Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting More bullet gack - elk in the timber

Bill, I'll let you borrow my .338-06 with 210 PT's and you can try it out for yourself.

I have taken two decent bulls in "timber" (if aspen and mixed-conifer thickets count). Both were shot at less than 25 yards and both were taken with 250-grain Swift A-Frames--the first from a .338 Win Mag and the second from a .338-06. The bullet from the .338 Win Mag exited, but I recovered the bullet from the .338-06 just under the hide on far side. Both bulls ran about 40 or so yards and died within ear-shot. FWIW, they didn't die any quicker than a number of bulls that I have shot at various ranges with other cartridges ranging from a 7mm Rem Mag up to a .375 H&H.

I didn't specifically choose either rifle/cartridge/bullet combination for hunting in the trees, they just happened to be what I was carrying on that particular day. The 250 A-Frames were simply the most accurate bullet that I tried in each of the rifles (a custom .338 mag built on a 1903 Springfield action and a Ruger No. 1 rebrarreled to .338-06).

Here you go Joe:

In Finn's test the 30-06 180 NP out-penetrated the 270 150 and 160 NP, though not by any tremendous amount. Seems fair to assume the 200 NP will at least equal, and likely better the 338 WM 250 NP.

Were I going to AK tomorrow on a Brown Bear hunt I'd likely just take a 30-06 loaded with 200 NP's or a 308 with 180 NP's.

No deer but 6 elk in 270, 7mm, and 30 cals.

The Northforks kept their front ends more intact resulting in a mushroom that didn't seem to "wipe off" as readily as Partitions. Consequently they didn't penetrate as far. Remember, larger the mushroom and the longer it remains intact the less penetration the bullet will have. One bullet that exited appeared to have lost the front end and had a small exit hole. Recovered bullets had a thicker front jacket that I could tell.

Based on my limited observation on elk, the Northfork is a tough bullet and I was impressed. Thing is the Northforks are verily expensive compared to Partitions and are trading one performance factor for another.

There are always trade offs.

They'ed probably work very well for deer, but my thinkinng is they are more bullet, and more expensive, than needed.

Casey

My current ideal of a 'timber' rifle pushes a .338 210 Partition at 2600. This rifle weighs only 5lb 13oz, which is great for carrying, but I don't think I want anymore smack from it. Turns out that when hunting at 10,000+ it retains its velocity pretty well too, enough that I don't feel in any way limited. But when I find elk, they seem to be in really thick stuff up close. I haven't shot enough elk to make any recommendations, but I was a little surprised when both the 160 and 185 TTSX did more internal damage than a 180BT. More holes too! I may just stick with the 185 TTSX at 2800fps, or not. I'll change my mind at least 50 times between now and next season. Might even go with a 140gn 6.5 at 2700ish.

Folks often talk about bullets with larger frontal areas not penetrating as deeply as (say) Partitions and other bullets that set up smaller frontal areas, and as a general rule this is probably true.

But sometimes I think the difference is not all that great,and I think people interpret this stuff to mean that the bullets with larger frontal areas do not penetrate "enough",which IME is not true at all.

I have recovered a pretty fair number of Partition bullets and Bitterroots from game and under conditions where both have been stopped the depth of penetration has been pretty similar. The Partitions will exit more often, in general ,but I have never seen situation where the Bitterroot penetration could be considered the least bit inadequate.

Here's a 160 BBC fired from a 7RM into a bull's neck from above and behind. It raveled maybe 3/4 of the neck ,pulping muscle and bone all the way,and was recovered under the chin. Based on a lot of use a Partition might have made the trip as well but doubt it would have done any better. It's expanded to a bit over .70 caliber and weighs 159 gr.

The BBC is in general a tougher bullet than the Partition,and I bet the same is true of things like the NF and Aframe.

You want penetration (then again how much is enough?). Here's a comparison between a 168gr TSX and a 200gr Nosler from a 300 Weatherby. Penetration was exactly the same. Note the weight retention....

jorg: I don't doubt it. My buddy RinB on here watched the 200 gr NPT from a 300 WM used in Africa along with a 7mm 145 Barnes LRX and said you couldn't tell them apart.They shot quite a few plains game.

You can ask him.

Think it was custom smith Joe Smithson doing the shooting with the 300 WM.

Bob: I just wanted to point out of the reasons as to why some folks prefer monometals. You can go down in bullet weight without losing penetration. Also, if you look at the bullets themselves, it appears that TSX would tend to cause more damage. Personally, I have not done enough hands on research, but this much I know: I use whatever bullet works best in the particular rifle I plant to hunt with and of course, I match velocity to construction. That elk I shot with my 300 Weatherby with a 180 TTSX showed complete and utter internal destruction and the heart had a fifty cent sized hole throught the center of it. Cheers, J

You said "utter".

Nice.



Elk shoulders will stop bullets, especially basic C&C bulets. I've dug quite a few out over the years, scarred and calloused over from seasons past. If you're a shoulder shooter, using a bullet that penetrates deeply is never a bad thing. I'm more of a tight behind the shoulder shooter, but have accidentally put them in the shoulders before, especially when in the tight timbered areas. Other times it is the only shot you get.

I do dearly love AMAXs for elk, but if I think I may be in the timber, I often pack something else. The old style speer grand slams are AWESOME bullets, if a guy can find some anymore. To answer the OP's question, I don't think there's much advantage to using a .338 of any flavor over the -06 and 200 grain partitions because it penetrates plenty...unless you like something about the gun itself.

I was gonna ask about your 338-06 build. I remember liking it. I may be in Saegertown in January.

NF 338, 225 grain after entering last rib on right side, found in neck. Love these North Forks...killed three bulls in three years with this bullet.

Jorge, IMO/ IME a TSX will certainly not do as much damage. For a couple reasons. One being that it does not shed the front end like a Nosler Partition is designed to do and secondly a Barnes typically has less frontal area due to the space between the petals.
IMO the TTSX only redeeming factor is the fact I don't have to worry about feeding my kids lead, which is my motivation for using them. That and they seem to be far less bitchy as far as getting them to shoot goes vs. the Nosler and Hornady monometals.

Godog how many grooves does your barrel have?

Godog, how did you get that bullet reloaded 3 times!! Joke!!

Ha! I probably could have worded my reply mo better.

Haven't counted the grooves. I'm shooting a late 60's Sako 338 with its original Bofors steel barrel. It'll shoot em into 0.4" groups at 100 yds. The Sako gurus will probably know.

My experiences are VASTLY different that yours.

PM replied to.

And vastly different than assorted tests of this subject as well as the design of said bullets.