Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Hard chambering AFTER full length resizing!

Here's one that really has me stumped. I have been handloading for almost forty years and never come across this before.
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<br>Loading a 300 Win mag.
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<br>Fired cases go back into the chamber fine, but are hard chambering after being FL resized.
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<br>I have measured the over all length of the case before and after and the cases are .005" longer after sizing. Presumably the shoulder is moving ahead somewhat, as well.
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<br>Any ideas on how to solve this?
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<br>Ted

Ted,
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<br>It's hard to explain, but the simple answer is to screw down your sizing die a little more. What is happening is your aren't pushing the shoulder back far enough. With partial FL sizing, the shoulder actually moves forward a little. As you get more and more sizing accomplished, the shoulder will start to be pushed back. If you already have the die hitting the shell holder, then get another shellholder and grind down the top of it a little, then readjust your die.
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<br>Blaine

? I have noticed that cases are longer after sizing and I always measure and trim cases after they have been through the sizing die. But I don't know what would cause a case to chamber in the rifle before sizing and then fit tight after sizing. Belted cases do head space off of the belt don't they? Have you checked your case neck thickness? Could they be getting thick enough that your expander ball is sizing them back out and now they fit tight in the chamber? That's just a wild assed guess.

Try this experiment- check the length of your cases before sizing and then recheck after full lenght sizing. I find that my expander button pulls hard enough through the neck of my cases at times to stretch them as much as .007", which can be causing your problem. I always trim after full lenght resizing.
<br>Another problem that may be the cause- if you have your resizing die misadjusted by just a bit, you can be pushing the shoulder of the case back because your crimping shoulder is engaging the case mouth. I've had this happen a time or two on my 25-06 and it can cause some interesting things to happen, including high pressure loads from a heavy crimp.
<br> The only other thing I can think of is that you have work hardened your brass from using it several times and it isn't springing back like it should after sizing. This would cause your brass to flow toward the base when sizing and create a bulge near the base which won't resize properly. Annealing might help in this case, but if this is the case, better to just toss the brass and start over with new. Hope some of this helps- Let us know what it turns out to be, inquiring minds want to know- Okay, we're just plain nosy! - Sheister

One other possibility is that you are swelling the shoulder/case body junction just a bit when you size. If you have a tight chamber it wouldn't take much. Could be caused by a die body a tad too short or slop in your press. It is unlikely but I have seen it.
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<br>BCR

What Shiester describes with the mal-adjusted die has happened to me with 308 and 7 Rem Mag.With the belted case,it wasn't apparrent to the eye.With the 308,I could see the problem.

This hard chambering is occuring before I seat trhe bullet. IOW, take a freshly FL sized case, and it is hard to chamber.
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<br>I think I am going to try grinding down the shell holder a bit, because the die is already bumping the shell holder.
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<br>Thanks guys,
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<br>Ted

I would try turning the die in a little more before I grinded the shellholder. Some presses have flex and there will be a small gap between the die and shellholder when sizing the brass, even though there was not any gap when you adjusted it.

Yukoner: If you grind back the shell holder be sure you don't end up setting the belt back as you'll lose your headspace control.
<br>With a micrometer measure your cases immediately in front of the belt for both unsized and sized. Any difference? Measure the case of both types as close to the shoulder as you can and compare.
<br>Try backing your sizing die out a bit in case you are swelling the shoulder in the die. Check the diameter of your expander button. You could even size one with the punch and expander button removed and try it. That would tell you if your hang up is in the neck area. Be sure you are adequately lubing the interior of the case neck. If your brass is a bit off ideal hardness it may contribute to neck stretching and may pull the lower part of the shoulder ahead a bit. Also, track down another set of dies and try them. Perhaps yours are a bit generous in their dimensions. luck

