloading gear was packed and in storage while we were living in a small apartment waiting for our house in Washington to sell.

If you get moved up here to Alaska shoot me a PM and I'll help you get started with reloading.

TheKid: Thanks for the info.

mart: Thank you. Very generous offer. It will be 6-9 months before I get up there.

I would get the CZ 550 Kevlar Carbine in 9.3x62 and be done with it. It won't take more than a week or so to have one in your hands.

That's a great option. There's also the Zastava. I believe they make them in stainless too. However, I think the OP is pretty dead set on the 35 Whelen..

Guess you missed my previous post.

"your post: 3) Regarding your statement that there is “no shortage of .35 Whelens for sale,” the only CRF factory .35Ws I have seen for sale in current production are the Montana Rifle Co. AVR or V2. I have also seen a few used M77s and Hawkeyes in .35W, but I believe they are now out of production. If you know of other factory CRF .35W rifles for sale that I have not considered, please let me know."


my post: "as I recall reading, the 35 Whelen is not approved for hunting Buffs in Africa, the 9.3x62 is.

as for rifles:

gunsamerica.com has 3 bolt guns w/walnut, CZ, SAKO and Ruger

gunbroker.com has 1 CZ carbine walnut

hinterland.com has 1 CZ rifle walnut"

As for the 9.3 vs the 35, most African PHs prefer the former.
Boutique ammo (Buffalo Bore) is not the same as Barnes,Hornady or Norma.

Partition are fine bullets but Barnes are better (again see what PHs suggest)

Barnes offers in their VOR TX ammo

Cartridge 9.3 x 62mm
B.C .411
Box QTY 20
Weight/Type 286 TSX BT
Velocity 2355
Catalog # 21577

would hammer anything

Barnes also offers a 250 gr bullet that may be pushed to 2600 fps with handloads.

BTW 9.3x62 may be made from 06' cases as Ken Waters demonstrated in his book Pet Loads.

I own two of each plus a 9.3x74 No. 1. think the only reason the whelen exists is that back then 06 cases were easy to come by and metric cartridges were pretty much unknown/disliked.

guess my age is showing. jobs are what we had to get $ to entice the ladies into interesting positions.

sounds like a grand adventure ahead for you.

True and an excellent choice. I have not ruled it out by any means.



I didn’t consider the Zavasta, which I’ll look into. I’m not necessarily dead set on the .35 Whelen. My reasons for ranking the .35W first on the list are as follows:
1) Availability of many different types/brands of factory ammo. A simple internet search on wikiarms.com or ammoseek.com will conform this.
2) .30-06-based, so reloading components are far more plentiful – especially brass.
3) Several options in terms of CRF rifles that could be converted to .35W

Obviously the CZ 550 carbine in 9.3x62, would be easier in terms of simply purchasing the rifle, but factory ammo options are somewhat lacking when compared to the .35W – especially in terms of the bullets I typically like, i.e. Nosler Partition, Barnes, North Fork. For some reason there seems to be several 9.2x63 factory loads that use the Accubond, which may be fine for caribou, but I’d definitely prefer a more heavily constructed bullet for bruins.

I vote for a Weatherby Vanguard S2 Synthetic in .375 H&H. It retails for $799 and can be had for less.

http://www.weatherby.com/vanguard-synthetic-375-h-h-mag.html

stlooiearch: Thanks for the clarification. No, I did not miss your previous post. In my estimation, Sako, although a very nice rifle is not a true CRF – it’s somewhat of a hybrid. I am obviously aware of the CZ in 9.3x62. The Ruger Safari/African in 9.3x62 looks like a nice rifle indeed! bsa1917hunter mentioned the Zavasta, which may also be an option for me.

As far as CRF rifles in .35W, the only complete rifles I have seen are used custom Mausers, a few Rugers and the Montana.

Regarding your statement that by going the .35W route, I am doing it the hardest way possible, I must respectfully disagree. Since a factory CRF .35W is a rare animal, I determined, with the help of the great members of this forum, that the most cost-effective way of getting what I want, namely a CRF in .35W with a sleek profile, that carries easy, and has great 'pointability' is to rebarrel a M70 or possibly a M77, but I don’t view the M77 MKII as excelling in the above characteristics. I think the most expensive and hardest way possible to do this would be a custom Mauser build through an experienced gunsmith. Doing such a build myself is an option, I am very mechanically inclined, but I have never undertaken such a project and I have neither the time, inclination or expertise to do so at this point in my life.

I am also aware that in some African countries, the 9.3x62 is approved for hunting Cape Buff., but that is not really of concern to me – unless I make a boat-load of cash, or one of my wealthy friends offers to take me on Safari – I’ll likely never get the chance to hunt the Dark Continent.

Since I plan to take up reloading for either caliber, I’ll be able to cook up whatever I want using premium bullets of my choice, i.e. Barnes, Partition or North Fork, etc.

As far as the job/position question is concerned, at 47, it’s difficult to have to face the fact that I am starting over, especially when the vast majority of my friends and family are well established and successful. Unfortunately, the successful business I had was devastated by the events of 9/11 and its aftermath. I’ve struggled to find my way ever since – not to mention the state of the economy and the problems it has caused for me. I am really past the point in my life where a simple job will allow me to accomplish what I want to in life. And though enticing the ladies into interesting positions is still of great interest, it’s not my primary concern at this point – providing for both my daughter and my future is much more critical, especially in this new liberal/PC world that has devastated our economy. Hopefully, things in the U.S. will begin to turn around in November.

If I was going to get a non CRF rifle, I would definitely consider an Accumark, but for dangerous game, CRF is my strong preference. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

High noon, if your are seriously considering getting into reloading you could go with the 9.3x62mm. That's one of my favorite cartridges. Very comparable to a 35 Whelen. I would buy Nosler partitions for very reasonable prices at SPS (shooters pro shop) if that's the kind of bullet you like. I've seen the blemished/seconds 286 gr. pills sell for less than $20.00/box. That's why you see many of my 10 shot and 5 shot groups posted here... . Anyway, I'm not going to tell you one is better than the other. Or for that matter, why a 200gr. nosler partition in the good ol 30-06 won't work as well as either of those 2 cartridges either. Hell, I might even try to steer you into getting a 338 win mag or 375 H&H since you are talking big critters. I like them all and shoot them all, can't say enough about all the bigger cartridges I enjoy shooting. Either way, it sounds like you are level headed enough to make a good decision...

Wow. Just tuned into this discussion, had to go check the calendar, thought I had missed a few months and winter had set in the way the hash was slinging here. My only advice on the 35 Whelen, PM Mart when you are in AK and need some help, I think from my limited PMs with him, he will help you a lot. Good luck.

Can hardly wait until your worthless ass moves on permanently. FOAD

bsa: Thanks. I’ve been planning on taking up reloading for many, many years. I have several books on reloading and a few manuals as well. I’ve even goon so far as to design my reloading bench. Unfortunately, life has taken precedence. Since I’ll basically be starting my life over upon my graduation, I plan to make several major changes. My life is more than half over and I’ve come to realize that I need to make the most of what time I have left. Part of that equation is doing more things I enjoy, which will include more shooting, hunting and reloading.

I’m aware of the ability a .30-06 with 200s or 220s. I am also aware of what my .270 M77 MKII loaded with 150 gr. Nosler Partitions is capable of. In my estimation, the 9.2x63 is a substantial jump in power over the .270 or even the .30-06. I am more of the school that believes in large chunks of lead thrown at moderate velocities.

Notwithstanding my .270, which is somewhat high-intensity, the recoil of the .338, which I view as high-intensity, is sharp and is at the limit of what I can easily tolerate. The .375 H&H is also a bit past my limit. What I like about both the .35 Whelen and the 9.3x62 is that they are not belted magnums and that the recoil is easier for me to tolerate. I have also shot a friends .45-70 Marlin Guide Gun w/ 350 grained pills and I found it to be manageable. If I’m honest with myself, I need to accept that as I get older, recoil will become more of an issue.

I am confident that when the time comes for me to purchase this rifle, I will make the right decision. I really can’t go wrong with either caliber, where I can go wrong is with the rifle I choose.

deleted

Thanks Maggie. Mart has very generously offered to help and I will certainly make contact at some point in the future.

My 35 Whelen on a pre-64 Model 70 action



Shoots pretty good with Federal Factory Ammo. Ill load up a bunch after I run out of factory stuff.

Very nice! & a nice grouping too!

I saw the St. Augustine grass in the photo, and thought you must be in Texas. I was correct.

I keep waffling between the CZ 550 Kevlar in 9.3x62 and the M70 Extreme Weather SS either bored out to .35W or with a Douglas. A difficult decision. My concern with the CZ is the twist rate of 1:10 and the delicate trigger, but the trigger could easily be replaced with a Timney. From all accounts, the B&C stock on the M70 Extreme Weather is crap & would have to be replaced as well. Perhaps I can find one that already has a McMillan. At least with the M70, I could specify a 1:12 or 1:14 twist rate. Still leaning towards the Whelen.

High Noon-

Check your PMs. The flashing envelope icon near the top.

LARRY ROOT, poor misunderstood LARRY ROOT...

there corrected.

just who is this guy you are so concerned about ?

btw, who might you be ?

If stuff doesn't go right on a hunt or two..u would be hard presses to bum a few whelen rounds much ...much less some 9.3x62.....just saying

Hard pressed …....

That, of course, is very true. It would be interesting to know just how often this happens. I have never had it happen to me, nor have any of my friends had it happen. I have also read where someone traveling to Africa gets separated from their ammo, but I know no one who has run into this problem. I am not discounting the possibility, but it seems remote to me. Also, TheKid had the great suggestion to scatter a few rounds in each bag, camp box or backpack. Taken a step further, you could also put a box of ammo in your buddy's pack and he in yours. I think such a tactic would go a long way to mitigating this problem should it ever happen. But maybe I am naive?

I've heard of it too, but I don't know anyone either.

Plus I take 2 rifles to any outing, one way or another...

The ammo thing is overated IMHO. If you can loose the ammo, you can loose the gun too...

That said I"ll probably loose my ammo in Sept... be about my luck anyway.

That being said, ATV is correct, the ideal situation, everyone shooting the same round. MOre ideal the same ammo.

I just do like others, keep a sleeve in the backpack, a sleeve in the clothes bag and so on. Plus keep 100 at the house if had to drive back, but on fly outs, the best suggestion, would be a checklist.

It would appear we have another Root sighting.

Not saying it couldn't happen but I've never run out of ammo on a hunt nor forgot to take my ammo on a hunt. I always have some extra in my day pack and more either in the truck, on the four wheeler or at camp. I have gotten to the range a time or two without ammo but that's usually because I got distracted by a phone call or a question from the wife while I was loading the truck. I have a checklist prior to leaving for my hunts. Probably should have one for the range.

I shoot some unusual rounds. The 35 Whelen and 300 H&H are not that odd but neither are likely to be in your hunting buddies pocket. I also go afield with a 400 Whelen, 6.5x53 Rimmed (256 Mannlicher), 10.75x57 and 6mmx222. I've never killed a head of big game with factory ammo.

The availability of factory ammo or the possibility of running out in the field has never been a factor in what I choose to carry afield. I think that argument is pretty much without grounds. Yes, airlines can loose bags, ammo can get lost, but split it up between a couple of bags and depending on your airline's rules, leave some in the case with the rifle. If your traveling with a friend or family member have them put a box in their baggage if it's that much of a concern. Two hunting buddies traveling together could each carry an extra box of the others ammo to minimize the chance of lost bags and ammo.

It was mentioned the 35 Whelen is inferior to the 9.3x62. That case could be easily made but in that same light it could be argued the 9.3x62 is inferior to the 375 H&H which is inferior to the 404 Jeffrey and right up the line. The notion that one round is inferior to another, while it may be true, does not mean the "inferior" round is inadequate for the job at hand. The 35 Whelen is more than adequate for all North American game. Inferior to the 9.3x62? Perhaps. Inadequate for Alaska? Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Exactly.

