Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Question for Mule Deer

Greetings from Texas, John! I have a question that is similar to one I have asked before about "hot" (to put it mildly) loads for the 26 Nosler. I have owned 2, and simply could not get them to shoot accurately shooting min to max book loads. It seems as though everyone I talk to that has an accurate one is shooting approximately 80 grns of Retumbo behind a 140 grn bullet, and are having no pressure issues. How is this possible? I would think that one of these guys would have blown their own head off by now. Do you think it is just a matter of time? Or is there something special about this particular powder/bullet/case combo that makes pressure manageable. Any info would be appreciated.

Edit : I am posting under my father's name. I just forgot to log out and sign in as jackhammer922

I'm not JB, but I have a question: Same set of dies and batch of brass to load for the rifles?

Mathman, I think that they are the same.

I don't load that cartridge, so I can't help with the load aspect. But two different rifles that wouldn't shoot anything, but the "anythings" coming from the same brass and dies may indicate a runout problem.

Just thinking in print.

Not JB, but have shot a couple of 26's.

Get a can of US869 and go with Nosler's loads.

Agree with mathman on runout. A Sinclair run out gauge is worth having as is a TruAngle tool.

Mine and my buds 26's like 140 NAB/NPT and 120 E-Tip/TTSX bullets. With around 90 gr. 869, mine shoots 120 TTSX's, nearly 2" at 400 yds. My bud likes NPT's and his shoots 140's sub inch with a lesser charge of 869.

IMO, powder is critical in an overbore round like this. Like they say, it's not really overbore if you can find slow enough powder. I think that powder is 869.

Some say 20N29 is good, it's just super expensive. To my way of thinking, it would be hard to beat half MOA in a high performance, hunting weight rifle. Not much incentive to pay $250 for an 8# jug of 20N29.

DF

Added to say, I tried Magnum, which is pretty close to Retumbo, have Retumbo and MagPro. Some have tried RL-33 (have it, too) which is slower than the above, still not that impressive. Even yet slower H-50BMG doesn't do much for me, and yes I have a can.

Another less expensive option is WC872, which is a Vulcan pulldown surplus powder available at the link below. It's about identical to US869, which is current mfg., sold by Hodgdon. In my experimenting, 872 and 869 are interchangeable, grain for grain, 872 costing $55 for an 8# jug, 869 over three times that much from Powder Valley.

Jeff Bartlett knows his powders, give him a call. http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html

DF

My Nosler M48 Liberty shoots very well with 140's and 87 grains of US869. It also shoots well with some other loads, especially 82.0 grains of Magnum with 129 ABLR's, but 87.0 869 is the best 140 load, and gets right around 3300 fps in my rifle.

Retumbo didn't work very well in my rifle, but must confess I never tried 80 grains with 140's!

The first thing I suspect when a rifle won't shoot well is the scope, but I ALWAYS load for minimum bullet runout. If you're not checking handloads for run-out, there's no much point in trying different powders and bullets.

You might try RL25. I found it to shoot unbelievable in the 28 Nosler

John, my two 26 nosler rifles didn't like US869 as well as they did retumbo, and they didn't like the latter just a whole lot. And please forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is run-out and how do you test for it? I am a weekend warrior when it comes to loading and shooting, but I know some guys that have loaded for 40+ years, are excellent marksmen, and cannot give me a clear picture when it comes to run-out, how to test for it, or how to clear it up when it is bad. Also, do you think 80 grns of retumbo behind a 140 grn bullet is safe, or is it a recipe destined to at the very least, ruin a rifle?

The reason I ask is because I sold rifle no. 2 that I could not get to shoot to one of my friends, and to make a long story short, the resident 26 nosler guru cooked my friend up a load (78.3 grns retumbo, 143 grn Hornady ELD-X bullet) that shoots lights out. Out of concern for my friend, I have been doing some research on this load, and have found out that a lot of people I know are shooting similar loads with seemingly no pressure issues. This load is about 11 grains over max, and I just need to know if I should be praying for my friend. Any info would be appreciated.

