Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Obsession With Bible Prophecy: The Devil Loves It

I am not defending the Pharisees. I am pointing out the error of antlers and the error of you defending him. There is no way for us to see what the Pharisees were doing so we can not judge what they were thinking by those actions. We have only God's Word to go by. We are to "handle accurately the Word of God."

If you were hell bent on posting something stupid you should have responded to Gus, not efw and Antlers.

[quote=efw]I suppose there is a significant difference between a love for God which translates to a love for His word vs a love for His word because it validates ones need to be right. The Pharisees certainly seemed to be live they were showing reverence for God's word but failed to keep its spirit.

Of course Christ showed His love for God's word by citing it constantly. .......................



Yes, I see and understand your post and I don't have an issue with it but there is an aspect of the heart that I consider when looking at the Pharisees. Their hearts were wrong, filled with impurity and as is says like "whitewashed tombs" filled with death and bones.

Were they showing "reverence?" I don't know, but their big problem was in the heart. I seem to see that "out of the heart" comes the man, the character and the witness. A heart that is unclean will not be very good at all in supplying service to the kingdom. A deed might look good on the outside but if not done for the Lord, it is of no mind. Good, not harmful but not impactful for the kingdom; a relatively meaningless earthly deed at best. I have done them by the boatloads.

If one's heart is filled with dead bones, I would suspect that reverence, behavior and good deeds associated with that heart are, in the end, to be found to be prideful and totally self-serving.

I suspect most Pharisees of that day may be like those of today; lovers of themselves, filled with pride etc; no matter how good they look on the outside, it is the heart that counts.

Take the proverbial cool drink of water. If offered by a Pharisee to Jesus only so the Pharisee can be seen doing the good deed then it is likely of no eternal consequence. If offered in love to quench Christ's thirst, then the deed likely has eternal significance.

We seem to have many people today who do good things and support noble causes. Are they doing these things to only make themselves feel good? To be seen by others and then hence done for one's own pride and ego?

Same idea with the widow's mite.

I am sure you get the idea, just another aspect of the heart of the Pharisee.

And Jesus Himself described pretty clearly in Matthew 23 ("God's Word") what the Pharisees were doing (how they behaved), and it's not a stretch to tell how they thought either, based upon their actions (behavior).

It's pretty clear where I was coming from when I posted to you what I did about the Pharisees. It's no different than if, for example, someone acts like they're better than everyone else, for an observer of that behavior to make the comment that "they think they're better than everyone else". Most everybody who had seen that persons behavior, or even read about it, would understand the comment that the observer made. But only a Pharisee would split hairs over it. It's disingenuous to the Nth degree.

What's in our hearts...good or bad...is eventually translated into words and deeds.

I agree full heartedly!

There is even a scripture that says this. At least I think so.

Matthew 12:33-37 Jesus speaking

"'Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil. But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.'"

How is this not another way of saying what they thought????

It may not be depending upon how one views or understands who we are and how we are made and how we function.

There is the body and there is the soul or our mind. There is also the presence or absence of the Spirit deep within us. I see man as the three part being. The soul or mind, being different from our spirit.

More simply put, the spirit is the driving force of God within us and it manifests itself via our soul; it's thoughts,words, deeds and acts.

How many times have each us had some sort of sudden "understanding" or "revelation" about God? Seems to me that is the Spirit communicating to our spirit and then manifesting in our mind.

To each his own here I think.


ie, the Pharisees were dead in their spirit and did not have the driving force of God to urge their mind. They could still think and reason but were motivated in their flesh.

I am of the opinion that Man is a spiritual entity with a religious instinct. The humanistic Atheist working on his Doctorate is fulfilling his religious instinct just as surely as the Eskimo carving a totem pole.

Religiosity is just one way - and not the preferred way - our spirituality finds expression in the physical world.

It appears that the Pharisees practiced their religion to the detriment of their spirituality.

Their modern day counterparts can be found in great number sitting in a pew, singing in a choir, or preaching from a pulpit on any Sunday morning in any American town.

So where do you draw the line on what is correct, and what is in error?

You are correct in this. However, the Pharisees are also found in great numbers sitting in boats or watching the footballs games on Sunday morning. Great numbers of them.

All secure in their own hearts that they are ok with God and that they can worship God “in their own way.”

They don’t need the church, already have enough “bible knowledge” and they happily forsake the assembling of themselves together as they do not want to be offended by “hypocrites.”

They judge themselves and find that they are “ok with God.” They especially feel good about themselves when they judge others to be “Pharisees.”

Seriously....... does YOUR conscience not work? That's a smartass answer, but I used it for emphasis.

Most of us will make it into Heaven by backing away from Hell, but doing the right thing to avoid guilty feelings can, over time, translate into doing the right thing out of habit.

Of course, that can't happen without God's help and I'm ever mindful of that.

"The Practice of the Presence of God" is an old, but useful, little book that aided me to some small degree in developing those "thought habits".

It is. Jesus knew their thoughts, not men.

Thank you. I still have to wait on Ringman's verdict, of course.

I have stuff to do [comfort the afflicted, heal the lame, restore sight to the blind and such] so I'll bow out for awhile.

Thanks to all for the conversation.

First verse in Genesis to the last in Revelation. That keeps it simple for me. If I come across something I have a problem with I move on, believing it's either not for me, or not for me now.

There's a proverb that says, "it's to the Glory of God to conceal a matter, and to the glory of kings to search the matter out". The Bible is pretty straightforward when it comes to the salvation message. So that which is the most important is rather moot in regards to hidden meaning. Those things that might show us more about this amazing God can sometimes be a problem. Particularly if we are reading through our filters. We do see through the glass darkly. But the number of times I have went past a verse many times and another time it almost jumps off the page at me in a unique revelation, shows me this is a living book and there is a Holy Spirit who can lead and guide us to all the Truth to be found that we need for our purposes. That is few for some and many for others. Not only does God take us where he finds us but also and often will take us where we want to go with Him. Many of the pastors and/or those involved with mission work among us may be able to attest to the wild ride that can be.

If you say so...



I agree with that like you did before you didn't but whatever.

Your conversation reminds me of a guy at work. He kept asking me questions trying to catch me in something. Finally I asked him, "Are you trying to catch me in something like the Pharisees did with Jesus in the lasts two verses of Luke 11?"
Luke 11:53-54
"When He left there, the scribes and the Pharisees began to be very hostile and to question Him closely on many subjects, plotting against Him to catch Him in something He might say."

If you don't mind, would you post were I changed my mind, please? The specific phrase I quoted I agree with.

Here's the problem with those who either don't know what God's Word says or don't believe it. God's Word says, well I'll let you read it.

1 Corinthians 2:11
"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God."

I don't consider you important enough to try and catch you in something. You're not Jesus. Nor am I a Pharisee.

As a matter of fact I have been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but your accusation suggests my initial inclination and what many here already knew is correct.

You're obtuse.

Yes,to put it bluntly!