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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,939 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,939 Likes: 1 |
I agree with MD in that I have very little to no difference in the load between a Nosler and a TSX
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 889
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 889 |
My older brother uses a Savage 99, 300 Savage. He has one leg and (lost the other in a logging accident)therefore sits in a stand all day. He has used that rifle a lot, and has killed some damn nice whitetails here in northern Wisc, and Michigan. His favorite load is 43 grs of 4064 and a Speer 130 gr hp. I can vouch for its effectiveness, as I get to gut most of them. They are either DRT or 10 steps away. I don't know how they would work on bigger game, but if your deer hunting that's our experience.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,936
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,936 |
Thank God in Northern CA we still shoot lead............I'm shooting a Condor also if I ever see one of those dinosaurs up hear.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,936
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,936 |
I doubt I will buy Barnes ver 4 reload book. They put together a skeleton book from what I have seen. Also, I didnt like the rush job they did on ver 3.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,340
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,340 |
The type of person who enjoys shooting a .300 Savage out of a Model 99 is happy with the killing power of CoreLokts, Interlocks, Hor-Cor, and Gameking. They are trying to get 3,000 fps while watching for split cases. How the hell do you know what type of person I am
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 180
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 180 |
I don't like to see any of the great old American smokeless classics dropped. It gives the false impression that no one needs modern reloads for the classics. I also own a 300 Savage Rem 722 and I won't buy a loading manual that excludes it.
You can't miss fast enough to win!
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,156 Likes: 13
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,156 Likes: 13 |
Actually I would highly recommend the #4 to anybody who wants to shoot TSX's. It's by far the best manual Barnes has put out--and I'm not just saying that because I have one cartridge write-up!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,660
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
It took a couple of days but barnes replied to my email see below...
Hi Ted,
We recommend the X Bullet load data from the #3 Barnes manual for use with the TSX Bullets of equal weight.
See attached.
Thanks, Ty
We Aim to please, reloading is a great hobby, enjoy it.
Ty Herring
Barnes Bullets
Customer Service Director
P.O. Box 215 American Fork Utah 84003
Tel 801-756-4222
1-800-574-9200
Fax 801-756-2465
Ted
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 104
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 104 |
Could someone please post, or p.m. me the load data from #3 manual for a 150gr X/TSX/TTSX?
So,, why DID Barnes drop all data for the 300 Savage from their site??
Thanks, All
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,819 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,819 Likes: 6 |
That's a puzzler. I can see taking it out of a book to make room for something else, but why drop existing data from the web? I don't have any if their manuals, but download the PDFs into my iPad for anything I'm considering.
loadbooks.com has a manual for the .300. For those who've not seen them, they compile data for cartridges from powder and bullet company sources and put it in neat little spiral-bound books, one cartridge per book. Pretty handy.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 104
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 104 |
Thank you!! My local Cabela's carries these. :-) I don't have a 330 SVG yet, but am looking for one in the future.
I have a SVG bolt .308, which is nice for longer range.. and I have a 30.06, Rem 7600 pump, 18"bbl; I don't like how the sling pulls the pump/action closed...
Anyway,, Thanks!!
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,156
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,156 |
These numbers indicate that the two different styles of bullets are pretty close. While there are variations, sometimes the TSX can take a little less powder, and sometimes a little more powder. On average it works about to about the same, and certainly the variations could be accounted for by variations in powder lots, primers, brass etc.
Thank you. The hysterics that abound when discussing load workup here never ceases to entertain. As Steelhead says, this ain't brain surgery. Get a chronograph, start low and work up. If the velocities seem too good to be true then they probably are so back down to something that is reasonable for the round. I load a bunch of barnes TTSX's in several rounds and any time I want to know where to start I go the the powder manufacturer's website for load data. I grab whatever is listed for that weight bullet, cup and core or not, and start from there. Your rifle will tell you what it wants, load data is just a starting point. Any variation between a TTSX and a cup and core bullet is more than overshadowed by the variations between the proof barrel the data was developed in and your own rifle.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 104
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 104 |
You went way over my head,, but/and appreciate your response! I know how to look for pressure problems. I was thinking of taking the above advice of looking at Nosler data and starting with the starting loads, or below and working up.