You could also say the the recoil of the .375 H&H is superior to that of the .35W or the 9.3x62. The point is, that an argument can be made for almost anything. 78.6% of people are aware of that fact.

Back to the original topic. I'd look for a M77 Hawkeye all-weather if I were you High_Noon. I went the semi-custom route using an M70 action, PacNor 1:12 #3 barrel and a McMillan New Hunter stock. Right at 7.5# with the 4x scope.

Now that is an extremely sexy rifle.

Very nice rifle. I'd like to go this route. When I get a chance, I'm gonna' run the numbers on how much it would cost me to get either a cheap CRF SS Ruger or M70 in .30-06, a Douglas (or other) barrel, Timney, McMillan w/ Decelerator, Talley QD rings & bases, NEGC Iron sights. I imagine I could do most of the work myself and have a gunsmith install the iron sights and maybe slick up the action, in needed. I can also probably glass bed the action myself. The advantage, of course, is that I'd get exactly what I wanted, but I guess the finished product meeting my expectations is a bit of a gamble.

If it was me I think I'd want a flatter shooting caliber.

I live on Kodiak and I remember reading a Craig Boddington article about when he visited Kodiak to hunt deer with a 35 Whelen. It turned out that all the shot opportunities were too long for the caliber (country too wide open) so he ended up using the guide's 300 WM with 150g bullets to shoot his deer.

In a light rifle to get a flat shooting round you either need to go for less powder or a smaller caliber (less lead). Personally I use a 260 remington (both less powder and less lead!) and it seems to do great in a light weight rifle - and I feel good out to 400 yards. But clearly there are lots of options out there!

It just seems to me that a 35 whelen would a little limiting in terms of longer range stuff.

Patrick

Agreed, which is why I also have a .270 and a 6.5x55 SE.

Craig wrote several versions of the same story, just not the true version...

You won't need to do this with the newer M70 actions (mine is a BACO made in S.C.) Pretty much why I didn't go the M77 route. They are a far stretch form what I'd call slick . . .

Yep. Even my 25 year old M77 MKII is still not what I would call slick. I like Ruger rifles and they are workhorses, but they are not refined at all, which is why I'd prefer a FN M70.

Is your PacNor barrel 22"?

That's a beautiful rifle, but there's a reason you went this route and not that of the Ruger Hawkeye. I've seen them for sale on Gunbroker many times: There's actually some there right now. It's the easy solution for a totally useable utilitarian rifle. I do like the Ruger, but it is not a Winchester. Plain and simple, the reason you are showing off your beauty of a 35 Whelen model 70 . I've had many Ruger 77's and hunted the hell out of them, but in the end now have no Rugers and mostly only Winchester model 70's. Who would have thunk??????

Your second sentence explains where your judgment got fu cked up or should I say it nicer: Skewed. The Col. has probably led many people astray with his magnumitus ideology... Just sayin...

That's what I'm leaning towards, fueled by 24hcampfire 9.3x62 mania. I'm keeping an eye out for a good deal on a M70 Classic in .270 Win to rebore to 9.3x62. I'll have a (I hope) great rifle, and I will have removed a .270 from the gene pool - it's a win/win. ;-)

Would love to hear the true version.....

But yet archery hunter after archery hunter continue to kill bucks, velvet and non velvet year after year.... I'm sorry if Dumbington couldn't get 300 yards from a Sitka dummy....

A Moose or Brown Bear at 400 yards ?

What say you Phil ?

The 9.3 sighted in by the O'Connor rule (+3" @100) would be within "minute of Moose" to 300 Yards which is a long poke.

Guessing Boddington was shooting a Sitka deer ? Just a tad smaller than a Moose or Brownie. shuda taken his 8mm remmag (in case he met a bear)

Things change. Gun writers wrote about belted magnums and we all thought we needed them.
Then Ruger came out with the beltless cartridges.
I have a 35 Whelen and love it. I almost bought a Ruger.375 but got the H&H instead.
People love to split hairs. It is a form of recreation.
You could get by with Nosler 200 gr 30-06 shells or you could buy a 35 Whelen. Who cares?
Certainly not the bears.
I don't understand spending thousands on a custom Mauser but not wanting to pay much for reloading equipment. Your call, none of my business

My two longest shots on game in AK have both been Caribou. One was 370 and one at 389. The 389 was done in with a 257Wby but the 370 yarder fell to the Whelen. I've also killed and seen killed a good number of Kodiak deer. I've never had trouble closing in to easy range for the 35.

wheelnut: If you’re addressing me (OP) with this comment, I don’t intend to spend thousands building a custom Mauser. I would certainly consider purchasing a previously built (used) Mauser-based custom (1909 Argentine, K98, VZ24, Obendorf, or FN Mauser) if the price was right and if it had all, or nearly all, the features I was looking for. I’ve yet to make a decision, but with the help of the great members of this forum, I’m weighing my options. I’m not in a hurry either.

As far as not wanting to pay much for reloading equipment, I see nothing wrong with purchasing used reloading equipment. Why pay retail when you can save a good chunk of change by buying used equipment that is perfectly serviceable?

And this is the difference between hunting and shooting.

The super hunter caint figure what 12"-14" is in field conditions??? The handful of guides I've hunted with are right, high$ hunters are phuquing idiots... Who da thunk it... Amazing what a college education can getcha...

Please elucidate those obvious errors you perceive...

This will get interesting... or not...

Oh lord art, here's a quicky, factory fodder zero'd@ 100 for conversation....

I can only imagine a good 225 or 250 would drop wayyyy more... Grin

For conversation, most folks would sight in at 1 1/2"-2" @ 100, or am I that stupid Sitka dumbphuque???

Please note Sitka donkey, I said 300 yards, your big homie quoted 400 yards, does stupidity come easily in Alaska???

You think we're talking about a 45/70 or 444 Marlin dumb dumb?? Wow+p

Ahhhh, somone has er figured out...

Sorry, thought you had two brain cells to rub together... I was clearly mistaken.

Was addressing Judchild...

Very sorry Sitka dumchunt, a whelen is only a 200 yd cartridge... Good talk!!

Oh my "credibility " is shot!!.... Some of you hardcore Alaskans!!!... Grin

Can we please dispense with the BS and get back on topic? I'm not here to sling crap.

Sitka donkey loves me.

Simply get a whelen and "hunt", you'll rule the roost up there... Key word is "hunt", several resident "Alaskans" like to "shoot" they're mouths and imagination...

Kevin-
Are you aware of the 'ignore function'?

It's wonderful.

Make sure you click ignore cause I'm "wrong"...

You're an ignorant jackass.

Seeing "*** You are ignoring this user ***" is a good reminder of who the ignorant jackasses are.

Don't waste the bandwidth princess, click ignore....

Get what ever you want and be done with it.

Its been a number of years since I ran the numbers of the 9.2/35/338-06 and maybe one more before I built the 338-06.

But IIRC the 35 whelen certainly wasn't any worse to speak of in drops and such than my 308 Win with 185 bergers.

Lets just say I"m not afraid to run the 308 out to around 750 to 800 yards any day, and only not furhter because I've never gotten around to getting firm fired drop data on it past that distance.... even though I have my JBM charts changed up to match current trajectory, I don't shoot past what I've actually fired distance wise.

So I would not worry about a whelen limiting my distances.

Heck, have run the 223 to around 600 on deer and to 1000 on paper

You have already received more than your share of warnings against a 35 caliber, so I will not go that route. I'd suggest you make a hard decision on the platform first, such as a stainless NH M70. Then find one that is turn key in decent shape that is long action, preferably chambered 30-06. You can run that gun as chambered while you decide on stock, sights, etc. Then, either re-bore, or better, get a quality 35 barrel having the correct twist to run the 35 bullet you need stabilized. Likely at that point, you will need to reload to maintain a reliable supply of 35 ammo loaded to your desired specs.

Do not follow current pricing, but I recently found a stainless NH M70 FW 30-06 that was near new in box for $400. I would much rather deal with that as a base platform vs all the headaches dealing with a Mauser, if building a rough and tumble workhorse on the cheap. I'd expect to expend more time and money on the most common found Mauser's today, vs the common found M70. As for the CZ, they have more tiny pieces and parts in their trigger group alone than a 98 Mauser has in the entire rifle. So to my taste, by the time I rid the CZ of those rube goldberg parts, an out the box NH M70 makes more sense. Even a stainless Ruger 30-06 with its Mauser like large and robust parts would be a good choice for such a tool.

Likely if you narrow your search for a factory 35, you will find few, and even fewer with your needed twist.

Ignore works for psychopaths too, like Larry, Karen and Brian...

Range finders and dials/reticles/drop charts have really mooted range issues for just about any reasonable cartridge at previously unreasonable ranges.

My Whelen AI was written up in the American Rifleman in the '70s and I used it quite a bit for years and have shot deer, moose, caribou, and black bears with it. My issue with it relates to folks showing up without their ammo. I have seen it quite a few times.

Even had a poster from here show up without the bolts for his rifles... He split them up from the rifles when checking them so no one would steal them!

unless the OP is a rifle loonie, i cant see why he wants to mess around with someone elses trouble, a custom build from something else, when there are perfectly good 35 Whelens and 9.3x62 rifles available from well known factories.

if he wants a whelen, get the Ruger 77, plenty out there
if a 9.3 get the CZ, plenty out there

i'd be taking my 375 H&H as the choice of loads plus availability is better than either of the aformentioned.
it aint no heavier, it always feeds and extracts/ejects, a 235 tsx shoots as flat as a 180 06' and the 300gr tsx will settle anythings hash.

Judman: While I respect everyone’s opinion, including yours, it is your vitriol to which I object. I may have been wrong, naïve or misguided in some of my statements, but I have posted no mean-spirited comments, nor controversial opinions, yet from the comfort of your own home, you feel comfortable calling me a ‘princess,’ and you have called others, whose advice, experience and knowledge I respect and appreciate, vulgar names as well. I don’t know your motivations for being on this forum, but I can tell you that such an attitude is diametrically opposed to winning friends and influencing people. There’s a way to present your opinions without being ill mannered.


Mike: Duly noted.


True, and good advice, but I need to figure that out what that is first! While I realize there is no such thing as the perfect rifle, I’d like to get as close to that, within my budget constraints, as I can.



rost: Currently, I do not have the skill to comfortably and reliably take game at such great distances. A select few riflemen do, however, and I respect their abilities. I am comfortable taking game up to about 350-400 yards, less if possible, so I limit myself to such distances. More practice might increase this, but I find satisfaction in closing the distance as much as possible before taking the shot. I’m not worried about distance limitations with the Whelen, or the 9.3x62 for that matter.

GaryVA: Thanks for the excellent post. I agree with all your points and I like the idea of going the semi-custom route with the M70 in .30-06. I have plenty of time to decide on a caliber (.35W or 9.3x62). A new barrel w/ the twist I want is likely the direction I would take with such a ‘semi-custom’ build. I also realize that building up a Mauser action can be both time consuming and expensive, which is why if I wanted to go the custom Mauser route, I’d find a used one that has already been completed. In my view, the problem with the older Mauser actions is the relatively low-grade carbon steel that was used in their manufacture, and while it’s not a huge concern, the steel used in modern actions is obviously much stronger. For me, the primary appeal of a Mauser action (other than CRF) is the beautiful machining and superb function. Modern actions with such attention to detail are exceedingly expensive i.e. Granite Mountain Arms.

