|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,824 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,824 Likes: 1 |
Hey, if someone would spend money on a new truck made in Mexico, why worry about a few boxes of .22 rf?
Mathew 22: 37-39
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,945 Likes: 23
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,945 Likes: 23 |
You needed to segregate them to do what? Shoot benchrest?
Dave No, just to shoot paper. When shooting paper, I prefer to shoot good, consistent, ammo, like mid-grade Eley or RWS, so that I can have a high degree of confidence that any poor groups aren't related to the ammo. IIRC, the Aguila ammo that I bought and sorted was Super Extra sub-sonic 40 grain lead. I sorted 1K of it by rim thickness, 1K by weight, and 1K by weight and rim thickness. After doing all that sorting, I decided that I'd rather spend a little more $$ for ammo if it would allow me to leave the rim thickness gauge and a scale on the shelf. Well, instead of doing all that stupid schit you should have just shot it. That's the same ammo our smallbore rifle club uses. Haven't seen anybody blaming the ammo for causing low scores out of their 54's. Dave The Super Express subsonic shot inconsistent group in a variety of accurate rifles, which is why I bought the rim thickness gauge and tried to improve the performance by sorting it. While sorting it did improve the results, significantly reducing fliers, the effort to sort it wasn't worth time involved, so I have opted to buy better ammo. Aguila still makes a subsonic 22LR round, but they no longer call it "Super Express" and the graphics on the packaging is different. It is their item #18222269 at www.agilaammo.com.I don't doubt that other people have had good success with Aguila ammo, but I didn't, so I have opted not to buy it as long as mid-grade Eley and RWS options are available. You probably just tried the wrong ones. I've not gotten great accuracy out of any of their sporting loads, but the Match stuff is different. One of my suppliers has it for about $3 a box less than the RWS lower end match ammo too, a pretty good savings.
What fresh Hell is this?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,412
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,412 |
I've shot 2 or 3 varieties of the sporting stuff out of my 452 and it's been quite good, groups just slightly larger than one raggedy hole at 50 yards. I haven't shot the match yet but look forward to doing that. And yes, it does stink. BFD.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,237 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,237 Likes: 1 |
You needed to segregate them to do what? Shoot benchrest?
Dave No, just to shoot paper. When shooting paper, I prefer to shoot good, consistent, ammo, like mid-grade Eley or RWS, so that I can have a high degree of confidence that any poor groups aren't related to the ammo. IIRC, the Aguila ammo that I bought and sorted was Super Extra sub-sonic 40 grain lead. I sorted 1K of it by rim thickness, 1K by weight, and 1K by weight and rim thickness. After doing all that sorting, I decided that I'd rather spend a little more $$ for ammo if it would allow me to leave the rim thickness gauge and a scale on the shelf. Well, instead of doing all that stupid schit you should have just shot it. That's the same ammo our smallbore rifle club uses. Haven't seen anybody blaming the ammo for causing low scores out of their 54's. Dave The Super Express subsonic shot inconsistent group in a variety of accurate rifles, which is why I bought the rim thickness gauge and tried to improve the performance by sorting it. While sorting it did improve the results, significantly reducing fliers, the effort to sort it wasn't worth time involved, so I have opted to buy better ammo. Aguila still makes a subsonic 22LR round, but they no longer call it "Super Express" and the graphics on the packaging is different. It is their item #18222269 at www.agilaammo.com.I don't doubt that other people have had good success with Aguila ammo, but I didn't, so I have opted not to buy it as long as mid-grade Eley and RWS options are available. You probably just tried the wrong ones. I've not gotten great accuracy out of any of their sporting loads, but the Match stuff is different. One of my suppliers has it for about $3 a box less than the RWS lower end match ammo too, a pretty good savings. You're probably right, I haven't tried a variety of Aguila .22 LR ammo and it is also possible that the lot that I got wasn't up to their usual standards. My normal baseline .22 LR ammo is Eley Club, Eley Target, RWS Rifle Match, and RWS Target Rifle. Which of the Aguila varieties do you like, Rifle Match or Target?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,349 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,349 Likes: 1 |
I have a custom 40X, 3-Mod37 Remingtons left,a 1922 M2, and other RF rifles. I have 2 bricks of Eley Tenex in 2 different lots, 2 bricks of Fiocchi Super Match, several bricks of various Russian ammo, RWS, 3 bricks of CCI Minimag, 2 bricks of Western Super X,1 brick of Federal Hi-Power and 2 bricks left of Aguila SE. I have a few boxes of various other RF ammo. The Aguila SE is the most consistent RF ammo that I have shot in my rifles. My SE is an old lot and is marked Eley primed. Maybe the new stuff isn't as good, but I doubt that.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 163
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 163 |
I have had VERY good accuracy from their S Vel line and will continue to support them as they were about the only RF ammo that could be found the last several years--Seems they geared up and everyone else forgot us
"2Day is the 1st Day of the rest of UR Life"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,863
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,863 |
Aguila Super Extra standard velocity 38grn hp, or 40grn solids shot wonderfully for me in my CZ 452. I have shot it to 165 yards on steel a lot, and used it on varmints to 85 yards +/-.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971 |
Aquila is kind of my hero when it comes to rim fire ammo.
