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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
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Nice. Congrats on your purchase.
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
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I've got a little smooth-bore, brass 31 deringer that I bored out to accept 00 buck. With a heaping 22 LR case of Triple Seven it will just bury a buckshot in the bark of an elm tree out back. Mike Cumpston wrote of the pocket 31's 'In the realm of personal combat it is a frail reed indeed'. Hard to imagine today that the little S&W Model One, in 22 short, was in such demand at the outbreak of the civil war that it outstripped the factory's production capabilities. Any old port in a storm, I reckon 
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
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I've got a little smooth-bore, brass 31 deringer that I bored out to accept 00 buck. With a heaping 22 LR case of Triple Seven it will just bury a buckshot in the bark of an elm tree out back. Mike Cumpston wrote of the pocket 31's 'In the realm of personal combat it is a frail reed indeed'. Hard to imagine today that the little S&W Model One, in 22 short, was in such demand at the outbreak of the civil war that it outstripped the factory's production capabilities. Any old port in a storm, I reckon "Back in the day", as many or more people died from infections as they did from actual lead poisonings. Those little balls would cause as much infection as any bigbore. The clothing dragged into wounds (probably filthy clothing, at that) were bound to cause some kind of infections. It's poor policy to get shot with anything, of course, but those little guns could cause a long lingering death as well as anything else. That doesn't fit well with the "one-shot stop" thing we think of today, but you're still dead, whether you take the opponent with you, or not.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,707
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,707 |
It is interesting how things have changed. Wild Bill Hickok used a 1851 Colt Navy .36 black powder gun that had about the same ballistics as the modern .380 cartridge. Wild Bill had a reputation as a deadly pistolero so I'm guessing most of the guys he shot had a hard time shaking off those lead round balls. Wonder when felons got so tough that .38's and 9mm's bounce off them.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,823 Likes: 30
Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,823 Likes: 30 |
It is interesting how things have changed. Wild Bill Hickok used a 1851 Colt Navy .36 black powder gun that had about the same ballistics as the modern .380 cartridge. Wild Bill had a reputation as a deadly pistolero so I'm guessing most of the guys he shot had a hard time shaking off those lead round balls. Wonder when felons got so tough that .38's and 9mm's bounce off them. I wonder that too. Perhaps the lack of stopping power in those rounds is exaggerated. PS Until fairly recently, most of the Western world considered the .32 S&W, S&W Long, and ACP to be appropriate police rounds. US police forces, for the most part, abandoned such weakling rounds by the 1940s, but they continued on in European police forces for many years after WWII.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,823 Likes: 30 |
What makes the difference is a truly determined attacker, either drunk or high on drugs. That's when modern bullet design in accepted serious chamberings (or old-style big-bore lead rounds) comes into play, actually shutting a person down due to rapid blood loss. Likely most people will collapse upon being shot in the chest with a .22 Long Rifle if not highly determined and/or intoxicated.
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,535 Likes: 1 |
The effectiveness of plain old lead RN and SWC ammo is underrated. When I first shoved my nose under the LE tent it was not uncommon to see guys still carrying 38/158/RN. I clearly recall two shootings each with those and 38 wadcutters wherein the shootee was on the ground instantly or within five seconds tops.
I'm all for progress but the old stuff worked better than most people can or want to remember.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2005
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I'm thinking there were some pretty tough hombres back in the wooly old times. Whiskey flowed pretty cheap and that was just the white guys. From what I've read Indians were pretty motivated when they wanted to be and were probably as tough as old boot leather.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2007
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If the Feds don't consider it a gun is it legal to carry into a bar and get wasted in states that prohibit such with a firearm.
That's all I want to know.
Last edited by wisturkeyhunter; 11/06/16.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,823 Likes: 30 |
The effectiveness of plain old lead RN and SWC ammo is underrated. When I first shoved my nose under the LE tent it was not uncommon to see guys still carrying 38/158/RN. I clearly recall two shootings each with those and 38 wadcutters wherein the shootee was on the ground instantly or within five seconds tops.
I'm all for progress but the old stuff worked better than most people can or want to remember. That's about how I figured it, too.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,823 Likes: 30
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,823 Likes: 30 |
If the Feds don't consider it a gun is it legal to carry into a bar and get wasted in states that prohibit such with a firearm.
That's all I want to know. Most states' laws classify them as handguns once loaded up, so handgun laws would then apply to them. Some states even consider them handguns if the owner also owns the materials to make them shoot, even if not loaded up. New York, for example, says they aren't firearms, but they become handguns once the owner also owns the materials to make them fire. At that point, New York requires that they be registered to a licensed gun owner. If you don't own the materials to make them shoot, New York considers them mere collectables, like antique or reproduction swords. Odd inconsistency.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,823 Likes: 30 |
It arrived today. Amazingly tiny. Someone here compared it to a Ruger Beatcat. It's actually a good bit smaller than a Bearcat. Here it is next to my Glock 17. ![[Linked Image]](http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w188/TheRealHawkeye/thumbnail_IMG_0185_zpsaf1r680g.jpg)
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40,179 |
Its kinda cute.  Be fun to shoot a lion with.
Son of a liberal: " What did you do in the War On Terror, Daddy?"
Liberal father: " I fought the Americans, along with all the other liberals."
MOLON LABE
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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If the Feds don't consider it a gun is it legal to carry into a bar and get wasted in states that prohibit such with a firearm.
That's all I want to know. Most states' laws classify them as handguns once loaded up, so handgun laws would then apply to them. Some states even consider them handguns if the owner also owns the materials to make them shoot, even if not loaded up. New York, for example, says they aren't firearms, but they become handguns once the owner also owns the materials to make them fire. At that point, New York requires that they be registered to a licensed gun owner. If you don't own the materials to make them shoot, New York considers them mere collectables, like antique or reproduction swords. Odd inconsistency. I'm pretty sure every state, and the feds classify it as a firearm, but not a regulated firearm. So carrying it, all the same rules apply.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
If the Feds don't consider it a gun is it legal to carry into a bar and get wasted in states that prohibit such with a firearm.
That's all I want to know. Most states' laws classify them as handguns once loaded up, so handgun laws would then apply to them. Some states even consider them handguns if the owner also owns the materials to make them shoot, even if not loaded up. New York, for example, says they aren't firearms, but they become handguns once the owner also owns the materials to make them fire. At that point, New York requires that they be registered to a licensed gun owner. If you don't own the materials to make them shoot, New York considers them mere collectables, like antique or reproduction swords. Odd inconsistency. I'm pretty sure every state, and the feds classify it as a firearm, but not a regulated firearm. So carrying it, all the same rules apply. Don't go messing him up with facts...
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,823 Likes: 30
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,823 Likes: 30 |
I'm pretty sure every state, and the feds classify it as a firearm, but not a regulated firearm. So carrying it, all the same rules apply. The Feds categorize them as "antique firearms," not as "firearms." Those two terms have specific legal differences as far as the Federal Government is concerned, the latter being federally regulated, the former not being federally regulated. According to them, in other words, an "antique firearm" is not a "firearm." That's my understanding on the matter, at any rate. States are all over the place on their classification.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 150
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 150 |
There was a retired DPS Trooper in Palestine Tx who said pretty much the same thing about the 38 RNL. He shot one guy in his career- used that load and killed the guy drt. In his retirement, he carried nothing but a baby browning and was doubly careful not to shoot anybody.
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