I’ve also read about the myriad of small parts found in the CZ trigger, which could potentially be a bad recipe for a rifle that would also be used for defense. Apparently the CZ550 Kevlar carbine in 9.3x62 I’m looking at has a 1:10 twist rate, which I don’t think is optimal for this caliber (please correct me if I’m wrong). I do like the fact that the CZ is Mauser-based and I like the dovetailed receiver as well. So I think you are correct, the M70 (or possibly a worked over Ruger M77 MKII action) is likely the best route for me to take to get the rifle I’m looking for.

Sitka Deer: Your comment regarding range finders and dials/reticles/drop charts is certainly true. I’ve even seen scopes that integrate all these features into their design and perform all the calculations for you! But it’s like I tell younger geology students, if your GPS and mapping software crash, your battery dies, or your GPS/tablet is dropped and breaks, or it rains, etc. you still need to know how to run a Brunton and read a topographic map.

Anything can happen and obviously, forgotten ammo isn’t limited to the .35W. A person can show up for a hunt without his .338WM cartridges and you may only have .30-06 ammo, or a fella with a .300WSM might show up without ammo and you only have .338WM rounds – or .35W rounds, the possibilities are endless. As far as that fellow showing up without bolts, well, I can only say if someone takes such a step to prevent theft, they’re probably a lot more likely to get a lesson in Murphy’s Law!

stlooiearch: Your suggestion is still an option. As I’ve stated many times, I haven’t made a decision yet. I’ve also considered that by purchasing a used custom Mauser, I may indeed be purchasing someone else’s trouble. .375 H&H is a good option, but I find the recoil above my tolerance levels.

"stlooiearch: Your suggestion is still an option. As I’ve stated many times, I haven’t made a decision yet. I’ve also considered that by purchasing a used custom Mauser, I may indeed be purchasing someone else’s trouble. .375 H&H is a good option, but I find the recoil above my tolerance levels."

the difference between these 3 cartridges is very small.

my A-bolt 375 is a lot nicer to shoot than my springfield sporter in 9.3 or my 35 whelen no. 1

it comes down to weight, stock design and recoil pad.

All true. The only .375 H&H I've shot is my buddies M70, which kicked like a pack of mules.

I just found a very nice looking Ruger M77 MKII in .30-06, 98% condition, for $200.00, but I'd much prefer an FN M70.

Me too. But bird in hand....thats what, about 450 with the rebore.....

Yep, an attractive price, no doubt. At a minimum, with the Ruger action, I'd want to skim cut the receiver face and lap the lugs.

Not on a rebore you won't. Unless you are putting on a top line barrel like a Rock, Krieger or such, I'd not waste time.

Especially for a 400 yard gun.

My 338-06 rebore is just fine for 400 yards, no lugs cut, no truing etc... just rebore/rechamber and done.

It really doesn't take much for a 300-400 yard gun.

And if you are going to do all this truing work then put something top line for a barrel on, not a douglas.

IMHO.

Duly noted.

I just read that at 1:12 twist rate for the 9.3x62 is probably optimal and a 1:10 is also good, so the CZ 550 Kevlar carbine w/ the 1:10 twist would be a great option, just needing a Timney trigger replacement to avoid potential problems with all those small parts. Slap a good scope on and I'll be good to go. Sounds a lot easier than foolin' with a conversion to either this caliber or .35W. If I can find a used, customized Mauser in either of these calibers for less, that'd be a good option too.

I'd not get my pants wadded over "optimal" twist rates. When I built my Whelen I had the choice of a 1-16" SS barrel blank for $40 or any twist I wanted for $225 and up. I went with the 16" twist because I was just a poor kid. It will shoot any 250 I've ever fed it into groups 1.5" or less and shoots the old 300gr Barnes Originals that I have a stash of into right around 1". Unless you're planning to shoot some long pointy 35 bullets that I'm not aware of any commonly available twist will work. 16" was about the only twist rate on all things 35 made in the US for forever and bullet makers know that.

If building from scratch and prices are the same absolutely get the tighter twist, but don't let it shy you away from a good deal on a factory or used custom rifle. It is a 35 caliber afterall and not a 223

My bad that was for ironbender certainly not you, sometimes the response icon doesn't tell the tale. Getcha a whelen and go smack some critters

TheKid: Thanks, and a good point.

Pretty sure she was aiming that at me.

Ya I was...

My mistake. Apologies.

I just received the Guns International newsletter (via e-mail) and there's an interesting Guns & Ammo article on the .35 Whelen. Odd that I'm considering that caliber for my next rifle and I receive this newsletter. Coincidence or is a higher power directing me towards the .35W?

http://www.gunsandammo.com/ammo/rifle-ammo/the-35-whelen-story/

Just accept that it is a higher power directing you to chose what is simply the finest North American big game cartridge to ever be developed.

Do my eyes deceive me or did rost495 just suggest someone get a Ruger? Someone check quick, I think hell might have just frozen over.

No worries. Put her on ignore and enjoy life.

Patrick, I really miss Kodiak and hunting there. Oddly, the only deer I killed with my Remington 7600 Whelen while I was there was at about 25 yards. It was down in a mostly dry Creek bed out near Saltery Cove. Blactails are't terribly wary in my experience. I was usually able to close the gap to 300 yards without any trouble. Sometimes the terrain doesn't cooperate though.

High Noon, good on you for being patient and polite through all this. The Whelen will serve you very well with premium bullets. Be patient. Stick to your choice. Something will come along. I will certainly keep an eye out and drop you a line if I find a good one. Get into reloading. It's a great way to kill time in the winter. I got into it in Kodiak and spent many an icy day at the bench.

I thought you Alaskans had a little thicker bark.... Whinner..

Paul, Thanks very much and thanks for your offer to keep an eye out for me, very generous of you.

High Noon, you shuda been watching the classified here.

just bought an FN actioned 35 Whelen with a fantastic figured stock for less than a very basic 700.

it was a great deal, wish it had been a 9.3x62 but too good to pass up.

you've been an excellent poster and I only have one question left. Why are you so hung up on the whelen when the 9.3 is superior by any measure ?

good luck !

Thanks & good suggestion. I will watch the classifieds.

I have already addressed your statement regarding the 'superiority' of the 9.3x62. But to answer your question in a different manner: I'm not 'hung-up' on the .35W, but I realize it may appear I am, based upon this thread. While I recognize that the .35W and the 9.3x62 are both excellent choices, and while I may have a preference for the .35W (for various reasons, already discussed), I will likely opt for the CZ550 Kevlar carbine in 9.3x62, unless I can find a deal on a used Mauser-based .35W (or a 9.3x62 for that matter) such as the one you found in the classifieds on this forum, and which has the features and characteristics I have mentioned in this thread. I've run the numbers on converting a FN (or SC) M70, and to get what I want is just too expensive for me at this point in my life. With the CZ, all I would need to do (all I would want to do) would be to change out the trigger for a Timney and slap on a Leupold VX6 1.5x6x24. I'd then have an easy to carry, fast to shoulder powerhouse suitable for Brown bear and lesser beasts. I have plenty of time to make my decision, so I will see what I can find in the coming months.

Please post photos of your new .35W, when you get a chance.

The whelen can push 225's 2700 and change. Sure something that pushes bullets over 3000 fps will shoot flatter, but you still need to deal with drop past 300 yds. And the thought of dealing with brown bears in the alders with 150 gr at warp speed isn't comforting.

Exactly. This is precisely why I'm considering the .35W & the 9.3x62.

And because of those alders any real bear defense rifle is going to have a very short tube, like 20". Those little bullets at real velocity would make some gawdawful noise...

Which is another benefit of the CZ 550 Kevlar Carbine in 9.2x63, which has a 20.6" tube. I like the idea of running the 320 gr. Woodleigh Weldcores for bear defense with such as set up.

Buy and bring as many rifles in 30/06, 35 Whelen and 9.3X62 as you can. You will be able to sell them for a profit if you are here before hunting season. There is a dearth of really good used rifles up here because we buy and competitively go for the same rifles that folks bring up. There should be more big CRF rifles in gunshops and pawnshops in the L48 than up here.

That being said, I haven't seen as many 9.3X62 rifles as the other choices. Maybe they have a bunch down in SE Alaska but other than Bud Conkle and Bill Etchells. I taught with a shop teacher who had a 9.3X74 Drilling but I haven't seen or even heard of other hunters using the 9.3X62. But what do I know, they might be super popular in Anchorage.

I know that hunters from the L48 bring them up but they generally take them with them when they leave. I have personally seen more 505 Gibbs and 500 Jefferies rifles than the 9.3X62.

I just looked that rifle up. Where's the like button on this thing?

kaboku: Great idea on bringing up a bunch of rifles. Unfortunately, I’m still a lowly grad student and cash poor at the moment.

I’m sure you are probably correct regarding the numbers of hunters using the 9.3x62 in AK. I imagine the caliber will only increase in popularity in the U.S., with American manufacturers (& Norma and Lapua) now offering factory loads in the U.S. No matter the latest and greatest super ultra magnum, short magnum or whiz-bang super-duper magnum, the old classic calibers just will not die, for the simple fact that they work and they work well. I’m no expert and have no direct experience with this caliber, but in my estimation, the 9.3x62 also falls into this classic category, while new-fangled calibers come and go.

Paul: I’ve not seen a ‘like’ button on the forum, but maybe someone will chime in and tell us.

I too really like the CZ 550 Kevlar Carbine for the reasons I have listed. I just wish it was also available in .35 Whelen.

I like cold weather more than I like the damn 100s here... LOL.

Agreed. It's been brutal in El Paso - up to 105-107 last week. I hate it.

Damn, thats where you are at? Only 8 hours away from me. LOL.

Its a bit warm out there for sure!

Humidity is killing us here lately.

You in El Paso?

Yep. Completing my masters in geology at UTEP.

I'm just 45 minutes North of where you are.

Cool. We should get together and blast stuff... When it cools down.

"When it cools down" Yup about October or so!

Yep, and only 11 hours from Dallas, my hometown. I much prefer the weather in Dallas, the dry heat here is absolutely brutal - it's like an oven set to broil. At least we get rain in Dallas, which I miss dearly.

I realize I'm late to the party, but if I could toss in this idea . . .
http://www.realguns.com/articles/596.htm

Very handy and plenty of authority. You can find good deals on them in the $600-700 range.

Sounds like the perfect Alaskan rifle.
For Minnesota I will stick with the 225 gr Nosler Partition at 2,700 fps.
Moose, black bear, and deer beware.

Looks like a good option. I would like to stay under .375, but I will consider it.

Holy crap! Bring a come-a-long!

Just in case you are still dragging your feet on the reloading issue, there is a really nice looking RCBS Jr press in the classifieds here on this site for cheap. Get it, you won't regret it.

High Noon,
A man with your education and income should be able to have several rifles.
If you reload your own ammunition the rifle instantly becomes very versatile.
For example I bought a 375 H&H magnum for my son so that he could come bear hunting with me.
Now I use it for deer with either a Sierra 200 gr.
or a 220 gr Hornady @ 2,200 fps.
Very dramatic killer on deer.
But with 270 grain bullets at 2,700 fps it is a lot better suited for African big five. My advice is to think less about rifles and more about reloading.
A Handloaded 220 gr. NOSLER in a 30-06 would be big enough for what you need in Alaska IMO.
A 35 Whelen with 250 grain bullets at 2,400 fps is nothing to sneeze at either.
You have a very versatile rifle once you get away from factory loads.
A 225 gr Partition @ 2,700 fps is "flatter shooting" than most people can utilize.
whelennut

An RCBS Junior was my first press. I loaded a zillion rounds on it before I stumbled into a near give away Rockchucker at a yard sale.

Great press. Wouldn't be afraid of it a bit.