I believe the ammo shortage would have been a minimal event if the industry recognized there was an honest increase in demand for rim fire ammo. Instead they just pissed out the usual quantities of 22LR. I was able to buy RWS all through the shortage. That expensive stuff did not move as fast. For normal use, I was lucky to have a some old bricks. I even sold an old brick with the bullets turning white from corrosion. Everybody was happy, the stuff still went bang. You be surprised that is all a lot of new shooters want.
Ok, so Aquila stepped up like a good capitalist and invested in equipment an filled the vacuum. If not for Aquila, I believe we would still be in a shortage situation.
BTW, Claiming ammo is accurate without some kind data (numbers) is totally meaningless.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,037 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,037 Likes: 28 |
rifle match is accurate little dirty though
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,237 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,237 Likes: 1 |
Aquila is kind of my hero when it comes to rim fire ammo.
I believe the ammo shortage would have been a minimal event if the industry recognized there was an honest increase in demand for rim fire ammo. Instead they just pissed out the usual quantities of 22LR. I was able to buy RWS all through the shortage. That expensive stuff did not move as fast. For normal use, I was lucky to have a some old bricks. I even sold an old brick with the bullets turning white from corrosion. Everybody was happy, the stuff still went bang. You be surprised that is all a lot of new shooters want.
Ok, so Aquila stepped up like a good capitalist and invested in equipment an filled the vacuum. If not for Aquila, I believe we would still be in a shortage situation.
BTW, Claiming ammo is accurate without some kind data (numbers) is totally meaningless. Is is possible that American ammunition manufacturers were busy filling military contracts for the good guys to train with and to shoot at the bad guys in Afghanistan and Iraq? OTOH, Mexican ammunition manufacturers don't need to make much military ammo, as the Mexican military spends its time hiding and pretending that the drug cartels don't control their country. My standard for .22 LR ammo is how well it shoots at 50' from at least one of my accurate rifles. The Aguila SE subsonic that I have had twice as many different rim thickness measurements, 8, than the worst American standard grade ammo, not bulk pack, that I tested. The different rim thicknesses likely contributed to the fliers from the unsorted ammo. I like the price that Sportsman's Guide is getting for Aguila SE standard velocity, $33.24 per carton, and will probably order a few cartons for plinking cans and such.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,782
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,782 |
Stinks - shoots good but has a funk. Whatever Hornady puts in their .17HMR ammo sure smells nice.
A true sportsman counts his achievements in proportion to the effort involved and fairness of the sport. - S. Pope
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Is is possible that American ammunition manufacturers were busy filling military contracts for the good guys to train with and to shoot at the bad guys in Afghanistan and Iraq? OTOH, Mexican ammunition manufacturers don't need to make much military ammo, as the Mexican military spends its time hiding and pretending that the drug cartels don't control their country.
My standard for .22 LR ammo is how well it shoots at 50' from at least one of my accurate rifles. The Aguila SE subsonic that I have had twice as many different rim thickness measurements, 8, than the worst American standard grade ammo, not bulk pack, that I tested. The different rim thicknesses likely contributed to the fliers from the unsorted ammo.
I like the price that Sportsman's Guide is getting for Aguila SE standard velocity, $33.24 per carton, and will probably order a few cartons for plinking cans and such.
You're an idiot. Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,854 |
I don't know about idiots and such. But I do know that the Super Colibri is fun around the house on grackles and Eurasian Collared.
Sent from my Dingleberry Handheld Wireless
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,349 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,349 Likes: 1 |
Real competitors quit measuring rims in the olden days.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,237 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,237 Likes: 1 |
Is is possible that American ammunition manufacturers were busy filling military contracts for the good guys to train with and to shoot at the bad guys in Afghanistan and Iraq? OTOH, Mexican ammunition manufacturers don't need to make much military ammo, as the Mexican military spends its time hiding and pretending that the drug cartels don't control their country.
