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I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Sorry I'm coming late to the party.
Yes! This is the same exact problem I had with 165 grain Hornady SP's. I made the mistake of trying to mix two boxes, one old and one new. Yikes!
The ogive is definitely different. I would go as far as to say radically so. My last box of the old bullets were probably purchased around 2008 or so. The box the new ones came from Grafs earlier this year. So far I have not seen a change in performance.
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Shaman: just curious. What is your avatar?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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sbhooper,
You've recovered Nosler Partitions that lost 2/3 of their weight?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Something similar happened to the 180 interlocks several years ago as well. They use to have a ring above the cannelure, its gone now. I also hate having to re-tweak loads. Maybe the Nosler 2nds is the way to go...
Stuck in airports, Terrorized Sent to meetings, Hypnotized Over-exposed, Commercialized Handle me with Care... -Traveling Wilbury's
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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My solution is and has been to buy all I expect I will need for a given diameter when I am pleased with the performance of a particular bullet. I am all for "technology" and new stuff but these days, IMO, the bullet suppliers are cutting RCH's for hunting rounds.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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OP
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My solution is and has been to buy all I expect I will need for a given diameter when I am pleased with the performance of a particular bullet. I am all for "technology" and new stuff but these days, IMO, the bullet suppliers are cutting RCH's for hunting rounds. Exactly what I did try to do, but the change in ogive occurred somewhere between the first box (obtained here in classifieds) and the multiple boxes recently ordered. FWIW Sierra Pro hunters from 15 years ago and last year are the same- too bad they don't make a 165 grain Pro hunter.
If you can't be a good example, may you at least serve as a dreadful warning
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sbhooper,
You've recovered Nosler Partitions that lost 2/3 of their weight? That question is a bear trap.
Scott
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sbhooper,
You've recovered Nosler Partitions that lost 2/3 of their weight? No,I have never recovered one, but you know as well as anybody, that Partitions are made to shed the front half of the bullet. They also cost much more than the Hornady and that is what I was referring to. A bullet that looks that good after hitting all of that bone, is nothing to scoff at. Hornady bullets are inexpensive and still perform just fine, even at 300 velocities. You are splitting hairs by trying to figure out if it lost 2/3, 1/2, 5/8, or whatever amount of its weight.
Last edited by sbhooper; 10/26/16.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Campfire Kahuna
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sbhooper,
First, I'm a big fan of Hornady Interlocks and have used them to take several species of big game in weights from 100-250 grains and calibers from .25 to .35. The ones I've recovered have averaged about 50% weight retention, but two separated core and jacket. Once it didn't matter because the animal died anyway, but it did matter on the other animal, which had to be shot again because the first didn't make it into the chest after hitting the shoulder joint.
Second, Nosler Partitions are NOT made to shed the "front half" of the bullet. They're designed to lose the front core, which isn't anywhere near half the weight. The models at the smaller end of the line-up, in caliber and weight, typically lose about 30-35% of their weight, and the heaviest models lose around 10-20%.
This makes a considerable difference in penetration over the Hornady Interlock. I once shot a mule deer buck facing me in lodgepole timber with a 140-grain 7mm Partition. The bullet didn't exit but I couldn't find it inside the buck's innards. Found it a year later when biting into a round steak, retaining 60% of its weight. Also once shot a 200-grain Nosler Partition through the middle of the big joint of a 6-point elk's shoulder as the bull quartered toward me, and the bullet exited the rear of the ribcage on the other side, several feet of penetration AFTER breaking the thickest chunk of bone in an elk's body.