(I reload steel shotshells, with Steel powder,, and if one isn't fairly close, the results can be terrible. Rifle reloading seems to be somewhat more forgiving. Please correct me, if I'm of base. With shotshells, the make of the primer can make crazy changes in pressures.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,819 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,819 Likes: 6 |
Let's just look at the record, so to speak. By this I mean let's look at some "maximum" data from Barnes using the TSX, and some from a recent manual using lead-core bullets. I chose the Nosler #6:
.223 Rem.--
Barnes, 53 TSX, 26.0 TAC
Nosler, 55 BT, 26.0
.22-250--
Barnes, 53 TSX, 37.5 TAC
Nosler, 55 BT, 35.5
.243 Win.--
Barnes, 85 TSX, 41.0 RL19, 46.5 Hunter, 45.0 IMR4831
Nosler, 85-90, 43.5, 46.5 Hunter, 44.5 IMR4831
.25-06--
Barnes, 100 TSX, 62.5 Magnum, 54.0 RL19
Nosler, 100, 62.0 Magnum. 54.5 RL19
Barnes, 115 TSX, 56.5 Retumbo, 115, 52.0 RL19
Nosler, 115, 57.5 Retumbo, 50.0 RL19
.270 Win.--
Barnes, 130 TSX 57.5 Hunter
Nosler, 130, 57.5 Hunter
Barnes, 150 TSX 55.0 RL19
Nosler, 150, 55.0 RL19
.300 Win. Magnum--
Barnes, 180 TSX, 73.0 RL22
Nosler, 180, 75.5 RL22
.338 Win.
Barnes, 210 TSX, 70.0 IMR4350
Nosler, 210, 73.0 IMR4350
.375 H&H--
Barnes, 300 TSX, 71.5 RL15, 67.0 H4895
Nosler, 300, 68.0 RL15, 67.5 H4895
These numbers indicate that the two different styles of bullets are pretty close. While there are variations, sometimes the TSX can take a little less powder, and sometimes a little more powder. On average it works about to about the same, and certainly the varaiations could be accounted for by variations in powder lots, primers, brass etc.
Now there are variations in pressure produced by ALL kinds of bullets of a certain weight and diameter. Some manuals also use really bizarre techniques of reporting data, such as working it up in a pressure barrel and then firing it in a worn old Model 70 for velocity numbers. But the Barnes and Nosler data was worked up in pretty much the same way, in pressure barrels only. The above numbers indicate that the pressure produced by TSX's and at least some lead-cored bullets are pretty similar. I usually go to the Hodgdon annual manuals first and have noticed the data for the TSX and TTSX show some pretty impressive speeds. I have to think the grooves are working to reduce pressures. The other mono-metals with no grooves or less aggressive ones like the e-tips and GMX, seem to require lower charges and can't be pushed quite as fast.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950 |
Kenner,
if you are hand loading for your rifle the chronograph is the next tool to get if you have a little extra coin from your tax return. Its the speedometer for your work. Without one you are in a guessing game about your loads and rifle.
Its not essential to reloading but it answers a lot of questions in metallic loading.
IF your load is at or below published velocity of a manufactures book data chances are very good that you are in a very reasonable pressure area.
See Mule Deers articles on this subject.
As for shotguns and steel powder your right on. No substations recommended. Ive used it since the 90's and have proven to myself that its a very good powder. But not to be used without some good data on the parts in your load. I still weigh each powder charge of it. Be careful using a chronograph with a shotgun. Ive proven that you need to set it up right or the wad/ shot can make a real mess of your speedometer.
I used to only shoot shotguns and rimfires, then I made the mistake of getting a subscription to handloader.......
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,738 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,738 Likes: 3 |
And 8+ years later it still isn't rocket science.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 104
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 104 |
Nosler shows IMR4064 with a 4 grain range, with the top giving/showing 2,565 fps and pressure of 45,400 CUP at 99%/Nosler #5 shows 90%, capacity. This agrees with the Hodgdon site.
Do you think it would be a good practice to work up from the bottom, going by 1/2 grain, checking for pressure signs on the brass/primer and even amount of recoil??
Would middle of the road be okay?? That would be 2 grains below the top, which is what the diff seems to be in the chart, above.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,275
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,275 |
Thanks to all, and especially to JB.
Barnes folks are reluctant to make any recommendations except to follow their own data (not a major surprise). If that data is missing from their book (such as the 300 Savage), that isn't overly helpful.
If I were loading Barnes bullets in a 300 Savage, I think I'd take data for the 308 Winchester and deduct 5% from Barnes load data and start from there. Good advice.
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,340
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,340 |
Of course Barnes Dropped the data for the 300 Savage!
They read the shooting forums too and they came to find out that unless you're pushing a Barnes bullet 4000 feet per second the animals just walk away for hundreds and hundreds of yards so there was no sense in having it.... it was only going to make their bullets look bad!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,173
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,173 |
As fine a cartridge as I'm sure it is, I figure Barnes dropped it from the manual because it's obsolete and very few people handload for it or hunt with it anymore.
It's been quite a while since .300 Savage rifles were commonly available.
But... those of us who handload... We can keep the cool old cartridges alive!
Guy
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