My standard for .22 LR ammo is how well it shoots at 50' from at least one of my accurate rifles. The Aguila SE subsonic that I have had twice as many different rim thickness measurements, 8, than the worst American standard grade ammo, not bulk pack, that I tested. The different rim thicknesses likely contributed to the fliers from the unsorted ammo.
I like the price that Sportsman's Guide is getting for Aguila SE standard velocity, $33.24 per carton, and will probably order a few cartons for plinking cans and such.
You're an idiot. Dave You're rude.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 971 |
Is is possible that American ammunition manufacturers were busy filling military contracts for the good guys to train with and to shoot at the bad guys in Afghanistan and Iraq? OTOH, Mexican ammunition manufacturers don't need to make much military ammo, as the Mexican military spends its time hiding and pretending that the drug cartels don't control their country. 260, Wow, really? If you keep your criticism to the ammo it would be a lot more believable than mixing in a lot of weird sounding politics. That just makes you sound bias.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,237 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,237 Likes: 1 |
[quote=butchlambert1]Real competitors quit measuring rims in the olden days. [/quote
Perhaps that is so, but I'm not a competitive shooter.
I was looking for a way to squeeze better performance out of a pile of Aguila SE Subsonic ammo that had a propensity for fliers, so I bought a Bald Eagle rim thickness gauge. There were reports that people using the Bald Eagle rim thickness gauge to sort their ammo were claiming up to a 30% improvement in their group size.
Measuring the rims and segregating the ammo by rim thickness did improve the performance, by eliminating fliers, but so did sorting it by weight and sorting it by rim thickness and then sub-sorting that group by weight. When sorted by rim thickness, the Aguila fell into 8 different groups that showed a normal curve distribution, with the majority falling into 2 groups. In addition to the 3K rounds of Aguila SE subsonic, I measured the rim thickness and sorted 100 rounds each of several other brands and styles of 22 LR ammo ranging from the least expensive Federal to Eley Tenex. The Federal sorted into 4 different groups with the majority falling into 1 group and the other inexpensive ammo from Peters and Remington falling into 2 or 3 groups. The mid-grade Eley and RWS and the high grade Eley only had 1 rim thickness.
After doing all that work, I decided that except for plinking ammo, I'd rather pay a little more for mid-grade Eley or RWS and tossed the rim thickness gauge into a box that is probably sitting on a dusty shelf somewhere in the storage unit.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,237 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,237 Likes: 1 |
Is is possible that American ammunition manufacturers were busy filling military contracts for the good guys to train with and to shoot at the bad guys in Afghanistan and Iraq? OTOH, Mexican ammunition manufacturers don't need to make much military ammo, as the Mexican military spends its time hiding and pretending that the drug cartels don't control their country. 260, Wow, really? If you keep your criticism to the ammo it would be a lot more believable than mixing in a lot of weird sounding politics. That just makes you sound bias. Well, I do have a negative bias toward Mexico. After all, most of the illegal drugs and illegal aliens come to the U.S. from Mexico. As far as the ammo goes, my experience with Aguila appears to be different than most others. My Aguila experience is limited to 3 different varieties, with most of it coming from the one large lot of SE Subsonic ammo. I bought it for $20 per carton to plink with, but being a gadgeteer, I bought a Bald Eagle rim thickness gauge with the hope that using it would eliminate those annoying fliers. It did work, but the time required to sort the ammo didn't offset the difference in cost between the Aguila and the mid-grade Eley and RWS enough for me to want to keep doing it. As noted earlier, I'll probably buy some of the cheap Aguila from SG for the kids to shoot at cans and rocks and sticks when we go to Colorado next week. If my kids don't shoot up their share, I'll give it to the ranch manager for his kids to shoot.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,516
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,516 |
I have a brick that is SEVERAL year old and in my Mossberg 44US(a) it is by far the most accurate ammo I have.
Not so in other 22s.
That is the problem with 22s, one has t find the right ammo to get accuracy rather than working up a good load.
Some spelling errors can be corrected by a vowel movement. ~ MOLON LABE ~
|
|
|
|
544 members (06hunter59, 163bc, 204guy, 1lessdog, 1minute, 1badf350, 68 invisible),
2,524
guests, and
1,212
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,787
Posts18,515,869
Members74,017
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|