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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,318 Likes: 30
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,318 Likes: 30 |
One would always think it almost impossible, with 2 airplanes that one or the other was paying attention to airspace.
But humans are not perfect and things do happen.
Its still more dangerous to drive to the airport rather than fly... IMHO. That's the conventional wisdom comparing commercial flying vs. POV. Much higher in small fixed-wing aircraft than commercial. Don't know how it compares with POV travel though, but obviously closer if not exceeding it.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
As many deaths are on the road every day, i doubt that POV flight is more dangerous than day to day driving. But of course there are not that many POV flights in the air as there are cars on the ground.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,318 Likes: 30
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,318 Likes: 30 |
Cant relate one to another without the math and the math is a little bit of voodoo. The numbers are difficult to compare. Apples:oranges:bananas thing.
Google it. Lots of interesting articles.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Thats very true.
Still a shame about the crash.
I"ve flown with some good pilots in AK And we've sat tight a LOT, when we wanted to be flying...but thats the sign of a live pilot and live passengers. Still things happen.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I ain't dead yet, and it probably won't happen in a small plane, but I know plenty of people who have crashed and have flown with several who have met their demise via small plane. Yeah, it ain't risk free. Have flown many miles with Hageland and Ravn as well as others, and will again. The scariest guys I've flown with are the new ones to the state, and especially a few who have been rather cavalier.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,318 Likes: 30
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,318 Likes: 30 |
of course it's a shame. http://www.livescience.com/43448-air-turbulence-dangerous-injuries.htmlis a pretty good article trying to make a comparison.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,083 Likes: 32
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,083 Likes: 32 |
N of 1; been here over a decade. Can't say I know anyone personally who has died in a car crash here during that time but I know 7 who have rode out in plane crashes (4 of the 7 were pilot and passenger.) As 'bender suggested the stats is a wee bit complicated ... But commercial airline odds it ain't. RIP to the souls involved in this one..
Last edited by AKwolverine; 09/01/16. Reason: Damn phone
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
The big difference between planes and cars is most car crashes you survive, most plane crashes you don't.
Can't think of anyone I know here who has been killed in a plane crash, sadly have known a few to die in plane crashes.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88 |
I know some car related deaths but certainly more plane related. Also those planes held more than most cars do.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Now we know names... Alaska State Troopers say the Caravan was flown by Wasilla pilot Harry Wrase, 48, and carried passengers Steven Paul Andrew, 32, of Russian Mission and Aaron Jay Minock, 21, of Russian Mission. The Super Cub was flown by Montana resident Zach Justin Babat, 44, and carried Haines passenger Jeff Thomas Burruss, 40. ADN detail article
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Good article for sure. Thats why we no longer fly without the belt on.. and certainly not in small planes. Still in a big one you have to get up to go to the can now and then. I think this kind of got off course a bit, I was referring to overall, that driving is more deadly than flying. In AK there are not that many roads so if you ran the numbers.. but even there, I suspect you have to have more road fatalities than flight fatalities. But if you take me literally when I say driving to the airport (only) is more deadly, i'm sure its not at least in AK. Regardless it sucks as we've noted. Hopefully the report will give some info that can at least prevent another issue like this for someone. Certainly when a plane crashes the odds of walking away alive are much less than a vehicle crash.( although here locally I've been in on maybe 4 plane crash landings( not mountain smacks or air to air) and not a single fatal, but can't recall the number of dead people I've pulled out of vehicles anymore...) In the end we all take chances, and I would never stop flying due to fear. I'm going to try to enjoy it as much and as often as I can, life, and if it bites me, well, it was going to sooner or later.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,030 |
Oh I get that, just the odds still have to be high, really high. Even with both planes looking, you'd think out of 5 people...
But then I'm a turkey in a small plane, helping look for traffic... You'd think that many eyes would help, but most folks don't do the turkey thing as a passenger. I've spent I don't know how many hours(easily over 1,000) as a passenger in small fixed and rotary wings at work. Believe me, far too many people are just brain dead as passengers. Jaw jacking, sleeping, or playing on their phones. Everything except paying attention to WTF is going on around them. Baffles me. Like you, I prefer to up my odds, and have my head on a swivel, especially when in obvious choke points/high traffic areas. I also want a head set, and be in direct comm with the pilot. Couldn't tell you how many times I've spotted traffic or some such, that the pilot had yet to see. I'm not the least bit shy to let a pilot know about something I don't like. My life is more important to me, than his/her feelings/ego. Hunting season is a high risk time in the air. Lots of pilots that only/mostly fly in the fall, planes lacking in the latest comm/nav gear, flying low/not announcing themselves on the radio at small airfields, game watching instead of flying. You name it, lots of stupid [bleep] goes on this time of year. To be clear, I'm not saying that's the case here at all. Jeff
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Posts: 464
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 464 |
Is there not, in this day and age, some cheap transponder that could be required in all planes that could beep when another plan is within 2 miles? I have walkie talkies that work over three miles and cost $20.
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
There is. It only communicates with other planes that also have it. I'm betting one of these planes had it; the other didn't. This article mentions it: ADN detail article
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,530 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,530 Likes: 5 |
Every time I fly puddle jumpers I'm constantly watching for traffic and birds. I tell my wife before flying that "if this is how the good Lord chooses to take me home he is truly a loving and merciful God". I can think of a lot worse ways to go than dying doing what I love in the most beautiful place in the world. I don't even care if they find my body. I'm ok with being nourishment for a predator since I'd eat them if needed. The circle of life.
Like death as in life, I'll be at peace wherever I lie.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
--------------------------------------------------------- ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,116 Likes: 2 |
And while ADS-B takes a chunk of cash for an owner to install, this is exactly what it was designed to prevent.
Sad all around. Probably not a lot of PA18s with ADS-B.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,530 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,530 Likes: 5 |
And while ADS-B takes a chunk of cash for an owner to install, this is exactly what it was designed to prevent.
Sad all around. Probably not a lot of PA18s with ADS-B. Not yet anyway.... Any private pilots know approximate cost on an ADS-B?
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
--------------------------------------------------------- ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Money is money and I"d like to know the appx cost too, but you'd think if it could be life/death, that it would sure have to be pretty expensive to not think about having it.
Capstan? Was new thing when I shot my first caribou years ago in AK. But I dont' think it showed other planes either. Think it was just fancy GPS showing your location.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,828
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,828 |
ADS- B depending on whom you talk to and what you already have in your airplane, anywhere from 5 to 10K more or less! Stuff happens, pilots still are responsible for seeing and avoiding collisions!
"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."
Anton Chekhov
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
5k I'd think everyone should have it no questions asked. 10K, its expensive but whats it worth to have another set of eyes....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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