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In the early 70s I bought a 25-06. The early 90s, a 7-08. Both were relatively new and weren't flying of the shelves at the time. Both seem to be pretty popular today. I don't have either today, but that's a different story. It seems that there have been a lot of new cartridges come out in the last ten years or so. I wonder how many will last to any extent. It seems the super shorts have gone nowhere Remington shorts about the same. The 338s both short and '06 based, the same. I don't know about a few of the short Winchesters, they will probably hold on. I was impressed with the 260, but bad marketing and the creedmore will probably kill it. I think there is a place for the creedmore, but the 7-08 is popular and might be bought before it. I'm not saying that these don't have merit, I just don't see them becoming very popular. What are your thoughts? Captdavid

I am thinking that since I currently have two 7x64 Brenneke, a 22 Hornet, and a couple of 22lr...I don't care a toss about what someone is attempting to market or sell.

Ditto. In the whole scheme of things it doesn't matter. There's a cartridge for every individual need, chosen by said individuals based on more reasons than there are minutes in the day. Most of the cartridges out there are answers to questions never asked, and that's ok.

There are plenty of cartridges out there, they come up with new ones to keep us spending money. What will gun writers have to write about if there isn't new products.

I think that the failure of USRA was the biggest factor in the failure of the WSSM line, but the early rumors about the 223 and 243 WSSMs being barrel burners didn't help. All of the 223 and 243 WSSM rifle made by Browning and Winchester/USRA had chrome-lined bores, but the rumor mongers didn't let the truth get in the way of their internet rumors. I think that the Winchester 70 and Browning A-Bolt WSSM rifles offered a lot of performance in a compact package.

I've shot a lot of pdogs, along with a few coyotes and whitetails, with the 25 WSSM and like almost everything about the rifles and the cartridge. I do think that Winchester/Olin could have done a better job with the factory ammo bullet options for the 25 WSSM. It might have helped if they had offered standard priced factory ammo with a 75 grain varmint load and a 100 grain deer load. The only standard priced factory ammo that they offered was the 120 grain PEP, as all of the other factory loads, the 110 grain AB and the 85 and 115 grain SBT, were offered in the premium priced lines.

It certainly doesn't help that ammo manufacturers don't offer a modern loading of the 250 Savage . . . and it doesn't help that the barrel makers are stuck on 10-twist barrels, which at modest velocities limit the performance for heavier bullets. For deer-sized game the standard should be 9-twist barrels and more offerings in bullets and ammo for 110-125 grain weights. Can you imagine a 120-125 grain ELD-X? 110-115 grain TTSX? How about 120 grain Accubond? Loaded with modern powders to modern levels, velocities in the 2600-2800 range for these weight bullets are quite achievable. Right now we're pretty much limited to the Sierra and Speer for heavier bullets, while great terminal performers, were created in the early 70's without aerial ballistics as a priority.

You commonly see 8-twist for 6mm barrels
You commonly see 8-twist for 6.5mm barrels
You commonly see 9-twist for 7mm barrels

Why no 9-twist for 257 barrels? You be the judge; I've had to special order my 9-twist from the few barrel makers that will make them.

No, the 25 cal will continue to suffer until someone comes out with a 'new' offering. The 6.5 CM is basically a 250 Sav Ackley Improved with a 30-degree shoulder - maybe if someone comes out with a OEM 250 Sav Ackley Improved with a 9-twist and long-seated chambering, we'll see some traction but until then 257 choices will continue to be bleak.

There are a few things going against any new cartridge today.

One is brass availability. One is quality control regarding both the brass and the rifles themselves.

I can't remember a time when more of the production capacity went to making stuff I had no interest in buying and, when they did accidentally put something on the shelf that looked good, it horribly underperformed when I got it home.

Finally, excess competition. When a company comes up with something new, every other company has to copycat them. For examples, consider the 7mm WSM / 7mm RSAUM and the .300 WSM / .300 RSAUM / .300 RCM. In the .30 caliber group, the WSM will survive, the others have been taken off life support but don't know this breath is their last one yet. Both of the 7mms are dog-dead, failed to launch.

There can even be too much competition between one company's new products. The WSSMs might have survived if there'd been a longer gap between the WSM introduction and their introduction.

IMHO ... of course ...

2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 will be years in favor of buyers not sellers.

Companies should concentrate on tightening belts and hold on tight as gun sales are already flat.

T O M, you make a very valid point. While the 6.5 CM is a marvelous round, it completely overshadows the older 6.5x47 which I feel is the most efficient cartridge ever designed but is strictly a 'custom' proposition still today. Too bad that Lapua did not coordinate with a rifle manufacturer when they first offered it. Obviosly, Hornady did with the Creedmore and now it is a very popular choice for Savage, Ruger, Howa, Cooper, etc.