Good to know. I’ll check it out.

wheelnut: Thanks. The income will come later, when I can find a decent position, which is no easy feat these days with the collapse of the energy industry, etc. but I understand your point. I agree that reloading should be at or near the top of the list and to that end, I have been reading up on the subject. Reloading will definitely be part of the equation. Regarding both the rifle and reloading, I have plenty of time to find the right rifle and equipment, but I’ll have to limit my purchases while I am completing my thesis. I can tell you that I’m real tired of being a poor grad student. Most of my funds are directed to supporting my young daughter at this point.

I started with the big one and sold it before moving to AK. Bought a Jr after I moved up and haven't used anything else for nearly a decade now. Great little press.

Holy crap, a grad student with a child. That would make me nervous as hell.

Best of luck on that!!! Can't imagine married, with child bills and grad school bills and no job all at the same time. Scary.

Actually, it's a lot worse than that. I'm an older grad student (47) and divorced. My Federal Student Loans and my work at the University as a Research Assistant are all I can rely upon. Which is why I need to finish my thesis and get my fargin' degree and get to work! When I started grad school in geology, West Texas Intermediate was nearly $130.00/barrel and the outlook was great. Then oil dropped to around $28.00/barrel and that rosy outlook evaporated. I'm not at all optimistic that my offer of employment will still be there when I graduate, hence my "when I can find a decent position" comment. I know a few people who had offers from oil companies that have been rescinded.

Whelen all the way. I have a 700 Classic and a Winchester Model 95 in .35 Whelen as well as a Remington 673 in .350 Remington Magnum. Also a Winchester Model 71 in .348. I love my 35's!

I will do all I can, which is say a prayer.

I do know a gal that works in a big oil company supposedly in ANC, PM me when you graduate, or close to and the particulars of your degree, I"ll forward to her and see if the company uses that degree or not and if any thing possible open...

Jeff

Jeff: Thanks very much. I will certainly contact you when the time comes. - Kevin

Another vote for the Whelen! Perhaps I’ll find a used, custom-built CRF carbine in .35W that’s similar to the CZ 550 Kevlar carbine and at a similar price. Now that would be ideal, but likely wishful thinking.

If you want to shoot a Montana Rifle Co. firearm,let me know and you can try mine out for schits and giggles.

It's a .338 RUM.

Spoke to Jes the other day about getting my stainless tikka T3 06 re bored to 35. Stainless is 25$ more. So 275 if not the basic 3 groove 1-14 twist.
What twist are you thinking of doing and why?

1:12 to better stabilize 250s & up, in .35W. The CZ 550 Kevlar Carbine in 9.3x62 has a 1:10 Edit: 1:14 twist rate, in contrast.

yup I want 1:12 as well. but I want 5 groove. everyone says 3 is fine but Im trying to learn what the differences are.
how many groove are you getting if re boring? or do you know much about that?
I can't seem to find much info on the 35 and what the difference is 3 vs 4 vs 5 groove.

High noon, I know you keep saying the CZ550 carbine 9.3x62mm has a 1 in 10 twist, but it has a 1 in 14" twist. Just like their CZ 550 Americans'. I can attest to how well they shoot 286gr. partitions, 285gr. Norma Oryx, 270gr. speers and a couple others. They know what they are doing in regards to twist rate and building barrels and rifles. Good luck with your endeavor..


CZ 550 carbine 9.3x62mm

Faster twists almost never hurt if available.

My rebore 338-06 JES did 5 groove win rifling. I"ve not many complaints, but to do next time I"d probably just go top of the line barrel instead.

I shot a lot of 3 groove in 223....

Shoot a 5 groove in 308....

Thats all the data I have. I"m a bit convinced of the odd grooves myself...

Well, I’m not an expert by any means, but any choice regarding the number of grooves is going to be somewhat of a compromise. I read a Practical Machinist thread which stated that the number of grooves does not affect stability and that there is little practical difference in accuracy; however, I also read (in the same thread) that different calibers in different rifles will sometimes favor a certain numbers of groves, but I am not certain how this manifests itself – possibly in accuracy. It seems as though ultra long range shooters favor 3 groove barrels, but I’m not sure why, though I can speculate that it’s likely accuracy.

Some believe that an odd number of lands and grooves is more accurate with an open based FMJ bullet. The theory being that the bullet is not squeezed as much between two lands, so less lead is pushed out of the base of the bullet affecting the accuracy. The number of grooves and depth of grooves can also affect drag, blow-by, and tendency to foul.

I read a post in another forum that stated: (paraphrased) The purpose of the rifling is to engage the bullet in order to prevent it from skidding down the barrel and in doing so it deforms the bullet so it fits the rifling tightly enough so that it cannot skid. The more the number of grooves is increased, the more the bullet is deformed as it travels down the barrel. So I think you want enough groves to grip the bullet tightly enough to prevent skidding, but not so much as to overly deform the bullet or cause excessive fouling or blow-by. I would think that 3 groves would be adequate and 5 bit much, but again, I am not an expert.

Basically, what it all boils down to is that this is all theoretical and I think that anyone who can give you a definitive answer, unless a true expert, is likely full of hogwash, but I could be wrong. I really do not know the answer to this question. My advice would be to contact you barrel maker and discuss the matter with him.

Perhaps someone with more experience will give us an explanation.

If i were a poor grad student I would buy the cheapest reliable 30.06 I could buy and a case of ammo and go kill everything that walks here. I would spend whatever money I had left and go hunting. Hunting here will cost you if you want consistently good hunting. It will most likely involve a plane or a boat. I know there are exceptions to that , but its a fair statement to say your choice of caliber from 06 and up shouldn't be your biggest concern regarding hunting here. There are much more important things to consider and plan.

bas: Thanks for the heads-up. The link you posted is where I got my 1:10 twist rate. I was looking at the .30-06 specifications and I did not realize that I needed to use the right scroll arrow to view the 9.3x62 specification. My apologies if I caused any confusion. The twist rate of the CZ 550 Kevlar Carbine in 9.3x62 is indeed 1:14, which I agree is adequate for both 250 grained pills and heavier.

Very true, but I do not plan to make a purchase or hunt (other than whitetails and feral hogs on a buddy's ranch here in W. TX) until I am employed and bringing in a good salary. I mentioned previously that the rifle under discussion here will be a graduation present to myself and I will not make the purchase until I can afford to do so and it's a financially responsible decision for me. I want to learn all I can now, so that when it comes time to purchase said rifle, I can do so with confidence in my decision. I also have a good buddy in AK that I grew up with and traveled to AK with in the early 90s, that ran his own guiding outfit for a number of years, I can be sure he would take me on a no-charge guided hunt, other than tags and incidentals.

Bingo my friend. Now here's how some of those heavies shot in my CZ 550 American 9.3x62mm:

Cool, sounds like you have it all dialed in. Best of luck in the future.

High Noon.... PM sent.

bsa: very impressive groupings in those photos!

BCJR: Thanks. Hopefully, my future in AK will come sooner, rather than later. I plan to work hard to make it happen as I've been trying to get back to AK since '91.

That would be great. Thanks. I'll contact you when the weather cools down a bit.

Thanks for the reply. That's the most sense I've heard after a month of asking.
Maybe I'll just do 3 groove 1-12.
I dont plan on shooting heavier than 250, but if I do, I can.
I know jes recommends 1-14, 3 groove

You should seriously consider JES’ recommendation. I’m sure he’s received feedback from his customers as to what twist rate works best in the .35W, as well as other calibers. Based upon bsa’s groupings in the photos he posted and the fact that he has a 1:14 twist rate, I believe it would be a great option. Of course, as rost495 said and as I understand it, a faster twist rate couldn’t hurt either, but I’d double check this with JES.

High Noon,

I know what you are going through. I just finished paying for my sons college.
Now maybe I can go on some hunting trips.
Go 35 Whelen and never look back.
whelennut

Thanks. The Whelen is definitely at the top of the list!

Ok.

High Noon, I wish you the best of luck...

bsa: Thanks very much. I really appreciate your kind words.

I'd also like to thank everyone who has contributed to his thread. Everyone has been incredibly helpful by sharing their knowledge and experience, and the generosity I have received from several of you is greatly appreciated.

High Noon,there's a Sportsman's Warehouse opening in Las Cruces next month. The store will have powder,dies,brass,bullets,primers and anything else you can think of.

Pictures?

I also asked for photos of this (mythical?) .35 Whelen.

Thanks for the tip. Gander Mountain opened in El Paso recently as well, but I haven't had a chance to check it out.

AHH, ye of little faith. Actually a 35W IMP. Stock looks like it's off/for a BSA as the cheekpieck and buttplate are exactly like my BSA 222.(also bought here from another outstanding member!)

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/11261600/Searchpage/1/Main/776345/Words/goldendomer04/Search/true/Re:_Beautiful_Fiddleback_FN_Ma#Post11261600

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/11261603/Searchpage/1/Main/776344/Words/goldendomer04/Search/true/Re:_35_Whelen_AI_-_Belgian_FN_#Post11261603


Apology accepted.

Have not been to Gander Mountain either. I go to Collector's Gun Exchange off of North Mesa (?).

Bought a Winchester M 70 SS .375 H&H there last year. That's a Weaver 3x with Talley bases & rings.

Link does not work.

Links work for me. You simply posted links to 2 classified ads: a FN barreled action and a nice stock in two separate classified listings, which sold on 6/21. Looks like it will make a fine rifle for whoever purchased the components.

Yep. Collector's Gun Exchange has some nice guns from time to time. A few years ago they had a .300 H&H, which sorely tempted me. Yesterday, I saw a "For Lease" sign above the store, but I didn't stop by to see if they were out of business.

That looks like a nice .375 H&H you have there.

I hope not! It's my favorite gun store in El Paso.

I'll check later today and let you know.

no photos here either.

Thanks.

Do a search for "belgian" in the last month and you will find it.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/11257441/Searchpage/1/Main/776344/Words/belgian/Search/true/Re:_35_Whelen_AI_-_Belgian_FN_#Post11257441

Link was screwed up.

Had the .375 re-stocked and this is what it looks like now.

They have a 50s era German 98 sporterized mauser with a K4 Scope at Alaska Guns and Ammo on 6th Avenue in Fairbanks for 550 dollars. It has a decent trigger and is a little heavy at 10 lbs scoped.

Basically it would be all you would need.

Ken,
Collector's Gun Exchange is no longer in the Mesa location. Apparently, they have moved to the East side.

There's also Sportsman's Elite, on Doniphan, but I find their prices to be very high.

Thanks High Noon.

Photo is not visible.

It is to me...

Thanks. Sounds good, but that is indeed heavy! Is it a .35 Whelen? I still need to wait until I graduate and I'm gainfully employed, though.

Now?

I tried clicking on the photo link and it acts like it is loading, but does not. I'll try again later. Edit: Photo is visible.

Interesting.

The photos just showed up - Looks like a nice rig. The new stock looks good - is it a Hogue?

nah, I just wanted to see if headinstool could ever figure out how to post a photo...

Do believe that's a Mark Banser stock... i.e. Hi Tech I thinks it's called.

http://www.legendaryarmsworks.com/high-tech-specialties-inc-stocks/

I was about to edit my post and say the new stock looked too refined and nice to be a Hogue. I've read about the Basner stocks and by all accounts they are highly regarded.

It's my first one and I like it!

With the old stock the recoil was pure hell on my shoulder,even with starting loads.

It's interesting how much difference a properly fitted stock can make in terms of recoil. Did you have a gunsmith fit the new stock to your proportions, or did you know exactly how to spec the new stock when you ordered it from Hi-Tech? Also, how would you compare the Basner stock to a McMillan? - I know they are similar in cost.

All I wanted was a 13 5/8" LOP and the rest is standard for that stock.

The gunsmith ordered it from Hi-Tech himself. Took about a month to 6 weeks to get the stock and bed,paint and add the recoil pad to it.

AFAIK,never owned a McMillian,so can't say anything about how they compare.

Paid $525 for the stock,bedding,paint,recoil pad and the labor.

