Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters WSMs, the demise of the M70, the Jamison lawsuit.....

Maybe this has been covered here before. If not, it's something I have wondered and many have speculated about. Did the lawsuit against Winchester (USRA) and their short mags, which, as I understand it, was related to infringements on patents held by Rick Jamison, have anything to do with the decline in product offerings made by USRA?

I may have things really twisted here and, if so, hopefully someone will straighten me out.

..........not looking to point fingers, blame, or other wise bash here, just wondering what facts might be related, if any.

Do a search on Jamison. The thread went on for weeks....

I'm certainly not a patent attorney, but as I understand it, Jamison's patent was for any "short and fat" cartridge developed from a large bodied cartridge (that includes certain ratios of caliber to case capacity and neck length).

If my understanding is correct, this would apply to almost any commercialization of previously wildcatted cartridges. Basically, this is tantamount to Apple Computer�s patent of the developments that were made by Xerox at their Palo Alto, California (PARC) laboratories.

It does not seem fair, but that is the way the law is written.

I once worked for a European industrial manufacturer and they never grasped the complexities and nuances of our laws. I suspect that this was also the case for FN and their decision to pull out of the US manufacturing market (i.e., close Winchester). Sales and profits were stagnant and the lawsuit just nailed the final nail into the Winchester coffin.


Comments?

The Jamison suit didn't ruin Winchester; Belgian bureaucrats counting their Guilders ruined Winchester. Everyone gets sued, and USRAC had the scratch to pay off Jamison and still stay in business but their European owners figured they'd make more money paying FN and Miroku to produce the Winchester designs they own.

If Winchester closing up meant Jamison got nothing; Right on! Jamison fits the term "dickhead" well enough he could wear a condom as a hat. GD

Let's hope that's the case!! If he won and is OWED the money and can't collect, it's justice served... Couldn't happen to a better Richard Cranium.

Geez I'm just waiting for the chinesse to sue.They did invent gunpowder.I think the Jamison lawsuit was a farce period.

PS My dad calls him Rick James now say's he's not worthy of the ison.........

Dude . . . .

A Patent was granted. . . . . . .

Jamison showed Winchester his product. . . . .

Winchester flat stole the idea (probably thought they could beat the Patent).

Jamison enforced his Patent . . . .

Winchester blinked and paid him.

The law means something in the good old U S of A.

But Winchester made a TON OF MONEY on the idea and was forced to share.

Winchester then (stupid times two) brought out the Super SHort Magnums to get around having pay Jamison a little $$.

They spent a ton to re-tool for the new super short action, and no one bought it.

Then they figgered it was better to bring out another bore size and gave us the 325 WSM (stupid times three).

Jamison's settlement is merely a small flea on Winchester's Sacred Cow.

Wichester's management are the person's reponsible for failure to proper feed and care for that cow (crappy quality control, bad marketing, waste of high quality assets like the Model 70, model 94, etc.).

Good shooting,

BMT

BMT,

Exactly.

Steve

It seems like a reasonable explanation for why we got a 25 WSSM instead of a 257 WSM which probably would have sold pretty well.

I would guess that the .25WSM would have been an absolute blockbuster. Remington is apparently missing the same boat by ignoring the .25SAUM. The marketing of today's firearms/ammuntion companies gets curiouser and curiouser. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Perhaps they are too wasting money in NASCAR to notice what Billy-Bob actually wants. Hint: Staying in touch with the shooting public results in positive cash flow. And positive cash flow is a REALLY, REALLY good thing.

Steve

Now Steve . . . .

Please don't tease the disabled people . . . .

Even idiots need a job . . .

Thats why we have managers. . . . (grin)

BMT

Please, please! No more! No more about Jamison and Winchester!

(Rocky thrashes about in agony, face contorted and fingers clenched.)

Please stop! I'll confess; I'll do anything. Just stop! AAARRRRGGGHHHH!

A short 700 in 25 SAUM wold make up a handy dandy deer popper for sure.

Absolutely correct on the demise... It was unbelievable crappy quality control / workmanship here in the US. Just handle any of those awful recent 70's, called the last of the Winchesters. Like that ploy is supposed to get collectors interested in $700 crap!!!

I wonder what the Hell is going on with the whole Patent system these days.

Right now the software industry is up in arms because Microsoft is trying to patent blogging. It did not invent blogging, nor did it even write any blogging software, yet it is trying to patent blogging in order to dominate the industry, and with enough money and lawyers threathening the Patent office it will probably get it's way. It's done it before.

It used to be you couldn't patent ideas, but that seems to be changing.

where you get the idea that recent classics are crap I have no idea... I heard they did not go with the 25 wsm because they had pressure problems during testing so had to shorten the case more. going to the wssm

We already have it. It's called the .250 Savage Improved.

forepaw

Actually, I'm kinda thinkin' that I wish Browning/Winchester/Olin would come out with a 257 WSM. Not that I actually want one. No. Just to hear the usual braying on this forum and others. Some would be very happy to be able to purchase and use this chambering as a factory load. And good for them. And it would stop the whining about how the 257WSM shoulda been brought out instead of the 25WSSM. Then the usual suspects will chime in and condemn the new round because it won't do anything that hasn't been done already with a different round. It doesn't fill a niche. It won't equal a .257 Weatherby. Short action, bah, humbug. You can get the same ballistics with a 25-06AI or some other even more exotic wildcat. It only gets the same velocity that it's case capacity would predict!! And besides, the rifles it comes in are junk. And on and on! Makes for good reading, when I'm bored and have nothing productive to do! For those of you that do actually want a 257WSM, build one! That oughta be easy enough to do with all those WSM actioned rifles languishing on dealer shelves. Have a great day, fellas! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I always wanted a Winchester, and I have been waiting the last 15 years for one that wasn't junk so i could buy it. Then when I heard they were going under, I thought perhaps I should look around for one. Everyone I found was $700 and crappier than I had remembered. Not to mention you cannot find one in a non-WSM/WSSM caliber.