Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Experience with Lee 320 Gr. R.E.A.L Bullet

I'm new to BP and ML. I recently purchased a CVA Hawken Sidelock in .50 caliber. I have also ordered the Lee mold that will cast a 320 grain R.E.A.L. bullet and a .490 ball.
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<br>Have any of you used the R.E.A.L. bullet? If so what kind of accuracy did you get? How did it work on deer and hog size game? A mature buck in our area will run about 100 pounds field dressed and the biggest hogs shouldn't be much over 200 pounds.

I don't have any experience with killing a deer with the Lee REAL bullet. I cast a 250 grain Lee REAL bullet, my round balls, and a 320 grain or so T/C Maxi. (like the maxi hunters you see in the store in the yellow boxes.)
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<br>I too shoot a 50 cal. A flinter and a caplock, both have 1/48 twist.
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<br>What twist is yours?
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<br>I will have to say that your 320 grain Lee bullet is PLEANTY BIG enough for the deer you plan to hunt and just right for hogs. I would use it for bigger game acutally, the hogs you describe will be perfect for the big bullet. Your round ball will do the trick very will on the deer you describe. How do I know? Well not directly from experience but from some experience.
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<br>This year I killed a 200 pound 9 point buck with my 50 cal flintlock at 60 yards. I was using a 333gr T/C Maxi I cast pushed by 80 gr FFg. I shot the deer head on hitting him between the neck and the right front shoulder. The bullet penetrated 30 inches! I was really impressed! The T/C bullet expanded nicely.
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<br>That Lee bullet you have will be perfect for hogs. I don't imagine it will expand very much on deer unless it hits bone.
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<br>I have found that I got good accuracy from my 250gr Lee bullets but they are a pain in the butt to load!
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<br>Since you cast your own, you may want to look for another mould, or trade some with some here on the board.

Blammer....Thanks for the info. I have a 1-48 twist barrel.
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<br>Like I said I'm new to muzzleloading. Why do you say the R.E.A.L. bullet is a pain to load?

REAL
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<br>Stands for Rifle Engraved At Loading, think about it....
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<br>Your engraving the bullet as you seat it. Heck off of a clean barrel this is somewhat difficult, with a fouled barrel?...get the picture? Got gorilla arm?
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<br>My 250 grain bullets are quite stubby, the REAL bullet doesn't allow for lube to be used easily on the bullet. Hence the fouling tends to be hard and not soft. (lube makes the fouling softer for easier loading)
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<br>Maybe my bullets very closely or are even tight for my rifles, maybe your mould cast them slightly undersized. I don't know. That is just my observations with my bullets and rifles.

Thanks Blammer, I thought all muzzle loader bullets engraved the rifles at loading, guess I've got lots to learn. The mold also will cast a .490 round ball, The double mold was only about $3.00 more than a single, even if I can't use the R.E.A.L. bullet, I haven't lost much.
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<br>I did find out one thing, lead is getting pretty hard to find. In past years some babbit material was almost pure lead, now days babbit material is "Lead Free". Is there an inexpensive source for lead these days?

Howdy, Ironwood. Glad to see another sidelock shooter around. I just got a CVA Hawken last August. I got a flinter, as that's all PA allows in the late season.
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<br>I haven't tried casting anything for mine yet, but have you thought of old wheel weights? If my memory serves, I believe that's what my cousin used. I'll have to ask him when I see him.
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<br>At any rate, I know we've melted down wheel weights for the boys pine-wood derby car years ago. It's no big deal. I have no idea what alloys are in them or at what percentage though.
<br>7mm

I've been running ball for about 20 years now. As for sources of lead, this is what I look for.
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<br>1.) plummers lead--high $$ these days
<br>2.) X-ray shielding--look for dry wall contractors doing hospitals
<br>3.) cable shielding--recycling centers
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<br>Wheel weights have alot of junk in them. Best to use them for fishing sinkers and lead head jigs.

Heck just go to the raidiology dept of a hospital and tell them you are there to pick up the scrap lead they have.
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<br>My hospital is very large and had a cancer raidology dept they use some nuclear tablets or something that need to be kept in lead shielded containers. They usually have to pay someone to haul them off.
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<br>I have cast round balls from wheel wieghts from a local garage. They shoot great for me they are a little lighter than pure lead balls you can buy. Don't know how they will work on game, but great for practicing.
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<br>I imagine they would work fine. Just a guess so far.
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<br>for me when loading my muzzleloader, there is a difference between "engraving" big deep groves and being tought to get down the barrel and being "snug" when loading. Sorry I didn't clarify. but you are right all bullets are 'engraved' at loading but to what degree? Each rifle is it's own law.

