Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Public Land PA Bucks/Hunting....

Less fence row cover, MORE birds of prey (stoppage of DDT), more coyotes and more deer means less small game populations.

Know a guy killing 100 plus Rabbits a year with Beagles.
Guy with a Squirrel Dog that pounds them.

Small game hunters in Pa are practically non-existent. Most of them hit the GL for stocked Pheasants. It's all Turkey and Deer for the most part.

It's the Birds that are crashing.

Without trapping of the foxes, coyotes on the upswing and the increased numbers of raptors, the white-footed mouse and chipmunks that carry Lyme should be hurting. Doesn't seem to be the case.

When fur prices hit the [bleep] years back, the predators have rebounded with no apex other than man/cars...they've been wiping out the small game like white on paper.

I want them to do their job and provide a convincing plea to the State Legislature for why the hunting license cost should be increased. Government agencies work with the State all the time to work out budget issues. I have better things to do than to do their work for them.

The PGC has needed a license increase for years. It's getting ridiculous that the Legislature is doing this to them. Now it's costing us part of our Pheasant program which pisses me off. I'd gladly pay more for a license. A basic resident license is just $20. In NC I paid $36 for that privilege.

You obviously don't get it or don't know what is going on. The legislature has been denying a license increase because hunters complain to them they are dissatisfied with the GC. What is their biggest complaint? Well, it is they are not seeing enough Deer. Forget the fact we are shooting bigger horned Bucks. Bigger on average than anytime since I've been Deer hunting. They are also starting to cut back on Doe licenses in areas where too many were killed. But, who kept buying the licenses and doing the killing?
Funny how that worked.

At least twice already you have failed to acknowledge the politics re the Gamelands and natural gas. You think it isn't coming, then tell me why those big right of ways are being bought and piped-up all over the State? Natural gas comes on strong and those GL would be a cash cow to the politicians to dip into. The only problem they have is those rights are presently owned by the GC. Same as the timber rights they use exclusively for GC objectives. And this time it's not funny that you don't get how that works.

Looks like we can't count on you to be a voice for hunting in Pa. That's ok, there are more than a few of you with the same shortsightedness that doesn't allow them to see past today. Tomorrow to you is the same as the next century.


Then again we may get it done and then you can suck on the fruits.

You want a convincing plea to the legislature? When the politicians see free cash, it takes dead babies to have them keep their hands off them. Dead hunters? Dig in boys and get what you can before they stink too bad. Get real with your convincing plea.

Around here it seems like the beaver population is exploding. Five years ago I can think of one or two dams locally. But I can think of 8-9 new ones within 5 miles or so of the farm.

Always interesting to see what they can do. Had them move into a stream outside of Dayton. Watched them expand the operation for a couple years then the place became posted.

Before the posting, I was winter Grouse hunting on what I thought was the stream edge, which was frozen, but it looked different. Barer than it should have been. I was thinking about it when the ice broke and I went in. Threw the gun across to the edge and broke ice till I could stand. The dam had widened since I was there previously.

About a half mile hike to the car in middle 22F. Drove home in my underwear. Didn't break any MV laws either.

Still getting pics of bucks carrying headgear. Havent found a shed in 13hours of looking this year. Hopefully the rest of these bucks drop soon and we can find a few.

Couple of points:
Last year the Senate overwhelmingly passed a Bill to allow the PGC to set its own fees but some Representative in the House wouldn't allow the Bill to move out of committee for a vote, so it died.
Right now Oil and Natural gas prices are low so companies aren't moving the product. They have shut down wells until prices come up. So the PGC isn't getting royalties from shut down wells.
Timber prices are also low so there again the PGC isn't getting enough for the timber.
In the past two years the Governor has cut the number of PGC employees by nearly 80. He took snapshots of each agencies complement and froze it where it was at that day. As a result, positions that were vacant due to retirements aren't getting filled. The Middle Creek crew where I work is now short 2 full-time positions on Food & Cover. Every crew in the Southeast Region is short at least 1 worker. The Environmental Educator that worked with thousands of school kids each year at the Visitor Center has left due to the threats of closing the Visitor Center and he has been replaced by a part-time person.
In regards to pheasants, our baseline for stocking pheasants on cooperative properties is 50 acres of cover not within a Safety Zone. This is not to include crops which could be harvested. At least in Lancaster county, no farms meet that requirement. The changes in farming practices has been detrimental to pheasants. Early cutting of hay kills hens on nests and use of Roundup Ready products and farming from property line to property line have eliminated the cover necessary for pheasants to survive.

Natural Gas is the future. However, for the present it looks like the GC needs additional personnel in the department of convincing pleas.

You probably haven't noticed but farming practices have changed. If you compare the 60's and 70's to now, there is a lot of change. Whit's post above mentions cleaner and bigger fields. I would add more corn/soybean rotations, less with hay and small grains. More corn silage (takes the whole stalk) being cut. The remaining 6 inch stalk doesn't provide much cover and NO food.