As noted earlier, Hornady Interlocks are good bullets, but they are NOT Nosler Partitions.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Hornady Interlocks ... but it did matter on the other animal, which had to be shot again because the first didn't make it into the chest after hitting the shoulder joint. J.B., do you recall the cartridge particulars, caliber, bullet weight and range for the one which didn't penetrate? I had a .358 Win 200gr Interlock SP not make it all the way through a shoulder. Fortunately, it was the off-side shoulder as I shot the buck quartering away, bullet entered towards the rear of left rib cage, destroyed the lungs, shattered the off-side scapula and lodged in the ball joint. Range was short ... about 30 to 35 yards. Charge was 47.5 grains IMR 3031. It left me wondering if the Interlock would have penetrated to vitals if I'd hit him in the shoulder at entrance. I've pondered moving up to 250 grains, although I try to avoid hitting shoulders to save meat anyways.
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Not an apples to apples comparison but I spent a period of time culling horses and was using the 270 Win for the most part. Initially was using 150g Interlocks launched around 2950fps then went to 160g NPTs launched around 2850. Shoulder shots were the norm...
No I didn't recover any because at most we would only take the hind quarters for dog meat, but the horses hit with the Partitions went down more quickly and not many needed a second shot. With the Interlocks some of them would not succumb straight away with shoulder shots.
I've not submitted bullets to any harsher tests than that, but the Partitions did impress me.
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sbhooper,
First, I'm a big fan of Hornady Interlocks and have used them to take several species of big game in weights from 100-250 grains and calibers from .25 to .35. The ones I've recovered have averaged about 50% weight retention, but two separated core and jacket. Once it didn't matter because the animal died anyway, but it did matter on the other animal, which had to be shot again because the first didn't make it into the chest after hitting the shoulder joint.
Second, Nosler Partitions are NOT made to shed the "front half" of the bullet. They're designed to lose the front core, which isn't anywhere near half the weight. The models at the smaller end of the line-up, in caliber and weight, typically lose about 30-35% of their weight, and the heaviest models lose around 10-20%.
This makes a considerable difference in penetration over the Hornady Interlock. I once shot a mule deer buck facing me in lodgepole timber with a 140-grain 7mm Partition. The bullet didn't exit but I couldn't find it inside the buck's innards. Found it a year later when biting into a round steak, retaining 60% of its weight. Also once shot a 200-grain Nosler Partition through the middle of the big joint of a 6-point elk's shoulder as the bull quartered toward me, and the bullet exited the rear of the ribcage on the other side, several feet of penetration AFTER breaking the thickest chunk of bone in an elk's body.
As noted earlier, Hornady Interlocks are good bullets, but they are NOT Nosler Partitions.
I have never once said that Interlocks were Partitions. You are splitting hairs again. I used the wrong terminology when I said front half, instead of core. After total penetration, 50-60 percent of weight retention is not a problem in my book. For me, the problem is when a bullet fragments badly, which neither have done for me over the years. Partitions SHOULD perform better than Interlocks, as they are a premium bullet and quite a bit more expensive(unless you do what I do and buy seconds). I use both types of bullets and have never had a problem with either one killing and usually exiting on elk, antelope and deer. I cannot comment on bears etc., as I have yet to get a test medium! I have usually gotten better accuracy out of the Hornady, also. There again, splitting hairs, as I have never had an issue getting hunting (moa) accuracy from either one.
Last edited by sbhooper; 10/27/16.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Gringo Loco,
The Interlock that didn't penetrate was a 117-grain .25 boattail from the .257 Roberts, muzzle velocity a little over 2900 fps. The animal was a mature mule deer doe, standing quartering toward us. My cousin was the hunter, and he put the bullet in the shoulder joint so it would angle through the chest. It would have if it hadn't come apart, but instead what was left of the jacket and core stopped in the ribcage.
The doe turned sideaway after the shot and started limping away, so he shot again, behind the shoulder, and that bullet went all the way through, putting the deer down.
The 250 roundnose Interlock is a good one in the .358 Winchester, though of course trajectory isn't very flat! I used to handload them for one of my hunting mentors for his Savage 99 after Winchester quit making 250 factory loads, and he liked the way they didn't shoot up meta and penetrated well. Among other animals he took a BIG 6x6 elk with them, but also a lot of eating-size deer. I inherited the rifle and used them as well, but Hornady eventually discontinued the round-nose, though I see them at gun shows now and then. I switched to 225 Partitions, which work very well.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Thanks for background info on that load MD.