I finally got to shoot the Hawken yesterday. Next time I'll take more powder with me. By the time I got it almost sighted in I was down to only two loads. I was using the .490 Hornady Ball and 85 grains of Pyrodex Select. Where I was shooting the only backstop I had was at 40 yards. Those last two shots were 5/8" center to center.
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<br>I've been casting bullets for centerfire rifles and pistols for about 30 years using mostly wheel weights. Wheel weights usually have some tin and antimony in them which makes them a little on the hard side. I've always considered lead as being pure if I could dent it with my thumbnail. I guess I could just let the metals seperate in the pot and dip off the tin and antimony.
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<br>Thanks for the info on where I might pick up some lead. I'll have to check with the hospitals for sure.
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If you can dip off the tin and antimony by letting it set on the pot. LET ME KNOW! Because then the laws of physics have changed!
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<br>Seriously, I don't think you can do that.

Seriously Blammer, I wish you had not made that last statement because it brings doubt on the validity your statement about the R.E.A.L. bullet. Evidently your laws of physics are different from everyone else's. Also I SERIOUSLY doubt if you have ever done any bullet casting.
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<br>For your information here is an excerpt from my 1973 Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.
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<br>[img]http://www.lockon.com/people/photoalbums/images/12887/32/Metal%5FCasting%2Ejpg[/img]

Ironwood:
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<br>Yes, you can skim "the junk" off the top. I have done it in the past but you can't get it all off. For muzzleloading purposes it is better to use as pure as you can find. Rule of thumb, good lead should pass the thumbnail test

Thanks Wall, I wasn't sure how much I could get out. Never tried to remove it. My problem has always been keeping it combined.

Ironwood, I can't add much to what has all ready been said but I do shoot the Lee R.E.A.L. in .54 cal.
<br>I cast a lot..by that I mean I usually get to shoot around a couple hundred rounds a week, most of this is 45-70 but I do cast and shoot several other calibers, and the .54 front stuffer.
<br>I have shot WW and Pure lead through my Hawken. (I do realize only pure lead is recommended.) When I first got the R.E.A.L. mould I used the method described in the Lyman Manual to get as much tin out as possible. I ran the pot at full temp for as long as three hours with WW dipping out, what I thought, was tin and antimony. The gun shot OK, but not good. Loading was hard and fouling was bad. But the bullet was sure pretty!
<br>I then cast some pure lead bullets, fluxed with candle wax, and tried them. Man! What a difference! The gun shot better, much better.
<br>My twist is 1:48 and seems to do Maxi's and Round Balls much better than the R.E.A.L. Perhaps a faster twist will work better with this bullet.
<br>Everyone I have spoken to about REAL's seem to have something different to say about them. Only a few actually give praise to this bullet. I feel sure the design is a good one and requires a bit more "tinkering" to get things just right. Most likely the problem lies in the lube although I've tried several, I just haven't found the right one yet.
<br>Keep "working" with it once you start casting the "right" one, and I believe you will have a performer....that's, at least, what I keep telling myself.
<br>Respectfully, Russ

7mmbuster.... Thank you for the nice welcome.
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<br>Wall & RBark7X57.....Thank you for the very useful information. Hopefully by next week I will have some bullets cast and we can see how they work in my Hawken.
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Thank you for correcting me, obviously I made a mistake. Not intentionally and would not try to steer anyone in the wrong direction on purpose.
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<br>I must be thinking of another metal that once introduced into lead cannot be seperated. It is a permanent addition for all practical purposes.
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<br>As far as you doubting if I ever did any bullet casting. Well that is your opinion and I'll leave you to it.
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<br>I did not mean to offend.
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<br>Good-day sir.

I finally got around to casting a few of the R.E.A.L. bullets. Now all I have to do is find the time to shoot them.
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<br>I only cast about 30 bullets and got 23 shootable ones from that batch. I was a little worried. It was about 37 degrees with high humidity. There were a few things getting some condensation on them so I stopped casting.

nice looking bullets, let us know how they shoot!

Ironwood,
I tried that REAL bullet in my REM700ML 1:28 twist. The bullets were cast from old lead roof flashing. I was not impressed with the accuracy. The addition of a bore button helped quite a bit, but I never got comfortable enough to hunt with them.
Good Luck!
Mule

Ironwood,
In regards to your doubting Blammers statement on not being able to seperate Tin from Lead. It is possible thru some very sophisticated distillation processes, but believe me it's a VERY complicated process and nothing the averge caster could afford. Can you say millions of dollars worth of equipment?
I'm afraid you and many others have a common misconception about this.
Might I suggest some additional reading. Lyman's 3rd Edition Cast Bullet Handbook. On page 43 there is a 9 page article dealing with "The Metallurgy of Molten Lead Alloys" by Dennis Marshall. A noted metallurgist. And he references 14 sources as his bonifides.
Suffice to say Lead, Tin, & Antimony alloys can not be seperated out in the casting pot.
The part you quoted from an earlier Lyman Handbook is also mentioned in the latest handbook, and why it's there I have no idea.
The statement you posted is not 100% correct in that just the Tin is seperated out. It is seperated out along with the Lead and other impurities it is alloyed with in the melt. The dross you see on top of the melt is 90 some % alloy. Fluxing, of course puts this all back into the melt.