Ted,
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<br>I'm not sure you can set the belt back. However, belted cases should be sized to headspace on the shoulder so it's a moot issue.
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<br>Before you grind you shellholder--make sure you get a new shellholder to grind--I recommend the following.
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<br>Back your sizer die off a few turns. Resize a fired case and the chamber it. Then screw the die in 1/4 turn. resize, and chamber it again. Do this repeatedly. What you should see is initially, the rounds may chamber just fine because you haven't even started to size it yet. As you continue, the case will start to be sized and the bolt won't close. If you keep going, eventually the bolt should close again. That is the ideal place to have your sizer set. If you can't get the bolt to close with the die touching the shellholder, then you will need to grind a new shellholder.
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<br>Ideally, you measure all this stuff and avoid the trial and error. But you do have to have the measuring tools. I use the Stoney Point set-up and can get my shoulders bumped back .001 to .002 quickly. Without the tools, it does take a while.
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<br>Blaine

I am away in St. Louis at the moment.
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<br>Will try this when I get6 back and let you know>
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<br>Ted

Ted,
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<br>Yes do let us know as you progress through this. Might save me some time someday......
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<br>Blaine

I ran into this with a buddies custom .257 Weatherby. Once fired, the brass could not be resized and chambered. After playing with the dies, Trimming the brass, scratching my bald head a lot, we found that the chamber was out of alignment, by quite a lot. If the case was rotated until in alignment, it would chamber.
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<br>The barrel was not able to be saved.

Are you sure that your problem isn't an out-of-round chamber? I have a 7mm Rem Mag barrel in a bucket next to my lathe with this problem. When I first tried reloading for the rifle after I bought it I thought I had a problem of tolerance stacking together wrong, and couldn't set the shoulder back enough when I resized. After setting my dies down to take the cam-over out of the press ram and still not solving my problem, my next step was checking the deapth of my shell holder from the bottom where the case head stops to the top surface that the die bottoms out against when resizing. If I remember correctly shellholders have a noninal length of something like .125 inch.
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<br>I took my calipers and went to my gun store (this was back in the days when RCBS shellholders came in little green flip-top plastic boxes) and measured all of them in the store. I bought the shallowest one of the eight or ten they had. This still didn't help matters. Next I tried heavier caselube. Still not enough shortening of headspace so i thoought.
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<br>To diagnose an out-of-round chamber what you need to do is to take a new unfired round and make a mark on its case head. Orient this to say 12 o'clock. Fire the gun and open the bolt, but only withdraw it a half inch or so from the chamber. Close the bolt. Notice how easy the bolt locks again. Now open the bolt and take the case out of the action all of the way and re-enter it into the chamber only this time orient the index mark one quarter turn. Now lock the bolt. If it locks home harder you have an out-of-round chamber. Your problem is not one of dies, shellholder, or a combination of the same. You have a bad chamber.
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<br>If that is not your problem get a shellholder and shorten its functional length. Either lathe it (face off), file it, or grind it. Then kep this specil shellhoder for use with this die, gun, and chamber combination.
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<br>Since dies are made so fast, and quality checked so easily: I'd bet on a bad chamber before a bad die.

Ted,
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<br>these guys do have a point. The quality of factory rifles of late hasn't been great. There have been a few out of round chambers showing up. Definetly something else to check.
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<br>Blaine

Yokoner: You have been reloading for a long time, while I have reloaded maybe 8 years, but here it goes anyway. At least in my case I have found that most of my reloading problems was not with the equipment I was using, but with how I was using the equipment. For that reason alone I don't modify the equipment until all possibilities are explored in detail.
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<br>I wonder if a brand new .300WM case would chamber in your rifle? If it does, then use the same case and lubricate the inside wall of the neck, and also the case's body from above the belt to just below the shoulder, and finally run it through the full-size die.
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<br>If that does not work, try the following one more time (I got the information from a gun magazine long ago, so it's not my idea, but it works):
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<br>a. Lube a fired case, and then dip the mouth in powered graphite. Back the die off and run the case into it. Drop the press� ram, and look at the case neck; you should be able to see a line where the neck has entered the sizing portion of the die. Adjust the die down in small increments, and keep on watching the line on the neck of the case each time it is run into the die. When the line just reaches the point where the neck and shoulder meet, adjust the die down one sixteenth of a turn.
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<br> b. To lock the die in place, take a small mechanic�s socket and place it between the shell holder and the bottom of the die, and then press the ram and socket against the bottom of the die. Keep the pressure applied, and lock the die in place with the lock ring. This procedure squares the die with the shell holder.
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<br> c. To align the expander/decaper assembly, back off the lock ring and run a case up in the die and until it punches out the primer. Now raise the handle until the expander pulls into the neck of the case, and hold it there. With the expander in the neck of the case, tighten the lock ring. This procedure aligns the expander with the neck under tension, minimizing the possibility of pulling the neck out of line on the down stroke of the ram.
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<br>After all this is accomplished, run through the sizing die a lubricated case the way I explained above (one that you already know chambers).
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<br>I only had problems the way you are having when I didn't lubricate the inside portion of the case's neck, followed by the lack of trimming after sizing. It seems that I was stretching the cases during the resizing process. Now I clean and lubricate the cases before resizing, then trim as needed. The die adjusting method above works well for both neck and full-sizing dies.
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<br>Almost forgot: Some CRF rifles are reluctant to load the chamber unless the round is feed from the magazine. My rifle will load them both ways, but the "push-feed" mode is not as easy as the CRF mode. The bolts other CRF rifles won't allow the extractor to snap over a case that is already in the chamber.

