Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots Durability of Handi-Rifles?

Yeah I know the handi rifle thing has been done to death but I got a question....

The concept of an inexpensive break-open, exposed hammer single shot that has functional field accuracy has great appeal to me, probably on account of a Savage 24 .22/20 and an H&R "Topper" 12 gauge were the first guns me and my cousin bought for ourselves as teenagers. In terms of sheer fun for dollar we ain't equalled them yet (12 gauge slugs out of that lighweight shotgun were especially a blast <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />).

Thirty five years later my cousin still has that 12 gauge, still tight although I'll admit it ain't had multi thousand rounds through it. I sold off my Model 24 but since acquired one bought used much like it, now about forty years old, that has served me and my son well for nearly fifteen years now.

Swampman's .30-30 looks just fine to me and on another board, I agree with his choice of a 20 gauge single shot as a suitable all-pupose "bug-out" gun. I find the innate simplicity of this action type appealing, and if that hinge joint precludes bench-rest competion, it also makes for a convenient and consistent take-down point. Crappy triggers? Hey, ALL my guns have bad triggers <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

To make a long-winded post short though my question is this: How do Handi rifle actions hold up under steady use? Are the ones folks are using now likely to still be useable in 2040?

Birdwatcher

Send me one and I will give it a Paradise workout this year...

Depends upon how much you shoot them, right? I've seen a lot of them in pawnshops and on the used gun racks of gunshops and many have sloppy and loose actions. That would suggest to me that perhaps they aren't going to hold up to thousands of heavy loads. I don't know, just a thought about the used ones I've handled.

Swampman1 put up a link in another thread on this forum to here -- http://www.precisionrifleworks.net/forum/index.php In that forum, they are a number of "problems" with the NEF/H&R in regards to frame stretching etc. It is worth a read. If you look, you will find a section devoted to the NEF.

The one I have in 243 is still tight but probably doesn't have more than a couple hundred rounds through it, and a lot of those were light loads to introduce my wife and daughters to centerfire rifle shooting.

My brother has an older handi in 45-70 that he loaded pretty stiff, and that thing is loose enough it almost rattles. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

All 5 of my NEF guns have great triggers. If your's is bad, NEF will give it a triggerjob for free.

The guys on Graybeard Outdoors have run thousands of rounds through theirs without problems. They are fine guns. Unlike most guns, every Handi is proofed. They have an outstanding warranty, and even better customer service. They cost almost nothing. For the price of one #1 you can wear out 5 Handis. The shotguns are less than $100.00 at Walmart. What's not to like? Marlin has really made big improvements in the past couple of years. I'm lining up a hog hunt with my Handi. I want to hammer a big pure bread Russian boar with my .45-70.

Any break open is suscepible to pressure. There a reason that those $10,000 plus English doubles usually are chambered for big cases. Bigh cases mean low pressure. If you stick to suitable cases with lower operating pressures you should be fine - 30-30 is a case in point - a relatively low pressure case ideal for break open guns with a mere 42,000 PSI.

I would stay with cartridges in the sub 45,000 pressure range. Some of the big magnums exceed that figure by 30% (e.d. 300wm, 7mm mag, etc at over 60,000) I wouldn't shoot these in any hinged breech gun.

45-70 is a nice, easy 28,000 as loaded by ammo companies. No problems there

One thing that really hurts these guns is snapping them open hard, and slammimg them closed. The manual warns aginst this practice. This same practice will ruin a double action revolvers.

As I mentioned, if you exceed SAMMI specs you will ruin any gun eventually. I know a fellow that has hunted with his NEF .45-70 over 20 years. He has fired thousands of heavy loads and his is still going strong. I will never exceed SAMMI specs with mine.

One thing that really hurts these guns is snapping them open hard, and slammimg them closed. The manual warns aginst this practice. This same practice will ruin a double action revolvers.

stick with the .30-30 or .45-70, bw; bag an appropriate shotgun barrel, and go on.

Those doubles were also shooting cordite, which is hot, but low-pressure. The big shell, low pressure rounds were about the only choice for dangerous game back in the day.

Cordite is ruinous on barrels, but not so bad in straight cases.

Cordite is really no worse on bbls than double base powders. And it's not low pressure. Cordite generates highter pressure than modern nitrocellulous powders. I shoot big bore doubles, 450/400, 470 NE and occasionally 577 NE. The reason for low pressure was the large case. This is still true if you shoot the big doubles with modern powders. The same loads in smaller cases generate higher pressures.

Remember chemistry? V1P1/T1=V2P2/T2. Any increase in volume makes for a corresponding linear decrease in pressure.