Very nice rifle. Looks great..

Thanks BSA.

The few (3, I believe) SS M70 semi-customs, that have been posted in this thread all look like slick, great handling rifles - and are accurate and good-looking to boot. What's not to like?

" Looks like it will make a fine rifle for whoever purchased the components."

well mr. "I'm going to take a position although I'm still unemployed.", just who did you think bought it?

were you not so broke, I'd ask you to put your student loan $ where your mouth is.

it's on its way and when it arrives, I'll post pics of it for your edification.

you act more like 17 than 47, no wonder you had to try find a "guvenment" job.

be waiting to see your "mythical" rifle someday...........

Lets see… I seem to remember a “So lets sum this up:” post from you in which you ridiculed and mocked me for my statements. You then continued to push the superiority of the 9.3x62 over the .35W in several subsequent posts, but despite this you then purchased a .35W while attempting to make me appear foolish for not watching the classifieds. You gave me a backhanded compliment, tempering it with your “hung-up on the .35W” comment, knowing I’d already addressed this question from you. I’d ask you; if someone carefully worded his comments in a way that was obviously designed to belittle you, as you did to me, would you find that person sincere and convincing? Just read your malicious comment, which I quoted above this post. Look at the manner in which you worded your juvenile and vindictive statement, then ask yourself who is acting like a 17 year-old.

I don’t recall making any statements about a government job, being unemployed, or being broke, which is pure conjecture on your part and again, these comments of yours are vindictive and designed to belittle and ridicule. My university employs me. Maybe it didn’t occur to you that I have expenses, which take precedence over a new rifle at this point in my life. Maybe it didn’t occur to you that your comments are both highly inconsiderate and insulting and are a prime example of immaturity.

I will acknowledge that you have made a few useful comments here and if you would like to continue in that vein, I’d welcome your input; otherwise, I’d respectfully ask you to go straight to hell.

lol......

lol +1

Generally how things evolve when dealing with crazy people; just surprised it took so long.


Search term for unknowing:
site:24hourcampfire.com Larry Root

Hahahahah, Larry fuggin' Root gets bitchslapped by a newbie. Beautiful!

Nigh Noon, don't let the ignoramus bother you. He's that pesky biting fly you just can't seem to swat hard enough to get rid of.

As it always does, the truth will out.

You suckers will see the photos of the 35W IMP I bought right here.

You will never see High Noon's rifle as it will never exist.

watch and wait.

Not surprisingly, you entirely missed the point.

Yup,that's typical larry root.

And I'm still waiting headinstool

If I ever had to replace my Remington Classic 35 Whelen, I might think long and hard about a Stainless Howa 338-06.
whelennut

I've read that although the .338-06 may have better ballistics, the .35 Whelen performs better in the field, in other words it performs better than the ballistics would indicate. Having no first-hand experience with either, I would be interested to hear the opinions of those that have used both. Is the main advantage increased velocity? I guess you could AI the Whelen for an additional 100-150 fps, which seem like it's hardly worth the effort.

The animal will not know what it was killed with.

Main good reason for the AI is reduced case stretching... increased case capacity is not even good for 100fps in most situations.

It is slightly more efficient just because of the larger bullet base.

Sitka deer: Thanks.

No problem...

There I fixed it. Yes, I totally agree. I'll admit, after owning a 9.3x62mm and the 30-06 all these years I'm back to the 30-06 and sent the 9.3 down the road. There's not a whole hell of a lot the 30-06 CAN'T do with the right bullets.. ...Let's face it, how much more penetration and knock down power do you need than the 30-06 with a 200gr. partition? That's where I'm at in this whole debacle...

If only there were such a thing as "knock down power."

High Noon go for the 35 Whelen, I still miss the one I had and one of these days will do a pre 64 Model 70 in the cartridge.

bsa & Sitka deer: While I agree with your statements, how does the arbitrary term ‘stopping power’ play into the equation? What I mean is how does the caliber and weight of the bullet affect ‘killing power’? I thought I understood how velocity, sectional density, cross sectional area and energy played a role in bringing down a tough animal, but your statements have me questioning what I thought I knew. I do understand how penetration and bullet construction play a role as well. So why then is the .375 H&H a minimum caliber for dangerous game in many African countries? Sure, dangerous game can effectively be stopped with smaller calibers and shot-placement is key, but what are the advantages (other than recoil, perhaps) of using a .30-06 over a .35W or 9.2x63 – or vice versa – for any reasonable comparison one could make?

In the case of defending against a brown bear charge, would not a larger and ‘more powerful’ load be desirable? I personally have never been in such a situation, but I would think that in such a case that the 9.3x62 w/ a well-constructed 286 gr. Pill would be more effective than a .30-06 w/ a cup & core 200 grained bullet, and perhaps a 430 grained JFN in .45-70 would be better still at stopping a charge. Putting aside any preconceived notions, favoritism or arbitrary terms such as ‘killing power,’ my thinking is that penetration, along with shot placement are the most important factors in turning a charge or putting down a tough and/or enraged dangerous game animal. Of course, there are other intangibles such as field reports that state a particular caliber performed far in excess of what its ballistics would have indicated – should such reports be taken into consideration or discarded? So in this case, is the .30-06 just as effective as a larger caliber and if so why or why not?

raybass: Thanks. Hopefully, I’ll be able to find the right .35W when the time comes.

Happy Independence Day to everyone!

If I was going to be facing Brown bears it would be with a .375 H&H or bigger.

Brown bear wise, my buddy has guided since I can't recall when now...

His backup was 338 win mag and it worked all the time. He now runs 416 Ruger.

Just shot a pretty big bear for himself this year, first one for him ever. Said he wished he'd brought the 416. Not sure what that meant as I have not had time to talk to him since then. He has been busy and just sent a few pictures and htat note.

He has said before, that for some reason the only rounds he has been impressed with are 458 and 460, IF the hunter can shoot, those have been impressive stop/droppers.

Though many rounds kill.

Nothing said here on this thread would change my mind from 35 whelen as its what you want. Its why I went 338-06. Its what I wanted.

If specifically after big bears, I am likely to carry a larger round. Always wanted a 416 Rem and a 458 Lott for whatever reasons.
That said if it was a hurry up trip, I"d grab something smaller that I already had and realize my limits and just keep going.

45/70 lever for me

When guiding brown bears hunters my back-up rifle most of the time was a 300WM. Phil Shoemaker has plenty of pictures of very big bears he had to follow-up where he used a 30-06 to do it.

Back in the old days the 30-06 was considered the big stopper...

If not a cns shot all animals die the same way, a loss of blood big enough to drop blood pressure low enough to starve the brain and muscles of oxygen. An extra is breaking down running gear to make locating them easier.

Shock does not kill. The energy carried by the bullet was just handled comfortably at the shoulder and a lot was lost between the shoulder and the critter.

A bigger bullet means a bigger hole and a deeper hole means more tissue was disrupted and more blood is leaking. A leak on both sides means the blood pressure will drop faster. The exit wound is usually larger and the disrupted tissue points that way allowing more blood loss faster than the entrance.

All of this a drawn out explanation of why a single hole in the right place is critical. Taking the aorta off the top of the heart and leaving most of the rest of it alone will bleed an animal out in just seven heart beats. Destroying the heart muscle itself stops the positive side of the pump and the suction side. It strands a bunch of blood around the muscles leaving enough oxygen available for the critter to go amazing distances.

Simple answer is the bullet location is far more important... CNS shots are going to be pretty much same:same with any reasonable cartridge.

And what would you do if the bear you just hit at 40 yards was cresting the hill 250 yards away? Back-ups sometimes have to shoot a lot farther than ideal...

I was in a small gun shop in Fairbanks years ago and saw a box of Barnes Originals 35 caliber 275 grs. I grabbed them and am thinking if I ever get back up there to hunt Brown Bear that will be what I use. Maybe 52 grs of Varget? Just guessing.
Other than moose we don't have many big critters around here except a big black bear gets shot once in awhile by somebody. Fun reading about it though.

I'm building 35 W soon. But if I had to be in thick brush hunting bear and moose more than not 45/70 level will be just fine. I'm lookin at quick follow up shot if bear doesn't like the first one and decides to come at me.
If I have to shoot 250 yard with it, guess I'll have to aim 3' feet high

Picking a cartridge with severe limits in a reasonably likely scenario never made sense to me, but that is what makes the World go around I guess...

Thanks for the replies. For the most part, your replies confirmed my thoughts on the matter. My thinking is that if I were hunting anything up to and including brown bears, I could take the .35 Whelen/9.3x62 (whichever caliber I end up with) and have a rifle capable of taking any game I was after as well as one that would be adequate for defending against a brownie. (I differentiate between hunting and defending against brown bears as the latter is tougher). For non-hunting outdoor activities, I believe a .45-70 would be both a bit handier and have more than enough power (if that’s the right word) to take care of an encounter with a brownie.


I’ve wanted a .416 Rigby for quite some time. From what I’ve read and seen (I watched several mixed bag safari’s where the .416 Rigby was used) and I was impressed with the round’s effectiveness.


Although I believe either would be effective, for non-hunting defense, the .45-70 would be my choice as well.


Sitka deer: Thanks for your well-reasoned explanation; which confirms my thoughts that shot placement coupled with penetration is all important.

Hmmm. Like Sitka dumb fu ck said there's not such thing as knock down power. Why aren't you using a .223 Rem?

Has anyone considered a 7600 in 35 whelen? Cheap synthetic replacement stock, duracoat the steel parts($40) and you've got a fast repeater bear thumper!!

HN,have you thought about a .358 Norma Mag?

No such thing as stopping power in regards to shoulder fired hunting rifles. The only thing that matters is placing a good bullet in the vitals and doing sufficient damage to kill the animal. Stopping power is 99 1/2% shot placement provided one chooses a bullet that will penetrate deeply enough for the shot that is presented.

So we have everything from .223 to .416 awesome!
That really narrows it down.
I saw a gold miner with a Trappers Model 94 in .454 Casull. That might work?
whelennut

Here's a .460 Wby.

bsa: I realize your question was rhetorical, but, while I have no doubt a .223 pill to the brain would instantly stop a charging brownie, the odds of making such a shot are very slim indeed. I read about a fellow who shot a large feral hog at 40’ with a .35 Whelen and he stated that it blew fragments and blood 30’ feet out the other side of the hog. Can the same be said of the .223?

I am not an expert, but I have done quite a bit of reading on this subject and I do have some understanding of physics. My understanding of ‘knockdown power’ is that it’s largely an arbitrary term. If we define knockdown power as the ability of a specific cartridge to cause enough ballistic trauma to immediately incapacitate, then we should review Newton’s Second Law of Motion (F=ma), which summarized, states that the speed and mass at which an object travels determine the energy it imparts. A heavier object traveling at the same speed as a lighter object will impart more energy, and if we think of this energy as kinetic energy, or ‘shock’ as Sitka deer defined it, we must realize that this transfer of energy, in and of itself, is not a sufficient or reliable killer. Kinetic energy may stun, but cannot be relied upon to kill, in most cases. I think the potential to do enough damage to immediately stop a threat requires more than just energy transfer. A true one-stop shot will rely more on a combination of shot placement, penetration, and kinetic energy transfer rather than how much energy alone a bullet can deliver to a target. So unless we’re dealing with a howitzer, I think the term knockdown power has little true meaning, in terms of hunting cartridges.


mitchellmountain: I haven’t, but I can see the appeal.


Ken: Yes, I’ve definitely considered the .358NM. I read great things about this cartridge. The reasons I prefer the .35W and 9.3x62 is because they both have quite a bit less recoil and because I prefer a non-belted cartridge.


458: I wrote my reply (above) before I read your post. It sounds like we are on the same page.