By any remote chance, Yukon, are you shooting a Browning?
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<br>rooster

Hi Ray,
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<br>"most of my reloading problems was not with the equipment I was using, but with how I was using the equipment. "
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<br>I concur. My experience is the same as yours. In those almost 4 decades I have broken a few depriming pins, stuck a few cases and bulged a few shoulders. All good learning experiences. Stuff like this rarely happens with me any more because I have learned what NOT to do.
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<br>"I wonder if a brand new .300WM case would chamber in your rifle?"
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<br>Yup! The problem is not with fired cases either. They will go in just fine, regardless of orientation so it is not an alignment problem or out-of-round chamber as was very properly suggested by TMan aand swarf. And this is before seating the bullet, so the shoulder is not being bulged by a misdajusted seating die.
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<br>All of your suggestions are excellent. I have used them all for a number of years, excepth the socket trick to line up the die. Sounds like it would work if the socket is perfectly square.
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<br>I do appreciate you taking the time to respond in such a comprehensive manner. You've obviously done a lot of reloading in eight years.
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<br>Thanks,
<br>Ted
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Hi Ted
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<br>I think Sheister/Stocker pegged it when they mentioned the bulge near the base.
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<br>You can check to see if this is the problem, by marking a half inch in front of belt, with a magic marker. If it's enlarged here, the ink will be scraped off, when chambered.
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<br>To solve this problem you can ;
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<br>A. spend 95 US on the new collet die that recently come out.
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<br>B. a 416 Rem die sans decap rod, will work if a tad smaller at base.
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<br>C. I cut the top portion off a tight fitting .458 die that works.(ten bucks at a gun show)
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<br>D. make up a short, open ended die with a tight chamber reamer.
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<br>E. try a different die. Not all have the same dimensions at the base.
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<br>I ran into this before, and the open ended die solved the problem, providing you chop one with a tighter base. Should work with all the magnums based on the H&H case.
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<br>Good Luck

"By any remote chance, Yukon, are you shooting a Browning?"
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<br>Nope, it's a Remington 700 and we have solved the problem.
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<br>Apparently I have a minimum chamber in the rifle and a maximum dimension die set. A hunting buddy, the guy with the two 358 Norma mags, came over and loaned me his 300 Win mag die set and that has sorted out the problem. Any and every case that is full resized in it, even those that had been fired in other rifles, go in like butter and the bolt closes with no resistance whatsoever.
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<br>My sizing die is obviously a wee bit to long for this chamber and is not touching the shoulder of the fired case. Sizing down the case body was apparently moving the shoulder ahead a bit. This would explain the .005 increase in the length of the sized case. However, the shoulder in the die never contacted the case shoulder to move it back. Hence, the hard chambering.
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<br>My dies work fine in his rifle, so we have traded and are off to the races.
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<br>Blaine, Cheah, Ray, Stocker, BCR, Gene, PDS and all the rest of you guys who responded on this thread, "Thanks for your help!"
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<br>Ted