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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,099 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,099 Likes: 8 |
yep, my controls were not up to Campfire standards. I rolled up my vest for a front rest, scrunched down onto the table, pulled the rifle tight into the shoulder and rested both arms parallel with the surface of the L shaped bench, support hand held the rifle just front of the magazine well, watched the cross hairs dance about the 1" orange dot at 100 yards... that is as steady as i could be... so i have an inch of variability right there.
the last sets of five with the 100 grainers were truly randomly dispersed about the shot group, stringing mostly left and right.
I learned four things from this exercise: i need some kit to properly bench a rifle for accuracy testing; the barrel does walk, 80s are more consistent than the 100s, and the rifle is plenty accurate for 100 yard shots on deer. As long as you learned something, that's all that matters.
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,099 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,099 Likes: 8 |
quote: First up was the Hornady 95 SST which put three into 1" but two fliers opened it up to 2.75" Next up were the 100 Federals which scattergunned over 3.75"
This right here would tell you have other problems before barrel heat set in. Bingo...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,099 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,099 Likes: 8 |
If you touch a barrel and your instinct is to pull our hand away then you are above 140 degree's and internally it's hot enough to burn the bore.
I say keep shooting, and sell it when the groups open.
I.e. - too hot to. Touch and you've already done damage. It's good to check that barrel too on occasion. If it's getting too WARM, I will let it cool...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369 |
I'm gonna pick up a front bag to rest the rifle on to add some science to this caper; handload some 95 BTs using Nosler's accuracy load (Rem brass, 210M primers, 2.77" oacl, 42 grains RL19 @ 2856fps) and go back to the range, and this time take my time between shots... what do you recommend between shots?
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,099 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,099 Likes: 8 |
1 minute per shot is a good general rule, but it also depends on temperature. If it's winter time you can shoot more often. Just be sure to put a hand on that barrel and check it for heat. Don't want to get that barrel too warm... I'll often bring 4-5 rifles to the range when I go, so as not to overheat anything... Might as well buy a rear bag along with that front rest/bag as long as you are at the store...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2 |
One thing I like to do with a strictly big game hunting rifle is to shoot 10 shots into a target spaced over 10 days at just one shot a day. I can because I can shoot at home. I think it gives me a good idea of what I can do and what the gun can do on any given day. I think it helps eliminate the good shooting days from the bad shooting days and all issues caused by temperature.
I think it would show you exactly how well a rifle likes a particular load much more so than trying to test out several different loads on a single day. It will eliminate any barrel heating issues or shooter fatigue issues. Have you done it? Does the target look different than on with just 10 rounds fired back to back? If it does, there is something wrong with the gun somewhere. People shoot 3 shot "groups" or "first shot from a cold bore", not because it has any basis in reality, but because they don't like what the group looks like with more then 3 shots. Guns "group" in a cone. They're not laser beams.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
I put the barrel against the web between my middle and ring fingers, if it's hot enough that I feel discomfort, then it's too hot.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2 |
I put the barrel against the web between my middle and ring fingers, if it's hot enough that I feel discomfort, then it's too hot. Too hot for what?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
To keep shooting...........
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,936
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,936 |
I put the barrel against the web between my middle and ring fingers, if it's hot enough that I feel discomfort, then it's too hot. Too hot for what? Putting the the barrel between his middle and ring finger.. duh
You'll shoot your eye out
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,099 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,099 Likes: 8 |
Interesting enough. I'll try that. However, when I put my middle finger on the barrel and it says fu ck you, then I'll know it's way too hot....
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2 |
First 3 round "group"- Second 3 round "group"- Third 3 round "group" All ten rounds- 10 round group shot back to back immeadiately after the above (with a up .1mil and left .1mil adjustment) There's no significant difference between them, but there's a HUGE difference in the size of "3 shot groups" and what the gun will actually do (hit). The barrel was hot enough that water sizzled when splashed on it.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
I put the barrel against the web between my middle and ring fingers, if it's hot enough that I feel discomfort, then it's too hot. Too hot for what? Putting the the barrel between his middle and ring finger.. duh I was gonna say, "to stick the barrel in your ass".
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 32,130 Likes: 1 |
This is why you should only shoot 3 shot groups. Then there's this argument for 18 round groups.
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,086
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19,086 |
I take some of those flexible ice packs with me and set on the barrel between shots until it is cool.Works great in the summer.I have seen darn few barrels that don't open up groups when they get hot
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,044
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,044 |
In my opinion, if a barrel walks when it gets hot, it's time to rebarrel. Bull. Largely depends on purpose of shooting, and bedding. If it is a free floated barrel, and walks after a few, then maybe. If it has a pressure point, then it damned well will walk when it heats- ain't necessarily the barrel's fault. But who in their right mind does this except on the range, maybe? Now, I admit to being contrary- but for me- I really don't give a chit what it does after 3-5 shots. I'm a hunter, not a shooter. If it takes more than 5 shots to down game, I did something wrong. Hell, I can do something wrong with one shot.... Hot barrel problems just ain't in my lexicon... YMMV, and that's OK, too. Guys who are ok with walking barrels are usually fine with dating ugly women too, but I think life's too short for those things. I'm an hunter and a shooter. I've suffered freefloated barrels that walked when hot and won't again.
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that lightening ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,184
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,184 |
Cold and clean 4 more right behind the first. Fired 13 more rounds with about 1 minute between groups and then put the last round hit and dirty right in the pocket. I don't understand this "shift" in impact you all are talking about.
Want To Buy; Form die for a 7mm Mashburn Super. .284 Hornady AMax 162gr. .224 Hornady AMax 75gr. 22-250 bushing die Bushing die that will work with the 7mm Mashburn Super A couple Glock 42 380ACP mags
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
1 minute per shot is a good general rule, but it also depends on temperature. If it's winter time you can shoot more often. Just be sure to put a hand on that barrel and check it for heat. Don't want to get that barrel too warm... I'll often bring 4-5 rifles to the range when I go, so as not to overheat anything... Might as well buy a rear bag along with that front rest/bag as long as you are at the store... Yup, multiple rifles to the range so you always have something to shoot. A .22LR is great because they are hard to heat up. They are really great on hot days when the centerfire barrels take a while to cool. The usual case is I take 3-4 rifles, sometimes 5-6, depending on what I am doing. Often don't shoot all of them but usually most, even if just a couple shots to check zero.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,187
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,187 |
Does the target look different than on with just 10 rounds fired back to back? If it does, there is something wrong with the gun somewhere. What have you found to be the most common 'something' that is wrong when cold vs hot POI is different?
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 Likes: 2 |
What have you found to be the most common 'something' that is wrong when cold vs hot POI is different?
If it's a "cold bore shot" that is off, it is almost always a "cold shooter" error. If it's a gun that is free floated and is stringing or walking as it heats up it's usually an improperly stress relieved barrel and/or bedding. You can also get issues from just slightly too long action and mount screws that start causing havoc as it heats up and expands.
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