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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,271
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,271 |
Before he died, I used to correspond with the late African PH George Hoffman, inventor of the 416 Hoffman, which eventually became the 416 Remington. He was a real Texas gentleman!
In our correspondence he told me he'd taken a bit over 50 elk, all with the 270, and that he never found it wanting.
Given the man's experience world-wide, I took him at his word and started "de-magumizing" my own elk hunting arsenal. In the many years since his death, I found his advice to be spot-on and I'm glad I listened.
The 270, like the 308, "kicks a little and kills a lot."
And I'd put the 7-08 in that company as well.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,369 |
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,271
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,271 |
Rifle Nut! BTW, I had one of those abominations many years ago. It's a cartridge for those that can't decide if they want to be a German or an American I'll sink to any level to justify my own choices while ignoring others Besides, if Montana had a standing army all would be equipped with 270's!
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,654
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,654 |
While the 270 will certainly kill elk -dead, I have moved away from my 6.5-06 elk rifle. Where I hunt the grizzly are in full "get fat on" mode during elk season. A rifle shot is like ringing the dinner bell for a grizzly. I now carry a 358 Norma or a 300 Wby for elk, just to have enough to get a grizzly off of me. Until the libtards in DC, and the circuit judges in the west, let the states regulate the griz population, this will remain a problem. Hunting elk in CO, NM, AZ or even KY would be fun with a light weight like a 6.5-06 (270 is too gay for me), but within 100 miles of Yellowstone or Glacier, it is risky.
Some is Good---More is Better----Too Much is Just Right
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,271
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,271 |
All my elk hunting is in grizzly country. Unless you get a CNC shot, whatever you're shooting short of a 375 H&H is not likely to anchor/stop a charging bear. I'm not going to base my rifle choice out of fear, and a good case can be made for having 5 rounds down in a standard rifle than the typical 3 down of a magnum. Also, the lesser muzzle flip of a lighter round like the 270 makes for faster follow-up. Besides, if the thinking is that a 150 Partition from a 270 won't kill our middling sized grizzles, there's a certain bridge over the Hudson River that should be considered for acquisition
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,945
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,945 |
A buddy of mine once shot a bull elk in the snow. It ran a short distance into the timber and died. So did a second bull that he did not see until he found it dead next to his intended target.
He killed two bull elk with a single bullet. He used a 270 with a 150 grain Partition.
Phil Shoemaker once told me that a 270 with a 150 grain Partition was a very effective brown bear killer. He has seen it used a good bit and recommends it to shooters wanting to avoid heavy recoil.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,271
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,271 |
The oldest/largest bull I've ever taken, a grand old 10.5-11.5 year old 6pt, it took with one shot from a 270 with the 150 Partition. It's a good combo.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,098
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,098 |
Yeah, I've never seen a .270 and a 150 Partition "fail" on an elk--or similar-sized African plains game. Haven't seen vast numbers of moose killed, but the "quickest deadest" was the medium-sized Shiras bull my wife killed in 1989, using Jack O'Connor's old load of 58.5 grains of the original mil-surp H4831 and a 150 Partition.
The bull was standing angling away at about 125 yards, and Eileen aimed for the far shoulder. At the shot there wasn't any of the typical moose reaction of "gee, that felt funny, I'll stand around for a while and see how I feel." Instead the bull took a step-and-a-half and folded up dead. We found the Partition in the far shoulder.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Posts: 3,945
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
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My 14 year old son killed his first bull this fall. He used a 270 with 130 grain Hornady Interlocks. Shot him in the lungs and he went maybe 40 yards.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
270 lacking on Grizzly 9mm slays 'em. Go figure
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,098 |
270 lacking on Grizzly 9mm slays 'em. Go figure 9mm on the griz... May have something to do with the trigger man... DF
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,841 |
Given the man's experience world-wide, I took him at his word and started "de-magumizing" my own elk hunting arsenal. In the many years since his death, I found his advice to be spot-on and I'm glad I listened.
The 270, like the 308, "kicks a little and kills a lot."
And I'd put the 7-08 in that company as well.
Agree 100℅. Prior to finding the Campfire in 2003, I was convinced the 338 WM was THE elk answer. At least until I started seeing what guys on the Fire were actually killing them with. Even some dude in Montana had the cajones to actually use a 270 and later a 308. He's some kind of stunt shooter 😁 Then I started killing a few and going to progressively smaller cartridges. Used the aforementioned 270/150 NPT last year on 2. The elk hated it <G> I dreamed up a 30-06 over the winter which was supposed to be my elk killer but every time I pick up my 6.5 lb Kimber 270 and think about where I hunt, I'm reminded how well it worked - and carried. And shot. It's likely going to the elk woods this fall in MT. Bet it works.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Posts: 397
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 397 |
I work with and know a bunch of elk hunters up here in MT including a buddy who has been a professional guide for almost 30 years (and who has a TV show). None of them hunt with a .270 Win. One individual has moved up from .270 Win to 300 WSM in the past couple of years with good results, and despite his claim that he's taken many elk with a .270 Win. Having an elk go 20 yards after being shot can be a problem up here making the difference between an all day recovery or less than an hour. As many know, elk are tough animals so I choose to shoot the biggest bullet I shoot well and that's the advice I'll give anyone. Mass and velocity buys margin so I shoot a 250gr TTSX from a .375 H&H. Magnums require practice and my experience is that most hunters simply don't practice enough, or don't practice at all.