Ken: I'm rather surprised that jack rabbit wasn't turned into a red mist, but then if you were using a stout pill, it probably passed right through without any deformation at all. Very nice rifle, by the way.

The .460 is loaded down to where it won't pound my trigger finger to a pulp.

Never understood the aversion to a piece of brass. If you want to shoot a .358 NM let me know.

Ken: Yes, I do want to shoot a .358 NM. Thank you. Regarding the brass, it's not the belt, per se, rather it's the increased recoil, muzzle blast and the 'magnum' designation. I've never been crazy about magnums when 'lesser' cartridges can do nearly the same thing and be more pleasant to shoot.

A .35 Whelen can't do "nearly the same thing" that a .358 NM can do.

If it's recoil then stay with the Whelen,nothing wrong with it.

I didn't realize the .358NM was so much more effective, and yes, recoil is a concern.

It can send a 250 gr bullet 2700+ fps.

My .358 NM.





http://www.norma-usa.com/index.php/products/ammo/cartridge-of-the-month/158-the358-norma

Ken: That's a beaut! Is that an M70? I can't wait to shoot it!

Ruger M 77 tang safety.

Now I got to load some shells for it.

Nice rig elkhunternm.

Cool gun and caliber...

The 358 NM is an awesome cartridge even in a 22" barrel. The Norma and the 358 win are the only two 35s I could give care about. I had a 35 Whelen but happily convinced myself into a 9.3x62.

Why? What's your reasoning?

I had a 358 Norma for a while and it is a really good round, 2750 fps with 250's and 3070 fps with the 200 gr TTSX from a 22" barrel. I have had a 35 Whelen for many years and decided the extra 200 fps of the Norma wasn't worth it to me for the extra recoil. Other's may feel otherwise but I am more than happy with the standard 35 Whelen for my "big" gun.

I have a Whelen AI in a 7600 and due to concerns about the reduced extraction from the pump gun I full length resize and back off top end a bit with it. Turns into a couple compromises that I would not do again...

Considering the source, I feel better knowing you are too slow to see the obvious, idiot.

deleted

High_Noon,
I wanted 9.3x62. The 35 Whelen is a decent cartridge but feel I get more out of a 9.3 performance wise on game. Additionally, I have a handful of medium bores and often what is above or below, or lack there of, dicrates what stays or gets replaced. I think we all kinda do that. I am not terribly fond of 35s anyway. I had made a short 20 inch rem 700 358 win and that gun was an awesome woods rifle/berry picker. And befor I got my own, I saw a mountain side full of game taken with the 358 Norma by my good friend. I like the big Sweed. Again, nothing wrong with the 35 Whelen but I'd rather have a 9.3x62 over one.

What else is there to say? The 35 Whelen is a rifle that shoots bullets. I'd be happy. With a 30-06, 338 wm, 35 Whelen, 9.3x62, or 375 H&H.

Sounds reasonable to me. I too am considering the 9.3x62. For me, I think what it will boil down to is what rifle I can find that has the characteristics I'm looking for, be it .35W or 9.3x62.

The 358NM is a different breed of cartridge from the Whelen... It has 375H&H type performance (and recoil) with a little lighter bullets and recoil. I had a 721 rebarreled for the cartridge and it is the single worst piece of machining I have ever seen. The leade is completely missing on one side because the chamber is so far off-center! And that is only one of MANY special features...

Big name smith, too.

Sitka deer: That really sucks. Did the smith refuse to stand behind his work - did you not have any recourse?

It is a bit more tangled than that... barrel is useless, action would likely cost more to fix than it is worth and the smith is dead.

I'm sorry to hear that. Getting screwed like that is really frustrating. I'd be lying if I said I haven't considered such a scenario with a semi-custom or a custom build.

Try this with a 9.3 - Hint: they don't make 0.366" dia pistol bullets.

thats probably exactly why I should have done the whelen instead of hte 338-06. But from young up... I wanted a 333 OKH and the 338/06 was as close as I was willing to go vs really odd sized bullets..

Of course its not the first or last "mistake" one will make. LOL

Still intrigued by 400 whelen....

Got to spend some time with Michael Petrov and his 400s. He also showed me through his forming processes. Pretty cool cartridge, but a PITA to load for.

I can imagine that part PITA, but thats part of the fun sometimes.

WTF if it was grab and go, one could just grab a 375 HH and be done for about everything needed and find ammo about anywhere to boot. I've noticed that while 06 is probably more common, I"ve seen 375 of various flavors in almost every place we've ever looked...

With all this 35 love going around, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the grand daddy of them all, the 350 Rigby Magnum



Belted magnum performance without the belt, and feeds slicker than snot with it's gradually tapered case.

Downsides would be ammo availability, brass availability and load data being scarce. But it'll handily push a 250 gr bullet to 2700 fps with 66 gr of RL15 or 71 gr of H-4350 and the one I had made would group under an inch.

Now that would be fun to use in Africa.

Wow! That's cool. I've never seen a .350 Rigby before.

I found a .350 Rigby double that includes over 500 rounds of custom-loaded Superior Ammunition (250 grain bullets, .348 Winchester cases), but at $18,500.00 it's just a bit out of my price range!

$76.97 for 20.

http://www.qual-cart.com/35%20cal.htm

I built mine on a 98 action



It's essentially the same case as the 375 H&H sans belt, a tad shorter and with a 45 degree shoulder. It also pre-dates the 375 by two years. Bertram makes brass, but it's soft crap, Hornbear makes excellent brass but it's hard to come by. You can also tak 375 brass, chuck it in a lathe, turn down the rim, cut a deeper extractor groove and turn off the belt. Then fl size and hopefully the neck sets back far enough, then trim to length.

458: That's awesome. Have you tried the .348 Win. brass? Your method sounds quite involved.

Is the recoil comparable to a .358 Norma Magnum?

Although expensive, it's not too bad. I've seen both .35W and 9.3x62 at higher prices.

The 348 Winchester is much too large in diameter, 0.553" for the 348 at the case head vs 0.502" for the Rigby.

I've never shot a 358 Norma but would imagine recoil would be comparable. The 350 Rigby as originally loaded was on par with the 35 whelen, but with modern rifles the Rigby is essentially a 358 Norma in a different package.

Yes, forming brass was a PITA, but is an option. I came across a closeout deal on Bertram brass and bought 100 cases but as mentioned they are very soft and can't handle full pressure loads.

.... Just for giggles....

I once heard a comedian that offered a story something along the lines of: a well educated college graduate is down on his luck and took a job at a factory running a drill press. He was to drill a hole thru a bunch of steel plate and screwed up the whole stack...
Foreman, named Tex, tells him, "boy I'm going to have to let you go".
Man replies, "you know, I have a college degree!"
Tex tells him, "Well son, you best go back and take the class on drill press operatin'."

This got me thinking...

MtnBoomer: I now see the integrated dovetail mounts, which I missed the first time around, ya' bastard!

9mm Makarov is .365". It is close enough to shoot well in my 9.3 bore. Moreover, one can always seat a Mak JHP backwards if the 9.3 bore is a little too generous. The HP becomes a miniball type skirt. .366 meplat is a wicked wad cutter. May not feed from the magazine though.

Here's recoil.

[img]http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg546/elkhunterinnm/th_IMG_2782.mp4[/img]

I think the guy's reply was actually, "I'll have you know I graduated top of my class at Cornell!" Then Tex says, "Better go back and take the class on drill press operatin' "

Cheers.

Nice. Looks fairly stout.

It is. I'll show you the scar on my trigger finger,whenever we meet up.

Ken: sounds good. I'll tell you I am so tired of this heat - it was 105 in downtown El Paso today, and to think that we have 2.5 more months of this heat is too much to bear.

Yup,it's hot.

Just wait till it (if) starts raining,hot and humid.

Oh and been living here most of my life,so kinda/sorta used to the heat.

I grew up in Dallas, so I'm very familiar with hot and humid, but El Paso is a much different kind of heat. I find it much more intense here + as I get older I find I can't tolerate it nearly as well as I used to. In a word, it's miserable. I miss the rain. Whenever I think to myself how f'in hot it is here, I check the weather in Anchorage on my phone, which only makes it worse!

We need the rain that's for sure.

Love it when it rains in the Summer,the humidity and heat afterwards,not so much.

LOL< I check the weather in Delta Junction AND Anchorage....

Learned something new . . . What powder/velocity? W-231 is my powder of choice with pistol bullets in the Whelen at around 1,200 fps.

Out of my 9.3x57 Husqvarna 146

95 gr Hornady Makarov bullet
13 gr Red Dot (C.E. Harris "The Load")
CCI 200
necked up 8x57 Prvi Partizan brass
IIRC FPS around 1600.

I also use combo as a fire forming load for new brass. Squirrel head size groups at 25 yds.

deleted

That might be the grand daddy, but this one would be the first born after that.

350 G&H Magnum ....... 375H&H necked down to 35cal with not other changes.

High Noon!

You should try to make it up to Armijo Springs/Quemado next week!!!

Bob

What's happening in Quemado next week?

It's a 24hourcampfire get together.

Go to the Armijio Springs,New Mexico thread on the Hunters Campfire and there you can get an idea of what it is about.

Looks like it will be a fun time. I may be able to make it. I have my daughter on Friday and Saturday, but her mother has been very difficult lately and I'm not sure whether or not she'll cooperate - 6 hrs. one way is a long drive for just the day. I will work on it.

I think if you can figure it out one way or the other it would be worth it. Relaxing and some super fine folks!

Agreed. Everyone who has participated in this thread has been great and very helpful.

Put it to you this way HN,you will never laugh so hard,eat so well,meet fine people,so in other words have a HELLUVA GREAT TIME!

I'd go in heartbeat every year if I had enough time off. Alas that is not the case.

Some of us will be there most of the week.

Yup,to keep Bigfoot away from the area.

Well put my friend...

I will try to make it out on Saturday. I could definitely use some R&R + I've been promising my daughter I'd take her camping & shooting. The weather looks like it will be nice as well.

On a more serious note: The downtown building in Dallas where my brother lives, was the one in the news that was surrounded by protesters yesterday. He and his young son heard the shots as the terrorists-protestors opened fire on the police. Both he and his son were shook-up, but they are ok.

Good news that your brother and his young son are ok.

Thanks Ken, it was a scary situation for them and a bad day for Dallas and the Nation.

Tonight the building across the street from him was evacuated due to a bomb threat.

Good grief!

Ken is a real pal, High Noon!!! I love him like a brother!!




And I'm glad your brother and nephew are ok!!!

Thanks Bob, y'all definitely look like a couple of characters!

Just got dialed in for the deer opener (Aug 1) tonite. 57.5 gr IMR 3031 200 TTSX zeroed @ 150 yds. On target for warmest year on record. Big fatties in the alpine. Wish me luck.

Luck.

Good luck MuskegMan. Post some photos of the hunt.

Ahhhhh good times!

Some more pics of the 2014 Armijio Springs rondy.

Bob & I.



Bob telling stories.


Me shooting a Merkel .470 NE with heavy loads.



My wife shooting the .470 NE but with light loads.



My daughter just after shooting the .470 NE with light loads.



Me shooting the .470 NE with light loads.

A few pics from the 2015 Armijio Springs rondy.



Blue and I shooting.


Watching a shooting match.

Ken: Great photos. My daughter and I will try to be there. She asked is she could shoot the .470 NE, but she's only 6!

Don't think the .470 will be there this year,as the owner is working.

She could shoot my .460.

I explained the concept of recoil to her and how powerful the .470 is and she changed her mind. I'll bring a .22 for her.

Good luck. What kind of speed are you getting with IMR 3031? I'm hoping to put one of those same bullets, with IMR 8208 into a grizzly this fall.

57.o gave 2,825. This was an older can (lincoln log sticks) of 3031. Newer stuff (reformulated sticks) gives 2,750 at 57.5 gr.