Here's a comparison of cordite vs modern powders. 500 grain bullet from a 470 NE

Kynoch load 75gn cordite 14.0tpsi 2125fps
IMR 4831 105gn 12.1tpsi 2052fps
Mulwex 2213 103gn 12.7tpsi 2147fps

As you can see, cordite generates more pressure with a smaller charge compared to modern propellants.

The general rule of thumb for converting cordite loads to modern powder in large cases is 1 gn of cordite = 1.33 gns 4831. This actually gives a fairly light load. Cordite is more energentic than onventional powders due to the percenbtage of nitroglycerine.

Break action guns wear most at the hinge. To keep them tight, it is a good idea to lube the hinge. Never owned a Handi, but with my shotguns I take them down and clean them after I come in, and put a dab of grease on the hinge when I put them back together. Guns don't become loose from high pressure loads or recoil; those errors give you blown and bulged barrels in the first case, and cracked frames in the second.

I don't have enough good years left to wear out a Handi, assuming proper ammo and maintenance, but Swampman makes a good point. You'll be wanting a new rifle before 2040 anyway, just buy a new one.

But you need to compare cordite to the smokeless powders of the day, not to modern powders.

I read in Cartridges of the World that it was a really hot-burning powder, at comparatively low pressure. Maybe that is incorrect, but I think it's the reason the SMLE pressure rates are much lower than a 98 Mauser. They didn't have to be as strong because the pressure was lower, and the velocity was somewhat comparable, considering the SMLE shot a heavier bullet.

But, I don't claim any knowledge. Of course a larger case is going to have less pressure, and a smaller case mouth combined with hot powder is going to have more cutting power on the chamber. Especially with the metalurgy of the day.

alot of times when you buy cheap,you buy twice.
dennis

In this instance, when you buy expensive, you pay 4 or 5 times the amount for something that's not one speck better.

In this instance, when you buy expensive, you pay 4 or 5 times the amount for something that's not one speck better.

Mark

Define better. Better machining? Better fit and finish? Better wood? Better blue? Better accuracy?

NEF rifles seem to go for around $200-250. Taking the low number, 4 to 5 times is $800-1000. That will buy a Remington LTR - 1/4 MOA accuracy. FN PBR, same. Sorry Swampman, but every measure you can get a better rifle for more money. Can you get a better rfile for the same money? Probably not. But as the Handi is in most cases a 2 MOA rifle, why bother?

BTW, I just bought a CZ-527 in 7.62x39 for $399. True mauser action, Controlled round feed repeater. Beautiful bluing. Single set trigger that is pure delight. Super fit and finish, and nice circassian walnut stock. Shoot about 3/4 MOA. Beats the Handi in every way possible for only about 2x the cost.

I guess I'm lost...I thought we were talking about single shot.

I don't but products that help feed non-Americans if I can help it. In this instance American made is better in every way.

You need to quantify your statements. You also use 'better' but don't specify what you mean. Even looking at something like a #1 at $750 retail, or 3x more, wood, fit and finish, metalwork are all clearly superior to the Handi. The falling block is a stronger action than the hinge gun. Is the Handi more accurate? Guntest, a publication you reference, seems to indicate the handi is a 1-2 MOA gun - about the same as the Number 1.

So in what way is the Handi actually 'better'? Other than being cheaper?

Trigger? Possibly. Ruger's factory trigger is designed to protect against lawsuits. I don't see any other area where the Handi is superior. Or even equal.

The same can be said comparing the High wall And Low wall, which fall into the 4-5x criteria. Are they better tyhan the Handi? Again compare and see. Better accuracy, much better fit and finish, stronger actions.

The Handi is a good value for the money. But it is nowhere near the 'best' single by any stretch of the imagination.

Even H&R/NEF seems to follow the trend with triggers, in terms of pull weight, if this notation on their website means anything:



As for things like "proof" evidence, unlike every other rifle I own, the NEF we have in our home bears no evidence other than the marks that are rolled onto it. Every Ruger, Winchester, Remington, etc. has the proof mark stamped on the barrel in an obviously separate procedure.

Quality goes no further than functional in the Handi. That is, unless you really think very proud wood is 'quality.' I happen to believe the very proud fitting of the wood allows for speed and cost savings which, together with the use of very inexpensive birch means they can sell the gun as cheap as they do and still see quite a profit. The 'lines' on a Handi are simply ugl.......functional.

The Handi Rifle does not have a huge long history as near as I can tell, certainly not back to 1871. That number comes from the date when the company Harrington & Richardson was formed around a break action, shell ejecting revolver. According to the "H&R" website, it was years later when they developed the break action, shell ejecting shotgun and other guns as well. No mention is made of the Handi Rifle. I know, as a lad, it was the shotguns that were their bread and butter in terms of numbers of guns I saw. I know they were making revolvers, but I don't recall that rifles were their forte'. The trend in single shot, break action rifles has not been significant until in recent years.