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 312 |
It's shot placement. A large caliber in wrong place, Elk can go 20 yds A Elk dropped on the spot can roll down a mountain a long ways
Last edited by LFD; 03/09/17.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,778 |
MC you are quite right.. Most hunters don't practice at all..
Molon Labe
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Posts: 6,875
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
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Killed my first elk in 1952, with a 44-40 lever gun don't remember how many elk and mule deer I killed with the 44-40 it was kinda like hunting with a bow you had to be close.
As I remember I bought a 270 model 721 around 1958 + or - 150 gr. coreloke worked real well on mule deer and elk, and I didn't have to get as close, only reason I bought a 270 was the guy at the hard ware store said it would shoot faster and flatter than a 30=06 and all my friends had 30-06's.
nothing has changed since 1952 when it comes to killing elk,elk have not gotten any tougher, it does not make a hell of a lot of difference what you shoot them with if you can hunt and shoot. Rio7
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Well I can't say what others have in experience, but I have 41 years of experience with elk, and of those 41 years I have guided 33 myself. I have seen more shot then I can count, and I have shot several myself with various calibers and bullets.
I have used and owned 30-06s 308s 270s 8mms 338-06 338 mags and 375H&Hs. In fact the top of my personal list of kills is held by my 375H&H. But up to a 338 Win mag, I will report what I have seen and done myself, and it goes against the grain of the those that are trying to sell new products and guns. In a nut shell I can say with no hesitation that comparing the 270s to the 7mms (including the magnums,) the 30s (including the magnums) and the 338 magnums, I can't see ANY difference in how fast elk hit the ground, and I mean NONE AT ALL. I have killed and seen killed probably about 35 elk with the 270 Winchesters and a few with the 270 Short Mag and the 270 Weatherby. Shot for shot, if the placement of the bullet are good, and if the bullets are well made (not the ones that blow up) there is NO difference in the speed of dropping and death between a 270 and a 338 Mag on elk. Moose and bison....yes, but not on elk.
I do see a faster result with my 375, but to be 100% honest, it's not that much faster.
How do I explain this?
I don't!
I just report what I personally have seen and done.
Speaking from my own kills I have used 270s 30-06 300 mag, 338-06, 8X57, 338 mag, 375H&H magnums. In handguns I have seen 41 mag and 44 mags used, and I have killed them myself with 44 mags and 454 Casull. I have seen elk killed with C.F. rifles as small 250 Savage (not impressed) up to 458 Winchester.
The ones I can remember as I write this are 250 Sav. 257 Roberts. 25-06 6.5 Swede 6.5-06 270 Winchester (lots of them.....probably 30-35) 270 Weatherby 270 Short Mag. 7X57 280 7MM R. Mag (lots.. probably 30) 7X61 Sharp and heart 7-08 30-30 300 Savage 30-40 Krag 308 Win (Lots....maybe 20) 30-06 (Lots and lots ....probably over 50) 300 H&H 300 Win Mag (Lots....maybe 20) 7.65 Belgian 8X57 325 Winchester. 338-06 338 mag (quite a few, maybe about 15) 348 Win 35 Whelen. 9.3X74R 375H&H (Quite a few..... about15-18) 416 Taylor 416 Rigby 444 Marlin 45-70 458 Winchester. 50-90 Sharps. 50 cal muzzleloader with round balls 50 cal muzzleloader with bullets 54 cal muzzleloader with balls 58 cal muzzleloader with balls 58 Cal uzzleloader with a bullet 62 cal muzzleloader with balls 41 mag 44 mag 454 Casull.
And I probably missed a few on the list that I just don't remember as I sit here.
This may be a boring post, but the point is that I speak from actual experience, not 2nd hand experience, or from reading a magazine somewhere. In the years of hunting them there were seasons when I killed or saw killed only 2-3, and other years we'd bring in 15-20 in one season. I have seen it enough to know that many "salesmen" are simply telling you what they believe to be so, not what they know to be so.
I can tell you with confidence that the 270 with the right bullets is just fine.
Always remember, guns don't kill Shells don't kill. Even bullets don't kill. Bullet HOLES kill. If you put a hole of over 3/4" or larger clear through an elk's vitals it doesn't really matter how that hole gets there. That's why I am a believer in good tough bullets that get through. Use a good bullet and shoot what you like, but learn to shoot it WELL and you'll be just fine
Last edited by szihn; 03/09/17.
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,026
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48,026 |
It's shot placement. A large caliber in wrong place, Elk can go 20 yds A Elk dropped on the spot can roll down a mountain a long ways How do you get them to roll into the back of your pick up after the shot?....
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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MY son was hunting be up the canyon behind his house last fall after their first snow, shot a big dry cow at about 60 yrds with his muzzle loader,she started to slide down the mountain,he ran up and kept kickin her down the mountain and she ended up about 10 yrds from his jeep.he called and told all about it said it was the easyist pack out ever. Rio7
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,735 |
Eastern hunters going out west think they need a magnum - just "because them elk are big". They base that off of the size of deer. Western hunters typically have a more moderate approach and use moderate cartridges. They base that off of walking up to dead elk from a non-magnum rifle. Eventually the eastern hunters realize the western folks are on to something.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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