I use 869 with 140 Ballistic tips. It is very accurate.

jackhammer,

"Run-out" is how straight the bullet's seated compared to the body of the case. If the bullet isn't reasonably straight, accuracy will suffer.

The most basic test is to roll a loaded round over a very smooth, flat surface, such as a mirror placed on a table. If you can see the tip of the bullet "wobble," then there's enough run-out to affect accuracy.

The best way, however, is to actually measure run-out with a tool featuring a dial indicator placed against the side of the bullet. The body of the round rests on two V-blocks, and when the round is rolled in the V-blocks the dial indicator will show how straight the bullet's seated.

The usual drill is to place the dial indicator about where the bullet will contact the rifling inside the chamber. Approximately usually .1 inch works well.

Some consider zero run-out (a bullet seated perfectly straight) ideal, but that's hard to accomplish without special dies and case-uniforming tools. Plus, there's enough tolerance in the typical chamber of a hunting rifle that zero run-out won't make any difference in accuracy.

In many hunting rifles a maximum of .005" run-out results in all the accuracy possible, especially with full-length sized cases. (This is also about the maximum where you won't see noticeable wobble when rolling a round across a mirror.) Some hunting rifles will shoot better with a maximum of .003" run-out, especially heavy-barreled varmint rifles with neck-sized brass.

There are a bunch of run-out tools on the market. All work, but some measure other things too.

Forgot to answer about Retumbo. 80 grains is 7 grains more than Nosler's data lists with 120-grain bullets, the heaviest listed with Retumbo, so with 140's pressures would be VERY high in a standard chamber with little throat wear.

But your friends may be shooting rifles with some throat wear, or rifles with longer custom throats. Or they may not....

Thanks for all the replies.

Mule Deer,

This topic got me thinking. I have had 2 308 barrels on a Rem 700 that never shot as well as I would like (different scopes and mounts too). Both were loaded with the same set of Lee dies. Initially full length sized (no longer do this btw), then resized with Lee’s collet die for subsequent loads. Would the firing and then resizing the brass with the collet die correct a run-out issue caused by initially full length sizing with a ‘bad’ die?

I was wondering if a should try ordering a new full length die to try. I don’t have a run-out tool but have tried the mirror trick in the past and didn’t see wobble. Thanks in advance.

Yeah, shooting cases and resizing in a Lee collet die (or any other die designed to result in straighter necks) can straighten brass.

However, another factor that affects both straight necks and accuracy is uneven thickness of brass necks--and even, to a certain extent, uneven thickness of case bodies. If you don't address those at some point, accuracy might not be all it might be. Which is exactly why serious target shooters sort and "uniform" brass as much as possible.

I only do that for a couple of my super-accurate rifles, but even with full-length sized brass in a hunting rifle, sorting brass for reasonably even neck thickness can help considerably.

Of course, it all depends on what level of accuracy you demand. Today many hunters apparently think that 3 shots in 1/2" at 100 yards is necessary to slay deer, even if they never shoot at deer beyond 200-300 yards. (Actually, what many believe is that an occasional 3-shot group in 1/2" is required, since just one 1/2" group makes their .243 or .30-06 a "half-minute rifle.") But that's BS. Any rifle that averages three shots in an inch at 100 yards is plenty for chest-shooting deer beyond 300.

Thank you for replying.

My groups average about ~1.5 MOA; some better, some a little worse but I have to shoot slow for the 3rd shot. I re-barreled the 308 with a #1 Douglas and wish I had gone #2 or #3. I am 2 for 2 on elk with it, but the 'looney' in me still wants that consistent 1 inch group. With the Fixed 4X on it my absolute max is 300, but feel much better keeping shots under 200 and actually these last two elk were shot at under 50 yds.

Rather than another FL die, how about a Redding body die? Combine that with the collet neck die and you can have smooth, easy chambering hunting ammo that is also very straight. I use this combination all the time.

Are you using the basic Lee seating die?

Yes.

It's a possible runout source.