Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters spherical powder shelf life?

I want to order a few 8lb containers of powder I use regularly, 2 of which are ball type powders. I mentioned this to a couple of friends and they said that ball powder shelf life is not nearly as long as extruded. One friend even pointed to a few lines in a new norma manual stating the same.

First off, Is this true at all? Also what is the shelf life on properly stored spherical powders?

Thanks

I've got sphericals on the shelf that were purchased in the late 1970's.

I have no idea and neither does anybody else with much specificity.

I have some ball that wasn't particularly properly stored going on 50 and lots that's in a robust middle age - using it up gets harder in shotguns because wads and hulls go away and nobody shoots data with older powders. Speer 11 has a lot of data for now long discontinued 452 and 473 in handguns. There is flake properly stored from the 19 century that still meets specs.

I'd worry a whole lot more about fire code limits on storage and scatter storage of large amounts. I also find myself torn between trying to use up what I have and trying all the newer Australian say Varget, or copper fouling or temperature insensitive. Hard to justify buying TAC when there's a 3031 load that still works with the powder in the closet - but I do rationalize it smiley.

The only powder I've had that went bad was a stick powder, 7828 and I was given the full 1# can and have no idea it's history of storage, how old it was or why it went bad.

I have some 2400 that is in Hercules packaging so at least 30 years old and it works great, also same vintage Unique that works great.

I have 1 can H 335 from yrs. ago. It's still good.

Depends on storage environment.

Jerry

Store it in a stable temperature (air conditioned) environment without extreme variances . Keep the lid tight.

The double base powders are more stable due to the nitroglycerine content also.

You can test your powders before using. Which you should do if in doubt. I can explain how if you would like me to, but later,
the wife is calling.

I read years ago that spherical powder had a much longer shelf life than extruded if it is stored properly. I have some H-4831 that was purchased in the late '60's and ball powder that is 42 years old. Most of the powder I've discarded has been extruded.

Testing Canister Powders for deterioration.

A fresh canister of powder when first opened will have a strong solvent smell. This is good. The more times you open it for your loading purposes, more of the solvent will evaporate. It does not hurt anything. It may even get to a point where there is very little smell at all. No problem.

Now, if you open a canister and smell it, and it smells caustic and dry smelling, then you know it is bad.

Then you try the second test.
Get the whitest piece of 8 1/2" X 11" letter paper you have. Fold it in half length wise. Have a clean container handy. Pour out the Powder in the canister slowly down the crease in the paper you just folded into the clean container. About a cupful will do. If the powder is bad, you will see Rust colored dust. Some powder gives off very little dust, some more so.

If it is bad. Outside, pour the powder in small piles or a small line. Light it up. Then pretend you are a bad guy in the series "Gunsmoke" trying to blow up the saloon.

Watch out for Marshall Dillon.

Gibby -

Powder gone bad makes good fertilizer in flower beds or the lawn.

Jerry

Some powders specifically prohibit that method as a means of disposal, FWIW.

Yea, my method is before the EPA got in to every thing. The old loading manuals from powder manufactures was before the EPA.

Common sense prevails of coarse.

Will it help my pepper plants?

Fertilizer is Fertilizer.

Jerry

Yea, not saying one way or another. Mostly they have some substances which are listed with aquatic toxicity. Burning is generally acceptable; not sure I'd want to ingest some of the things therein in my food, but I'm sure we've all probably eaten worse. I would surmise that a nice scattering of old powder on the lawn might help deter problems with cigarette butt flippers if one were so afflicted.

More fun to play pyrotechnician (the special effects kind). Just remember a nitrocellulose flare puts out much more heat than you'd expect.

One I've been wanting to try is a few ounces of SMOKELESS powder in a mortar (basically steel pipe on a plate for stability) - my special effects book recommends Green Dot. Long fuse or electric igniter, stand back about three times what you figure will do. But my old, old pistol powder is still good - is that a plus or a minus?

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On re-reading just to be clear, no projectile. You're making a flare. Should be impressive and safe for the Fourth if you get it balanced right.

I read in the 2015 Handloader mag on DVD just the opposite; ball/spherical powder's shelf life, if kept cool and dry, is almost unlimited. I'm not sure which issue or the author but I trust those guys. They have a lot of combined knowledge.

Depends at least in part on processing, they had some issues when they first invented the stuff. After the nitrocellulose is formed into a ball and the solvent is removed, moisture and some acid remains in the ball. The trick is to wash and neutralize the acid contained inside that hard little ball, the left over acid is what deteriorates the powder. They figured out the washing and neutralizing process pretty quickly.

In 40 + yrs of handloading, I've only had ONE piece of a can of powder go bad. It was extruded .

I sprinkled it on my yard.

I've ALWAYS kept my powder IN my house -- atmosphere controlled, no problems.

Jerry

Double-base powders go bad more quickly than single-base. That's why the military's time-based condemnation limits with stored, bulk powder specify earlier discard of double-base than single-base. Those time-based condemnation limits generally apply when various other (test-based) criteria are unable to be applied for some reason.

Norma does say that spherical propellants degrade more rapidly than extruded. Don't know whether their article was comparing Eurenco sphericals to Eurenco extrudeds, General Dynamics sphericals to Eurenco (Norma) extrudeds, or some other combo.

Here's a link to military work on the topic of stabilizer breakdown and heat. There is unquestionably a difference in how quickly powder degrades based on temp at which it is stored, and by powder type and formulation.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/783499.pdf

There are some other military papers, but their URLs have changed so I can't link them any more.

Store powder as cold and dry as feasible, and in sealed metal containers, for longest life.

MZ5 -

Thnx for the post & link.

Jerry