Larger faster machines don't allow wildlife to get out of the way. A New Holland model 477 haybine from the 70's cut a swath of hay 7 foot wide and you were lucky to run at 4 mph. Now, there are monsters that cut 30 feet at 10 mph. Combines instead of corn pickers mean less grain left in the fields.

Just a whole host of things, maybe it's not exactly habitat but it's made for less quality and quantity of habitat IMO.

It's certainly not the only factor but I think it's a big one. Jam the remaining small game into a smaller, less suitable area and it gets easier to for the predators.

Dale

As mentioned those are Amish farms and they are still using horses and walking behind the plow. Corn is still big and there and all kinds of edges. Corn stalks piled up in teepees like before. No haybines, etc. Horse and manpower. Or Kidspower when you see a youngster wrestling behind a two-team. Can't ever remember seeing an overweight Amish kid visiting at the hospital. Most of the farms up that way are Amish and they all look the same.

Just an observation, in that the apparent same kind of farming held Birds back then.


They use those machines out in Kansas and the Dakotas and they have Birds. One advantage they do have is the fields are so big the predators have to perch way back on the road edges and perhaps don't have as easy access to Birds. Their winters are also harder on Birds than ours. They do have more CRP land to nest and hide in, so that is definitely a factor. Then there is definitely a lot of "salting" that goes on with the commercial operations.

Even places around here that are managed for Wild Birds can't get them to take. Something else is also going on. However, it takes Wild Birds to throw wild. I doubt you can get it done with pen raised and released Birds.

The Pheasant States have enough birds they can still flourish in spite of predators, weather, etc. They outproduce the losses. Here our Birds may have crashed to numbers so low they can't outproduce the predators and weather.

As an out of stater who hunts western states too I was blown away by the cost of the license... bear tag, fall & spring turkey tags, deer tag and maybe more for $102-ish?

Insane. I think for all that I'd pay close to $100 in Mi as a resident!

Seriously raise your prices AT LEAST on non-residents!

I think Pa has the reciprocating license fee system, so odds are good that MI is good to Pa hunters also.

I have no problem with them raising fees, hopefully it's spent on protecting our public lands and youth hunting education. There are no simple answers to all the complicated problems, the debates will go on for years...just like they have in the past.

But as sportsman we have to stick together to protect our rights and hunting heritage, do nothing and it will be a thing of the past. Be proactive and support your local shooting/sportsman club, take a kid hunting, but do something.

Bwana 1

Times have changed in Pa. I can't remember the politician's name, but maybe 40+ years ago he came out for gun control. Pa hunters came out strong all across the State and voiced their opposition. Republicans, democrats, union members, it didn't matter their other differences, they were in unison as hunters and shooters. He was defeated in the next election cycle.

Even further back when the GC first started Doe Seasons, the majority were against it. They were wrong on the management of Deer, but history tells of them publically burning the Doe tags they bought. They bought them so others couldn't get them and then burned them. They may have been wrong, but you can't fault their commitment.

Today? I wouldn't count on the same outcome. The majority will go down and then wonder how did that happen. Or not even care all that much that it did. Why should they get involved? Let someone else do it.

It's in our best interest that the PGC gets a license increase. The longer this goes on the more programs they'll cut and the less habitat improvement projects they will do.

Not so subtle suggestion, since the GC's convincing plea's don't vote.


http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/findyourlegislator/index.cfm

Those Amish farms may not have changed but what about the English farms around them? 50-100 acres of an Amish farm surrounded by English farms doesn't cut it for habitat. Even if it's a large community, I doubt it makes a large enough habitat block. I think I read that management blocks need to be 20,000 acres to have impact and establish wild pheasants. All 20K doesn't have to be suitable habitat but the block needs to be that big.

Most of my experience with the Amish is in Lancaster and Chester counties. That used to be the heart of Pa. pheasant country. They pull the equipment with horses but have engine carts to provide PTO power to run the haybines, round balers and other equipment. Down there, they take the first cutting of hay by about May 15th and harvest every 30 days. That makes nesting difficult if not impossible.

I agree that there are other factors at play, I just think statewide, the decline of habitat causes those other factors to have increased effect.

The Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) created a LOT of suitable habitat for birds out west. It took marginal and highly erodible farmland out of production and planted it into permanent cover. In other words, the amount of 'good' habitat increased and so did the birds. A few years ago, corn hit $8 bu (it's about 3.50-4.00 now) and everybody planted everything they could to corn. Including much of that CRP ground. I think you'll find that bird numbers have come down also.

My 2 cents,

Dale

I agree, few are willing to commit to their beliefs and take the responsibility for their actions. If they wait long enough someone else will do the dirty work, they just enjoy the ride for free...and if the cards don't fall their way, then they biitch the loudest.

Men used to have balls, integrity used to have value, a man's word and hand shake were all you needed...I'd venture to say influx of video games, destruction of family values, and that little purple bastage Barney are to blame for it all