Nosler 7 and Brian Pearce's testing (HL 289) with XBR 8028 shows great speeds - 2,900 fps in a 22" barrel for Pearce.

I was a die hard heavy-for-caliber Nosler guy, but think the 200 TTSX will dig a lot deeper.

210 ttsx in 338-06 at similar speed, broke the tip of the shoulder ball, severed the spine, broke the off side shoulder and was barely caught by the hide on the offside of a mature bull moose for me, at around 125ish yards.

Oh yeah, weight of bullet.... 210. and some fractional change... Only thing I didn't' find, tip of the bullet....

ATTN. AZZHATS (You know who you are)

Here boys is the "mythical" 35 Whelen Imp on a 1948 Commercial FN, Jaeger Trigger, Douglas premium bbl, beautiful blue and a better than average piece of wood.

Cost to my door ? Far, far less than a bead blasted, tupperware stocked Remjunk 700.

LMAO !

How about some close ups of the rifle.

Example.

Another example.

Hmm.... where off the internet did you steal those pictures.

If you want to see it "close up" why don't you swing over to OK, pickup your alter ego (bricktop) and swing by ?
Be sure he brings the money he still owes me.......

Not a bad looking Mauser aside from the blah wood and buggered screw.

Keep trying, maybe you'll get some as good as these....
















BTW, does that nice looking young person featured in so many of your pics know that you are dedicating a great deal of time harassing a person old enough to be "Grandpa" ? Proud to be your child ? "My dad bullies an old man while he hides under his desk, behind his keyboard !" "I'm so proud oh him !!!"

Prove I got those off the internet.

Simple request,just asked for more pics and you larry,blow your top. Why?

Blow my top ? You must be a Quaker ! At least I don't spend most of my posts trying to:

a) keep other members from selling items
b) handing out unsupported insults and threats
c) making veiled threats (re NM CF)

Sure dropped that frog on your lily pad Mr. bass !

One thing about trolls...... they can hand out accusations (stealing photos off net) but sure cannot handle it when it's tossed back at them.

Where's the rest of the peanut gallery ? Is your "group" PM function broken ?

Did I mention a careful study reveals that 83% of members with over 20,000 post are bullies and cowards hiding behind their keyboards ?

BTW: you are who ????? LMAO !!!!!

High Noon didn't miss much there, that thing is fugly to me.

I'd take a tupperware 700 any day.

You ain't digging the vertical grip.......

Yup,blew your top larry.

Simple request to post close up pics of the .35 Whelen Imp,what do I get BS.

Simple request to prove I stole those pics I posted were stolen from the internet,what do I get,more BS.

Here are some pics I just took of my .460 Wby.







Prove I stole those off the internet larry.

More pics of the .460 Wby.








Prove I stole these pics off of the internet also,larry.

Well Rost and Stellie, you're welcome to your tupperware 700s.

It's sad that folks today have no capacity to see what a few changes can do. When she gets and ebony tip, a remodeled grip, lowered cheekpiece and wraparound checkering, she'll be a classic AND still a 1948 FN actioned rifle with a bolt handle that always stays on.

Sorta like either of these: (no dolts, they are no FNs, top is a 03 NM action bottom a DHT 03 action)



Of course that requires having a good stockmaker who know what "classic" means and can execute it too.

As for the 460, a typical small penis man gun with almost all the ugly trademark Weatherby features. May be you could get a couple of orange diamond inlays added ?

Our Miata has more ground clearance than that lawn tractor. "Runs like a Deere" until you have to cross a ditch.

Don't have to prove you stole those pics. Don't you know that here. Making an accusation is accepted as fact ?

Prove I stole the pics of the internet larry.

All I'm getting from you is excuses.

Where are the close ups of the .35 Whelem Imp I asked for?

Sorry High Noon for hi-jacking your thread.

NO YOU'RE NOT, YOU AND YOUR FELLOW TROLLS DO IT ALL THE TIME.

Now.... quick, get the trolls together and whine to get me banned (again)

never worked, never will..... but fun to watch 20 brats wetting themselves.

It took me 20 minutes (more or less) to post those pics of the .460 Wby. How come you cannot do the same with the .35 Whelen Imp larry?

If you've never been banned, why change your handle all the time?

In the interest of full disclosure, stlooiearch sent me a civil PM, with photos of the .35W AI, to which I sent a civil reply. This is how things should operate. There is really no reason for vitriol and contempt in this thread, and as I stated before, we aren’t discussing politics here.

My point is that when someone addresses me in a civil, respectful manner, I will reply in kind – the opposite is also true. I believe most people, other than perhaps the most pious among us, will agree with this statement. Herein lies the reason for the following post:

I offer my unsolicited perspective based upon the most recent rash of postings: As we all know, it is blatantly clear who the aggressor was in all of this. There was only one individual with angry and perhaps unbalanced postings. First, instead of simply posting photos to show-off a new rifle, with a description and perhaps a brief summary of any challenges faced during assembly and a list of future work planned (as he basically did in his PM to me), stooiearch instead choose to begin his post, in all caps, by addressing others in a derogatory fashion – in particular, me – since I was the individual who first used the term ‘mythical’ in relation to said barreled action and stock. Then, he disparaged the Remington 700, regardless of the fact that many on this forum own, like, and have had great success with that particular rifle. When politely asked to post additional close-up photos of this newly assembled .35W A.I., and after being given examples of such photos, he then made a conscious decision to accuse elkhunternm of thievery. Not only that, but he despicably brought a young child into the argument as a means to further deride and ridicule – as disgraceful an action as I’ve seen in quite a while. He then went on to denigrate elkhunternm’s, very nice 7x57, Edit: 9x57, accused him of being a troll, and then accused everyone else of being whiners and trolls as well. Quite oddly, he then accused him of having a small penis, criticized his Weatherby and his lawn tractor (?!) stating that if he kept trying maybe he could “get some as good as these.” I didn’t realize this was a contest. I was under the impression that this was a forum where people could go to seek advice from those more knowledgeable than themselves, provide expertise, show off new acquisitions, etc. I can honestly say I was completely unaware this was a forum where individuals were encouraged to speculate on the size of a man’s Johnson, based upon his choice of rifle.

Now, based upon all I have outlined here, I’d ask if any sane individual would consider your actions as a skillful or clever method of ingratiating oneself to the 24hourcampfire community? I think not.

Since you (stlooiearch) have chosen not to honor my request to contribute useful posts, I would refer you to my earlier post.

High Noon,not to be picky or a butthead,but that was a 9x57.

And you have just met larry root aka stlooiearch.

Apologies. I will edit my post above. I think since 7x57 is a caliber I have lusted after (in a beautiful custom Mauser like yours) for quite some time, I just assumed your 9x57 was a 7x57, notwithstanding the paper label!


So it would seem.

Understand the lusting after a 7x57,have two myself. One is a Winchester M 70 Featherweight and the other is a CZ 550 American.

Going to have a third built off of a Mauser action,just as soon I can get enough money for a down payment.

I saw a very nice FN M70 Featherweight/Super Grade stock, on one of the auction sites for ~ $1,300.00. Maybe I'll get one of those one day since I already have a CZ 550 American in 6.5x55. I've also seen several custom 7x57s built on Mauser actions, but they're quite a bit more expensive.

Mine is a Shot Show Special,no fancy stock or anything like that. Just a nice piece of wood.

Heres a pic of it with a mule deer I killed last year.

Nice!

Thanks!

Can't believe nobody's posted stuff that's been Whelened to death yet. I shot this bull with a 250gr Barnes Original spitzer over 4064 a few years ago.

Nice bull.

HN,I will take some better pics of the Featherweight and post them here later this morning or early afternoon.

Here you go HN.

TheKid: Very nice! Did it drop in its tracks?

Ken: Thanks for the photos - nice rifle!

Thanks HN.

Yes, rainy day and a huge spray of mist lifted off the side of him at impact, pretty neat to see. Of course in the interest of full disclosure the other big bull that was standing beside him also went down like he'd been electrocuted when my sister in law put a 150 Nosler from her 270 into his chest. In fact I have only seen one caribou shot that didn't drop in it's tracks, they are really about the easiest animals in NA to kill IMO.

I agree caribou usually die easily, but a seriously large bull I shot in the Mulchatna herd many years ago was one of the toughest critters I have ever seen die. Multiple broadside shots through both lungs at 250 yards or so with a 300WM did not drop it before I walked to the animal, first wading King Salmon Creek and then climbing the hillside. There was a very big herd and he walked into the herd so getting to him was difficult and finding a safe shot even tougher.

I had multiple bulls walking right up to me and some had fighting intentions it seemed. It was very late October and the rut was still evident in many of the bulls. I suspect they had some unbred cows coming back into heat.

I finally got to shoot the bull again at very close range right in the hip socket after following him for at least 400 yards. Then I put another in the neck...

He was damn near inedible... Stank... and had a bruised talley whacker that looked like it had been run through a meat tenderizer. It made B&C all-time by official score.

That would be disappointing to say the least after putting in all that effort. Bummer.

Some critters just don't want to quit sometimes, I've seen little old 125 pound deer soak up bullets like a sand berm. Then of course there was the young cow caribou I shot on a winter hunt one year with the Whelen. 325 yards and she folded like a cheap suit at the shot. Dead as free lunch when we got to her but I never did find a bullet hole. Guess she had a bad heart.

Interesting.

I watched an episode of "Life Below Zero," where Glenn Villeneuve passed on a shot at a large bull caribou, in favor of a doe because it was during the rut and he said that the bull would taste terrible. I've had similar experiences with whitetails, the rut really does make bulls inedible.

I've also heard that caribou are easy to kill as stated above, but I have no direct experience with this.

Sitka deer: congratulations on your record book caribou.

TheKid: sounds like it was a fun hunt. I know many people disparage the venerable .270, but it's quite an effective round IMO. I shoot Federal Premium 150gr. Nosler Partitions exclusively in mine and it's never failed to perform on whitetails and huge feral hogs here in W. TX - an exceptional and accurate round, IMO.

I shoot a 150 gr NP out of one of my .270's. From a 22" it's getting 3000 fps average. Using RL-26 and Fed 210 Match primers.

This one.

Ken: 3,000 FPS for 150s is quite good.

Yup,it is why I use RL-26. The best I gotten with H-4831(I think,it's been over a year) was just about 2900 fps with a 150 gr NP.

Just need an elk tag to try it on.

Here's the link for .270 Winchester RL-26 load data. FYI,in the pictured .270 it uses one grain less powder than the max for almost the same speed.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...;type=1&powderid=40&cartridge=63

Thanks Ken, and another nice Mauser! The Federal Premium 150 gr. NP runs about 2,800 - 2,850 FPS. Not a huge difference, but I always thought 3K FPS for 150s would be great since the 130s typically exceed that velocity, if only slightly.

If you are getting maximum velocity through a shorter barrel you are simply getting more pressure than you should be. Velocity is far from the primary goal in reloading...

Good point and duly noted.

I see StBlewie got commingled with Oldman1942...

Once again he is gone for a while...

Good times for all...

Yup,gone for a while. Like diarrhea it will be back.

I'll take 100 fps if i can get it safely. There are ways to get there too sometimes. Can be a combo of throat, type of rifling, bullet coatings and powder choices.

That said I don't look for it on hunting rounds... 100 fps won't make enough difference to worry about to normal distances.

Safe is a funny word...

To state it again, if you are going faster than the books say you can, you have excess pressure. I realize the books say 3k is there... with a 24" barrel... running up against the edge constantly with no available pressure signs or verifiers is not a good plan.

My father always ran stuff as hot as he could, believing in seeing "the signs" as good enough. Sticky bolts and cracked lugs were not uncommon... and for absolutely no gain.

