Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Accuracy issues seeking direction

I've got a new Sako 85 in .270 that I've been struggling with. Originally it would sometimes group under an inch for 4 rounds, other times it would scatter. I releaved several points on the stock where it seemed to be bound. I sent it to Beretta and they produced a target where it grouped 5 shots inside of 3/4", although they really let it sit for the last two shots. My best group ever was 5 rounds inside an inch at 200 yards, although I ran it super hot and dirty that day.

Thinking it might be an overheated barrel, I played with it letting it rest to ambient temp between shots, running hot, 4 shot groups and then letting it rest to ambient temp, cleaning between groups, or reallly dirty. No dice. I've switched scopes and mounts as well. No dice.

I just got the rifle back from an acclaimed smith who steel pillared and glass bedded the rifle in a new McMillan glass stock. The results are consistent 3-4 shot groups under 3/4" with various loads and a flyer to the left about 2". The kicker is the flyer isn't consistent on which shot in the chain produces it.

So, what's next? Crown, barrel, seating depth( currently .010 jump) other?

As background, I have several rifles in other calibers that will consistently shoot under an inch for 5 shots with handloads. I also have a target .308 that will go 10 rounds around 1/2 inch. With the new stock, recoil is very mild, as I wondered if a flinch was causing the issue. Also, it seems odd the flyer is always left about 2".

At this point, I'm open to all ideas. Now bracing for incoming volley. Thanks.

Mule deer, I referenced gun gawk and your other books,but didn't find any other leads. Thanks.

Let me shoot it. Sounds like a loose nut behind the butt...

Are you hunting with the rifle or target shooting?

Hunting. I could live with it like it is if the first three grouped always and the next couple had a flyer, but I'd like to have more confidence in it to 300 yards, self imposed max, than what I'm getting.

May be you haven't worked on load development hard enough.

That was one of the weird things. I was using h4831 at 59.0 grains and 130 Sierra Prohunter for two 5 shot groups. Flyer left 2". Then I was shooting groups with RL26. 58.5 grains up to 60.5 grains and Nosler 150gr. BT. Group sizes for RL 26 varied from 1/2-1.0", but I got a consistent flyer 2" left in each test group.

It's the consistent flyer left that has me puzzled. In 7 groups, always a flyer left about 2".

The run out for all loads was about 0.002-0.0025. I weighed each charge on a 505 scale. The brass and primers were all the same.

I may be asking too much, but I haven't experienced this one before.

Have you tried using another scope to see if that is the problem?

Remove yourself from the equation, if you know someone who is a good shot have them shoot it and see if the flyer occurs.

Sometimes we get what we expect to get - the subconscious is an amazing thing and can create problems that we are unaware of.

drover

Did you arrive at those loads as being the best out of a trial series, or are they ones that you arbitrarily picked?

I would suggest you try three things....

first, get some Berger VLD hunting bullets and follow their online suggestions for finding the jump.

second, get the appropriate Vhitavouri powder for the bullet weight you select {maybe N-160???} and work up a decent load after you figure out the jump.

third, and this is the most common "accuracy" problem with hunting rifles I see today, make certain that you are using a target that EASILY allows you to hold on the exact same aiming point every time you pull the trigger. I don't know how much magnification your scope is or what kind of target you are trying to aim at, but I know this...if you are not able to positively hold on the EXACT same spot on the target each time you are beat before you pull the trigger. Most hunting scopes are not enough power {10X or less???} to easily see this, most hunting type sight in targets are poor to aim at {open round spots????}.

I don't know what they are doing with bullets these days, but I have had good luck with Berger Hunting VLD's and bad luck trying to get groups out of everything else.
Same with the gunpowder, Vhitavouri seems to be the most consistent for me. Some others work okay, but I have consistently had the best results with VV.
Do these things first and see how the rifle shoots before you go doing a bunch of diagnostics. What you are reporting sounds about as good as it gets with Sako 85's...sorry to say, but many people report that the Tikka's shoot better than the much more expensive 85. I would also adjust the trigger as far down as it will safely go. Sako's don't have a bad trigger, but for best groups possible it should be 1 1/2 pounds or less if safely possible. Good luck, better than 3/4" groups out of an 85...you might need it.

Try some H4831 behind 130gr NBT with CCI 200 primers and see what happens.

Yes, crown scope, and mounts should be checked.

Is your ammo straight, or do you have runout in excess of .005?

Another think to try is the simplest bullet possible. A Speer, 130gr Flatbased bullet. Again try it with H4831 and a CCI 200 primer. Don't get fancy, stick to the basics and see what happens. Some guns will shoot a simple flatbased bullet when they don't like anything else.

Or diagnose yourself, it's very easy to develop a little flinch or glitch that comes and goes and you never notice. Seems that it usually comes from trying too hard. Can also come from loosing focus and rushing as in, 'This is hard, let's get it over with quickly." Can't tell long distance but either can fit what you're describing. My usual advice when coaching is before the shot quickly go over form in your head, relax, focus on the target (not the sights) and let the shot happen. You might try being aware of what your trigger hand is doing as you take the shot.

Have seen this technique work many times coaching archery and trap and when my groups get ragged. My theory is the subconscious part of the brain knows how to make the shot if you let it (aka "muscle memory"). The conscious part interferes by focusing on this element of form or that or just plain tension and the subconscious can't do its job. Oh the Zen of it all! Don't know if it will help but worth a try.

Jon

With cold barrel hunting rifles my primary concern is that the first shot from it's cold barrel hit where I aim!

It's very rare that I shoot multiple shots at any game. We do that at our rifle matches where I get sighting shots!

I would not suspect the gun prematurely. I once began load development for my 300 Wby. Was determined to run 165's in it. No powder/bullet combo I tried would produce results. One obscure forum member sent me a p.m. with his load work notes & suggested I move up to 180's with 84.5 gr Imr 7828. First trip to the range put the first two in the same hole. Those two shots were #429 & 430 of load testing.

That load is now my go to load and has been since that day.

A few comments on this thread so far:

Some rifles are possessed by demons. Have run into a few over the years, including a couple that even really good accuracygunsmiths couldn't find any reason for shooting erratically. If a rifle is still throwing fliers after trying all the normal fixes, from the simple stuff like changing scopes to total "accurizing," it may be one of those.

Sometimes the threads in the barrel/action connection aren't quite right, which is why on occasion free-floating the barrel doesn't work, and pressure points do.

I would not keep a rifle that only grouped one particular bullet well, much less one that only responded to one powder/bullet combination--especially a powder that isn't particularly temperature resistant. Chances are it won't always shoot well in varying conditions, or even with another manufacturing lot of bullets or powder.

Diagnosing accuracy problems through descriptions on the Internet is difficult--unless the problem is simple. It doesn't sound like this one is.

Did by any chance the Beretta folks say what ammo they used?

I would also suggest you try Hornady 130gr Spire Points (not boattails). Accurate and cheap.

I had a Sako L-61 in 270. It wouldn't shoot anything but a flat based bullet, and it liked a 150 better than a 130. Have you tried the 140 accubonds? They shoot great in the 270's I have now.

Just shot this one on Sunday. Front sling swivel hit the rest.

Sako 270's like 140 grain bullets....