I have a box of 250 round nose interlocks and two boxes of 250 SP's, but I'll probably hunt with 200 grains this season again instead of working up a new load. The season after that 200 IL SP didn't exit, I loaded the 200 grain round nose and shot another buck at about the same yardage. Didn't hit any shoulders that time though, and the bullet exited. I've heard that the round noses are tougher, but that's only heresay. Trajectory at these ranges is a moot point. It's rock throwing range, lol. I didn't realize Hornady had stopped producing the 250 RN, shaking my head.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yeah, I shook my head on that one too. But bullet companies prefer making money, like any other business, so eventually drop bullets that don't sell enough to justify machine time.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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sbhooper,
First, I'm a big fan of Hornady Interlocks and have used them to take several species of big game in weights from 100-250 grains and calibers from .25 to .35. The ones I've recovered have averaged about 50% weight retention, but two separated core and jacket. Once it didn't matter because the animal died anyway, but it did matter on the other animal, which had to be shot again because the first didn't make it into the chest after hitting the shoulder joint.
Second, Nosler Partitions are NOT made to shed the "front half" of the bullet. They're designed to lose the front core, which isn't anywhere near half the weight. The models at the smaller end of the line-up, in caliber and weight, typically lose about 30-35% of their weight, and the heaviest models lose around 10-20%.
This makes a considerable difference in penetration over the Hornady Interlock. I once shot a mule deer buck facing me in lodgepole timber with a 140-grain 7mm Partition. The bullet didn't exit but I couldn't find it inside the buck's innards. Found it a year later when biting into a round steak, retaining 60% of its weight. Also once shot a 200-grain Nosler Partition through the middle of the big joint of a 6-point elk's shoulder as the bull quartered toward me, and the bullet exited the rear of the ribcage on the other side, several feet of penetration AFTER breaking the thickest chunk of bone in an elk's body.
As noted earlier, Hornady Interlocks are good bullets, but they are NOT Nosler Partitions.
Great post John. I have caught some 180gr. partitions in critters shot from 30-06 and 300wsm that lost about 1/3 of their weight. I still have 1 of those bullets around here somewhere from a more recent bull (2014) I shot and it looks like the front end of the bullet just smeared off. That was from a 300 WSM moving it along about 3,000 fps. I'll have to look around and find it and weigh it to be 100% sure of what weight it retained. The rubbery hide on the offside caught that one. This year I used my old 06 with 200gr. partitions and bullet penetrated with no problems. Same same on the buck I shot with that bullet this year too...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Gringo Loco,
The Interlock that didn't penetrate was a 117-grain .25 boattail from the .257 Roberts, muzzle velocity a little over 2900 fps. The animal was a mature mule deer doe, standing quartering toward us. My cousin was the hunter, and he put the bullet in the shoulder joint so it would angle through the chest. It would have if it hadn't come apart, but instead what was left of the jacket and core stopped in the ribcage.
The doe turned sideaway after the shot and started limping away, so he shot again, behind the shoulder, and that bullet went all the way through, putting the deer down.
The 250 roundnose Interlock is a good one in the .358 Winchester, though of course trajectory isn't very flat! I used to handload them for one of my hunting mentors for his Savage 99 after Winchester quit making 250 factory loads, and he liked the way they didn't shoot up meta and penetrated well. Among other animals he took a BIG 6x6 elk with them, but also a lot of eating-size deer. I inherited the rifle and used them as well, but Hornady eventually discontinued the round-nose, though I see them at gun shows now and then. I switched to 225 Partitions, which work very well. Interesting. The only time I have had a penetration problem with an Interlock was with a 117 .25-06 load started at about 2900 fps.
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