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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 87
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 87 |
I just finished a quick check of the velocity of a 300 WSM load using IMR 4350 at -5 degrees Fahrenheit with very good results.
Load Details:
65.5 grains IMR4350
180 grain Barnes TTSX
Fed 215M
Norma Brass
COL: 2.900"
The load is listed as max in the Barnes #4 manual with the only changes being the brass and COL.
The gun is a Winchester M70 with a 24" barrel.
At 75 degrees velocities were 2996, 3009, and 3037 fps.
At -5 degrees velocities were 3003, 2996, and 3003 fps.
In both cases the gun and ammo was allowed to acclimate for a couple hours before shooting. I used a cheap ProChrono set 15 feet from the muzzle on overcast days.
I'm not able to check accuracy/POI at the same time as velocity, but the load has seemed consistent (around and inch at 100 yds) in a variety of conditions.
I'm just sharing since I was a little surprised how well it did.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,748 |
Thanks. I tried RL16 in 11-14deg temps and it did well
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,092
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 830 |
handy info! thanks for testing and sharing!!
First teach a child to love God, second teach him to love family, third teach him to fish and hunt and by the time he is in his teens no dope dealer under the sun can teach him anything. Cotton Cordell
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,173
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,173 |
Nice 1st post FallGuy - welcome aboard.
It would be interesting to see a comparison of IMR-4350, H-4350 and IMR-4451. I just picked up a 300 WSM and will start working with H4350.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,446 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,446 Likes: 4 |
Nice 1st post FallGuy - welcome aboard.
It would be interesting to see a comparison of IMR-4350, H-4350 and IMR-4451. I just picked up a 300 WSM and will start working with H4350.
what bullet?
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,173
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
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I have some 165 TSX and TTSX's to try.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,173
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,173 |
Actually, I think I'll start with some 155 Skinners - just to see if the used, but like new, Kimber Montana is a shooter. IIRC, it seemed like Tanner killed some good stuff with the Skinners.
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 87
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 87 |
I have worked up a nice load using H4350 and the 165 grain TTSX. Barnes' latest online load data lists a maximum of 69.6 grains of H4350 at 3181fps. That is a few grains more than several other sources I looked at, but I didn't have any issues working up that far. My velocities also tracked right with their data.
I found my sweet spot with this:
68.5 grains H4350
165 grain Barnes TTSX
Fed 215
Winchester brass
COL: 2.860"
They shot a little over 3100 fps and grouped under an inch at 100 yds.
Ironically, I worked up this load partially with the idea that it would be better than the IMR4350 load across a wide temperature range. I should have tested first. I guess I'll try to find a good load with 180 grain Partitions next so that I can play a proper game of Eenie, Meenie, Miney, Moe.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 11 |
FallGuy,
H4350 is normally better across wide temperature ranges than IMR4350, but any powder's temperature resistance is to some degree application specific. I've tested IMR4350 in various cartridges in cold weather and in some it's very good, as you discovered. In my .375 H&H with 300-grain bullets, for instance, it's also good.
But in my .30-06 with 165-grain bullets it's not as good. It doesn't lose all that much velocity from 70 to zero, about 75 fps, but point of impact at 100 yards shifts a couple inches. This obviously wouldn't normally make any difference on big game at 100 yards, but very well might at 300.
But I've also tested H4350 considerably at zero, along with several other Hodgdon Extreme powders, and have yet to find any signficant difference in velocity or point of impact in a wide variety of cartridges and loads. The only problem with H4350, of course, is these days it's often hard to find!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 87
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 87 |
Thanks Mule Deer. I have three of your books, and love them. Your work is what led me to actually test my specific loads rather than guess.
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260 |
I am beginning to think that capacity has a affect on temp stability.
For instance, in my 6.5 Creedmoor velocity dropped about 70 fps when going from 80 degrees to 30 degrees with IMR 4350
In my 7mm rem mag using IMR 4350, my velocity went unchanged and ES fell within acceptable parameters of 7 fps over 10 shots..
So it seems the higher capacity cartridges help with stability mainly I think, because once you get so much of it in a case, it burns so hot it eliminates the temp problem..
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260 |
I also noticed this with RL 17, the 6.5 Creedmoor showed some erratic velocity changes. But my 30-06 showed no extreme changes, to where I had a problem with velocity.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 11 |
FallGuy,
Thanks! Yep, checking sure beats guessing.... :-)
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 11 |
logdog,
Maybe so, but the least amount of velocity change in any cold-test I've done was a .223 Remington with Ramshot TAC. The string fired at zero averaged EXACTLY the same as it did at 70. That had to be pure chance, as chronographing two strings of the same ammo within minutes of each other normally results in a few fps difference--but it still indicated the cold-weather velocity was very close to warm-weather velocity.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,256
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,256 |
20 years ago, whenn I checked IMR4350, IMR4831, H4350 and H4831, in a 30-06AI, the IMR powders showed a fair bit of velcocity loss and increased ES. Maybe Hodgdon has addressed that in more recent times.
I'm always a little leery of chrono velocity operating exposed in cold temps--the crystal is supposedly temp sensitive too!
Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 260 |
logdog,
Maybe so, but the least amount of velocity change in any cold-test I've done was a .223 Remington with Ramshot TAC. The string fired at zero averaged EXACTLY the same as it did at 70. That had to be pure chance, as chronographing two strings of the same ammo within minutes of each other normally results in a few fps difference--but it still indicated the cold-weather velocity was very close to warm-weather velocity. I will definetly remember Ramshot TAC, when looking for 223 powders.. Good info!! When I said "unchanged" I should have specified a little more. I really meant that it didn't change enough to take me out of my node...
Last edited by logdog; 01/10/17.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,098 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,098 Likes: 8 |
FallGuy,
H4350 is normally better across wide temperature ranges than IMR4350, but any powder's temperature resistance is to some degree application specific. I've tested IMR4350 in various cartridges in cold weather and in some it's very good, as you discovered. In my .375 H&H with 300-grain bullets, for instance, it's also good.
But in my .30-06 with 165-grain bullets it's not as good. It doesn't lose all that much velocity from 70 to zero, about 75 fps, but point of impact at 100 yards shifts a couple inches. This obviously wouldn't normally make any difference on big game at 100 yards, but very well might at 300.
But I've also tested H4350 considerably at zero, along with several other Hodgdon Extreme powders, and have yet to find any signficant difference in velocity or point of impact in a wide variety of cartridges and loads. The only problem with H4350, of course, is these days it's often hard to find! That's almost exactly what I found with 30-06 and 165gr. pills with IMR4350. I'm very surprised about the OPS findings. However, we know the 300WSM is said to be extremely efficient. I'm wondering if this is one of the reasons? I'd expect H4350 to get the results the OP posted, not IMR4350...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 11 |
Casey,
Yep, you have to make sure the chronograph is reasonably warm. But it's not difficult, especially with a vehicle nearby.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,143 Likes: 11 |
logdog,
That's exactly what I normally mean, too. I check both velocity and accuracy to see how closely the load performs to its "warm" standards.
Have been doing this kind of testing since the early 1990's, and the .223/TAC load was the only time the velocity was exactly the same!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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