I guess you'd have to call me a traditionalist, or maybe just an old fart. The newest cartridges I currently have are the 256 Win Mag (1960) and the 444 Marlin (1964).

The range I shoot at is limited to 200 yards. Where I hunt, 300 yards is a really long shot. Most come at 30 to 80 yards. Varmints are covered with .22, .22 mag, 222, 223, 22-250, 25-20, and 256 Win mag. Larger game sees 250 Savage, 30-30, 300 Savage, 308, 30-06, 35 Remington, 9.3 x 62, and the 444.

I'm not opposed to all the new cartridges that have come out in the last ten years or so, but I rarely buy new rifles. I do regret passing on a Remington 700 in 300 Rem Ultra Mag a few years ago. The price was low and it came with a box with 19 unfired cartridges and one fired one. Maybe I'll find a similar deal on one of the big Nosler or Weatherby rounds.

I see it kind of differently now than I did when I was young. What we have is numbers we look at and compare.

So let's look at 7mm, and we could say the same about other calibers.

If I take a 7mm-08 and compare it to a 7x57 Mauser with a full load in a modern rifle the Mauser wins. The comparison between the 7x57 and the 280 the 280 wins ( As does the 284). The comparison between the 280 and the 7mm Mag the mag wins.

So the margin between the 7mm-08 and the 7mm Mag with a 150 grain is about 400 fps. Then the question is, what is the likelihood that I will need to shoot where that margin becomes important? As a north eastern hunter that likelihood is small.

So I have to ask, Why would I spend the money and carry a heavier rifle that kicks a lot more to have the capacity I never expect to see?

If people looked at the criteria, and made logical decisions based on real need, I thing the popularity of these big boys would sharply decrease. In my case my 7x57 and my 30-06 cover everything I might possibly do. Anything else is redundant.

Have a 223 WSSM in a Model 70 FW. Works great and very accurate. Bought a lot of brass when I got it because I figured it wouldn't survive.

When Graf & Son were closing out their Federal 223 and 243 WSSM brass a decade or so ago, I bought thousands of cases so that I would always have cases.

When CDNN was closing out their 25 WSSM ammo a decade or so ago, I bought hundreds of rounds so that I would always have factory ammo.

I wish that I'd had the foresight to buy more Eley and/or Remington 17HM2 ammo when it was being sold for around $3 per box of 50 and more Aguila 5mm Rem Mag when it was widely available.

tedthorn's remark about companies tightening their belt makes more sense than bringing out new cartridges/stuff every year. However, company engineers need something to do, and marketing budgets need to be spent.

If you think about it, there are two major groups that buy outdoor products. Group 1 hunters shoot 30-30/30-06/270, and buy their ammo at Hardware Hank or Wal-Mart. If they reload, they shoot Hornady or Sierra bullets with 4895 or 4350 powder. They are absolutely traditional, and probably don't ever look at the Internet.

Group 2 hunters will buy any new gun/scope/bullet/powder or gadget that comes out, and THESE are the folks the industry marketeers are interested in. They want to shoot game at 1000 yards, and will buy whatever they need to get it done. They spend their time pouring over bullet ballistic coefficients and computer calculations. When you consider what possibly has not already been done to a cartridge shoulder angle/design, internal capacity, length or shape, why keep bringing out new cartridges that may not be around in a few years? Or, how many niches are left that need to be filled with more "new" powders or bullets?

Get the point????

The Creedmoor has already "made it." It will be around for a long time.

tedhorn's comment is the most pertinent. Over the next 4 years, it will be lucky if most of the gun manufacturers are solvent. There are simply too many guns already available in America for them to keep selling many more. Everyone already has what they want.

When sales go flat American business looks for something "New" and "Improved" to market.
Marketing is psychological and not about hunting or target shooting.

Unless you're in a suppressor related business I think.

During the Obama administration more firearms and ammunition have been sold than ever before in history. The stupid SOB accomplished exactly the opposite of what he was trying for. As a result most consumers are well stocked and not in need for a long time, and many are not in need for several lifetimes.



Trystan

As fond as I am of the 7-08 and the 7x57, I grab my 7 Rem mag more often. The difference in our opinions is that you hunt where you hunt, and I hunt here:


(See my son in the middle of the photo, standing over the antelope he shot from the picture is taken?)

Not to mention distance, wind is often a significant factor as well.

Going to have my first 6.5 made at some point in the future, maybe near future...

Have looked at all the offerings for years, and the 6.5x47 still fits what I want. Pretty simple.

But as noted the makers are always going to offer new stuff, its the ONLY way to stay in business as enough folks just HAVE to have the newest and greatest, often just to brag... Pays the bills.

Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with the fact that some of us buy to fit a niche and once that's filled, we don't see the need to have 12 others that are very similar.