The max velocity is 3022,I'm getting 3000 with a 22" barrel. Deduct 25 fps per inch. 3022-50= 2972 fps is what you get. Now 3000-2972=28 the difference is 28 fps.

How is that going to cause sticky bolts and cracked lugs?

3000-2850=150 fps seems to me that a 150 fps more with a 150 gr NP is a pretty good gain.

I disagree, having had pressure tests run on some of my loads There are lots of variables out there.


I"ll just leave it at that.

If you like to hot rod you can push a 35 Whelen very close to a .338 Win Mag.
I like a 225 gr bullet at 2,700.

I understand those variables a bit and also understand exactly how few here are likely to run those tests...

For some it is not particularly unsafe, but as general practice it is not something to be encouraging a not-even-newbie reloader on...

Art you are very true there. I generally give more credit to folks thinking abilities than I should...

For folks not willing to do the research etc... and running normal everything I say you are on the money.

Regardless for a hunting round 100 fps does nothing.

In target shooting where a fraction of an inch means winning or loosing, it matters some... my personal rule of thumb was I had to be able to gain 100 FPS or close to it, or gain at least .050 in BC for it to be worth messing with generally speaking. Realizing I"m talking 300-1000 yards and nothing shorter that ever mattered.... and 300 rarely did... most of the matter things started at 500 and out..

Jeff

Lacking the ability for actual pressure testing, I just slum along according to the chronometer.

If you'll bring that .270 up to Quemado, elkhntr, I'll be sure to test it extensively for you. Over the next couple of years ...

You've got a 460 Weatherby, so I don't understand why you need another rifle anyway.

I'm sure you would!

The .460 is my varmint rifle.



Not going to make it to Quemado this year. Work got in the way.

Does anyone know what the situation will be at Armijo Springs on Sunday? I can't get out there with my daughter until Saturday afternoon and I was wondering if we stay through Sunday, will there be much going on or will everything be winding down beginning Sunday morning?

No one has replied to my inquiry on the Armijo Spgs thread.

I'm trying to determine if it's worth the drive for just half of Saturday and just one night. I could potentially stay Sunday night, but it doesn't sound like anyone will be left by then.

Regarding .270 velocity for 150s, I don't have the reloading experience to make an informed comment. All I know is what I have read and my thinking was that if Winchester originally designed 130s with a velocity of 3,140 and later reduced the velocity to 3,060 fps, a target velocity of 3,000 fps for 150s would probably be ok (but I could definitely be mistaken). I can certainly see how 3,000 fps for 150s would increase pressures, though.

Sunday is when it all winds down. Most will be packing up leaving for home,others will stay till Monday and then leave. Sunday morning it's usually buy,sell,and trade day.

You can shoot some of the rifles,handguns and shotguns if you ask the owner.

Thanks Ken.

You're welcome HN.

Just made it back from Armijo Springs. A good time was had by all.

I suspected you'd say it was worth the quick turn around!

I sure wished I had extra time off to be able to make that one!

Yes, it was fun, but I'm not sure it was worth it - mainly due to the two speeding tickets I received. The first was just S. of Silver City. I was doing a whopping 7 MPH over the speed limit - you should have seen this A.H. do his power-slide turn, with sirens and lights blaring as he came after me - you would have thought I just bombed the U.N. - absolutely ridiculous - and although I was respectful to the officer, he still felt it necessary to call in back-up. I had no less than 5 cruisers surrounding me - this with my 6 year old daughter in the back seat. I'm sure being white, driving a Mercedes and having TX plates was all the justification he needed.

The second was when I was returning to EP - the Fuzz nabbed me for 9 MPH over the limit.

Let's just say I don't have a very high opinion of the NM State Police, but they gotta' generate that revenue don't they?

It amazes me that I can drive all the way to Alaska without getting a single ticket, but as soon as I cross the border into NM - watch out! SO a nice little trip with my daughter turned out to be very expensive and a huge hassle.

Say what you will, but traveling 7-9 MPH over the limit does not justify these two tickets.

Slow learner????

Try traveling a different route next time. Sounds like you're traveling along a drug corridor. Yep, a white boy traveling alone or what looks alone in a german or other high end built european car will get stopped. And you can thank the lawyers for the ticket. I can and will explain via PM if you want to know more. But, you fit the bill for a drug trafficker to a passing interdiction officer.

As far as the rifle choice; go with SS/synthetic stock version and load a stout 225 grain something or other in it. Wood is nice for heirlooms but you are looking for an effective TOOL. Any gunsmith can install a set of quality irons for $100 or so.

When we go to Armijio Springs,we head up to Soccoro and head to Quemado that way. It's a 4 hour drive for us.

Sorry to hear the hassle. But I'd still bet it was worth it with the fine folks and all.

Ulvejager: Perhaps, but I’ve always traveled up to 10 MPH over the speed limit on road trips and I’ve never had a problem.

Ken: I was initially going to take that route, but I thought the I-10/180/12/32 route would be more scenic, which it was, but it sure turned out to be expensive! Next year I’ll take your route.

Jeff: Yep, it was great to meet everyone

Aught6: PM sent

We got pulled over not even speeding that I can recall, if so not much, many years ago. Heck I was even CHL and carrying IIRC.

It was Redondo? S Texas. We'd never been there before. We went in one weekend to scout a place for a hog hunt the next weekend.

Stopped at the local joint for a sandwich and a beer or such. Not many would even look at us there.

Less than 5 miles out were pulled over. The difference was we didn't get a ticket. He even admitted we were out of place, could have been a mule, just checked that out. Wanted to look in the back of the camper on the truck, I laughed and said we had just fed out, if he wanted to dig through the corn bags to watch out there was a bow case in there somewhere too and the 45 I had under my jacket. He laughed, went and looked and waved as he walked back to the car.

That kind of stop I can deal with, and actually appreciate them paying attention that we were out of place.

Writing a ticket for 5-10 over, nah, thats kinda chickenshit. I get it and all, but it is what it is.

It is chickenshit and I resent being treated like a second class citizen in my own country by some cop with an attitude, who thinks it's ok to lie to citizens and abuse their power. I also resent his 'probing' questions, especially since I had my 6 year old daughter with me, which are obviously designed to escalate the traffic stop into an arrest and he had no probably cause: "where you coming from? where you headed? do you have any weapons? what's in your trunk? who is the young lady?" all of which received the same courteous reply from me through the 4" opening in my driver's side window: "that's my business."

I know there's some good law enforcement officers out there, but they are few and far between now-a-days.

From here to Soccoro,it's not very scenic. From Soccoro to Armijio Springs it is scenic,not as good as the route you took but good. We almost always see antelope between Soccoro and Quemado and if we are late enough in the day,elk between Quemado and Armijio Springs.

Stayed in Socorro on my oryx hunt, what a Schitt hole...

Didja get a whelen yet??

Here are some pics of antelope in the Very Large Array.











And what is found in the VLA.




http://www.vla.nrao.edu

If the answers were thats my business, then it was your right to answer that way, but also why it escalated IMHO.

I've no issue telling em where I've been and where I"m going. Others do.

The daughter IE children are used to throw off cops from them thinking they'd not haul drugs with a kid in the car all the time, in fact I'd bet by today, its normal to think the child might well be an indicator.

I guess we are lucky, we really don't have much in the way of bad officers locally. Have one wrote a ticket to one of our fireman responding to a CPR in progress page, for speeding. He was goign a bit fast, but honestly on those types of serious calls I do to. Its life.

We had one trigger happy game warden, but he really wasn't that bad, just overly gung ho to find things. And we found when we baited him, it made it worse for us.

Finally got over those issues of having to answer none of your business and life has been smooth.

Don't take any of my comments wrong though, I'm just rambling like I generally do... its after 5, I'm home and de stressing from work at the moment.

Jeff

PS at this point in your gun quest... find a used but good shape Whelen the year Rem made them on an annual run and go with it. As you can, put a good stock on it, in the meantime seal the wood one and bed it. Then add the stock. then ad a top line barrel.

Food for thought.

CRF in my books is over rated, but its my choice....

Ken: Once we were a fair piece past Silver City on 180, it began to get scenic. While I was at Armijo Spgs. John took me and my daughter Julia for a ride in his Honda ATV and we spotted several nice Mule deer bucks. I would have been proud to shoot one of them. I didn’t have any glass, but I bet he had a 22+” spread and was probably a 10-12 pointer. Didn’t see any Elk. I have seen a bunch pronghorn on the way to Carlsbad, but that’s the other direction.

Judman: There’s a lot of towns in NM like that – in TX as well. EP is only slightly better IMO. Coming back to the oppressive heat in El Paso after the nice cool weather in Armijo Spgs., was depressing. I’ve come to loathe it and I cannot wait to finish my degree and GTF out of here.

I haven’t purchased a .35W yet, but I have my eye on a good one – built on a 1909 Argentine.

Jeff: The officer called for backup before he even approached my vehicle. 5 cruisers surrounded me before I said a word to him.

Like I said, I know there are good cops out there, but I don’t trust them. Regarding traffic stops, their sole purpose is to get the citizen talking so as to generate probable cause so that an arrest can be made thereby generating revenue for the county and justification for their existence. Traveling 10 MPH over the speed limit is not justification for the treatment afforded to the average citizen. The average officer’s mindset is that everyone is guilty and no one can tell me differently – I can see it in their eyes, I can hear it in the tone of their voice, I can tell by their body language – they are ready to pull their pistol and shoot to kill. Now I will say that the officer involved with the second citation I received was a good guy. He asked one probing question, which I answered with my customary “that’s my business” response, which he apparently appreciated and understood. From that point forward, he was very respectful, as was I, but he did not lie and threaten as the other officer did.

Part of the problem is that not enough Americans are even aware of their rights. I simply will not play their game and I will exercise my rights as an American citizen. You said that you have no problem with answering their probing questions, and while I respect your opinion, I will not waive my rights to help them justify an arrest.

I refuse to self identify at these asinine Border Patrol Checkpoints 70 or 80 miles inland. When they ask if I’m an American citizen they get my customary reply, and I’ve not had any issues with this up to this point in time and I’ve traveled through a great many of these checkpoints since I’ve been in EP.

Americans in general are far too willing to trade their rights for the progressive promise of “security.” What many don’t understand is that these rights were paid for in blood, by great Americans who sacrificed everything so we could enjoy liberty. They don't understand that trading freedom and liberty for security results in neither, which is what we’re beginning to see today in this country.

I have yet to see any deer in that area,elk,antelope and a few coyotes is all I've seen there.

Ken,

One of your prairie goats wanted to run into the side of my truck Sunday morning at the VLA!

Told him you were on a beer run!

I did see a few 13 lined ground squirrels and what I thought were prairie dogs, but I don't think that counts.

Maybe!

I realize there's a great many who believe CRF is overrated, but I'm really not interested the arguments in favor of one over the other. CRF is my choice as well, which is why I'm not interested in a Rem 700. I'd rather wait until I find what I'm looking for, as I'm not in a hurry.

Thats cool on the CRF. I was just suggesting a cheaper? way to get 35 whelen to start wiht, then take your time on building what you want.

I've never had a failure in a non CRF, and I've shot them in rapid fire a LOT in matches over many years... if it was going to happen, I've shot a bolt 700 enough to have had it happen.

BUt its your choice.

RE the cops, it is what it is. But around here anyway, i'm not going to get arrested for giving up my rights and telling em I was on the way to a fire call or to Danny's for bbq or to the deer lease... I do realize different areas are different ways though.

RE the 5 other cars, as much as cops have been getting shot lately and your vehicle fitting the description perfectly, I'd have done the same, PLUS you have no clue that your vehicle didn't fit a violent crime just committed.

I still give the guys in blue a bit of faith and credit. I hate to see it such that by the abuse of a very few LEO folks, that the whole batch gets painted wiht a brush.

nope, I'm not LEO and hopefully never am.