Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Mil vs moa and why

The unit of measure you use for distance really doesn't matter

Nice cover-up for the man crush you have on me...

The unit of measure you use for distance really doesn't matter, as long as you have a consistent point of reference. I used to use yards, but because I have tape measures that measure in inches as well as centimeters, I simply switched my RF to meters and print all my dope charts in meters, so that 0.1 Mil at 100 meters would be easily measurable as 1 cm. I design my own 100m targets on my computer, and I use a grid with 1 cm squares for Mil scopes or 1" squares for MOA scopes. That gives a quick point of reference for preliminary group measurement and tracking tests. The ONLY reason that lineal measurements even matter to me is for recording and observing group size. Aside from that, angular measurements are all a guy needs.

For making shot corrections at distance, you need to have a reference "ruler" for measurements. It's impossible for you and your spotter to know exactly what you both are talking about when you spot a miss at 800 yards and say '15" to the left'. Your spotter's estimation of 15" might actually be 20", or your 15" might actually be 10". Absolute, lineal measurements don't work unless you have a point of reference like a grid chart or a yard stick set up at the target. So you need a ruler in order to make sure you and your spotter are on the same page. Whether that reference is in the form of angular increments in your reticle, or a grid chart on your target, you need a common measurement language between you. Obviously it's not practical to have a grid chart that covers your target plus 5' on either side, so even with a 1'x1' grid chart, it's still possible to miss wide and be guessing about the correction needed. The only universal solution is to use a measurement ruler that can be moved on the fly to subtend the angular distance from the target to the POI, and for the units of measurement to be in a common language between you and your spotter. That means you both have reticles with angular increments using either MOA or Mils.

When I decided to switch from MOA to Mils, I had to make a mass migration, as well. It took a while, but I eventually sold off all my MOA scopes and bought the Mil scopes that I wanted (I still have a single MOA scope that is going strong). I bought a spotter eye piece with a Mil reticle, and life is good. Converting from MOA to Mils is a bit of a pain when a shooting buddy has an MOA scope, but it's manageable.

You asked about my process. I measure groups in MOA (because that's a universal language among guys who care about group size), and make shot corrections in Mils. I shoot paper at 100-200m, and rocks and steel for anything beyond that. It's a pretty simple system. It really doesn't matter if you're measuring distance in meters, yards, furlongs, or decimeters- angular measurements are consistent, regardless of the chosen unit of distance.

Bottom line is, you should be giving shot corrections in angular terms, not lineal measurements. Best case is when you and your spotter both have a reticle with angular measurements in the same units of measure, but even if you don't, you can still use terms that are consistent like "hold 1 target width to the right", or "hold on the left edge of the target", or something that is objective rather than being subjective with no point of reference, like trying to estimate inches of correction.

I got a rager.

PM sent.





Weiner

I got a rager.

PM sent.





Weiner

If you shoot past MPBR (and inside it as well) you are doing yourself and whoever is shooting with you a huge disservice not running a ruler in both scope and spotter.

Didn't get a PM.

My heart is broken.

If I miss, I note where the bullet splashed in the reticle. Say .8 mils right and .4 mils high. I hold .8 mils left and .4 mils lower and send another. I still don't understand the reason people feel the need to convert inches to mils.

John

Yeah, that works on just fine paper targets where you can come back to original POA & adjust per what the reticle tells you; not so much on an animal that will move from where it was when you shot as well as the scope moving with the recoil so not really being able to easily see POI.

As for the conversion comment, just intended for people than can't "think" in mils/metric..........obviously you can't be successful trying to make a conversion while trying to aim & shoot.........sorry about the confusion.

MM

This thread is where real life and theories collide, pretty telling.

Yeah, that works on just fine paper targets where you can come back to original POA & adjust per what the reticle tells you; not so much on an animal that will move from where it was when you shot as well as the scope moving with the recoil so not really being able to easily see POI.

As for the conversion comment, just intended for people than can't "think" in mils/metric..........obviously you can't be successful trying to make a conversion while trying to aim & shoot.........sorry about the confusion.

MM

Time heals all wounds.

Said flave to that darn goat.

On weekdays.





Dave

I've killed a whole lot of living things using the reticle in a scope- quite a few were moving. Safe to say I've spotted as many being killed by others.


You have no idea what you are talking about.

Too bad your reading comprehension doesn't match your world class BS.

MM

Yeah, that works on just fine paper targets where you can come back to original POA & adjust per what the reticle tells you; not so much on an animal that will move from where it was when you shot as well as the scope moving with the recoil so not really being able to easily see POI.

As for the conversion comment, just intended for people than can't "think" in mils/metric..........obviously you can't be successful trying to make a conversion while trying to aim & shoot.........sorry about the confusion.

MM

MM,

What scopes with mil based hash marks and mil turrets have you hunted with or shot with at all? How many rounds would you estimate you have shot using said scopes and under what circumstances?

Thanks,

John