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Campfire 'Bwana
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Calvin got off in the weed patch, as did Wesley,etal. Too much study of the Bible will lead a man there.
Does it matter if Jesus knows ahead of time who will answer the door when he knocks?
More importantly, SHOULD it matter?
To you? Think of it this way. If God chooses how each person is created. At the time of creation God know if that person will be saved. We are saved or not saved according to how God creates us. Therefore man has no free will. If your God knowingly created people in a manner in which they cannot be saved, and then condemns them to an eternity of torture for the way he chose to create them, than your God is an immoral Prick. So yes, it matters.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 04/22/17.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Jaguartx: I would not argue, plead, or in any way state God's case to this AS dude. I can promise you that the Lord is on his trail and he knows God is real. I have never known an "evangelical" atheist that was sure of his non belief. He will come around if lives a while. Let us pray unceasingly for him, God will do the rest. And then let's give Him the glory. He has handled much harder cases than this.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Take the "ifs" out of your post and what is left?
Nothing.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Jaguartx: I would not argue, plead, or in any way state God's case to this AS dude. I can promise you that the Lord is on his trail and he knows God is real. I have never known an "evangelical" atheist that was sure of his non belief. He will come around if lives a while. Let us pray unceasingly for him, God will do the rest. And then let's give Him the glory. He has handled much harder cases than this. Hastings, If you think he's real, let's see what you got. What do you believe, and why do you believe it?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Take the "ifs" out of your post and what is left?
Nothing. How about we start with an answer to the first proposition. Does your God choose how he makes each individual person, or is it a random process?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Gus, He gives us all the choice. Knock and the door will be opened, seek and you shall find. It isnt up to Him. He made a covenant He cant go back on. He doesnt pick and choose who to save.
We make that choice. You wanna live forever? Believe. How? Ask Him to come into your heart. Ask Him to give you faith. Study His word to show yourself worthy. Then He will open your eyes so you can see.
Dont study to find fault, as some. Study to find truth. Study to find the Word. Study to find Jesus, what He did and why.
Then, turn from sin as much as you can. Become a friend of Him.
Your name will be put in the Book of Life, by YOU.
In the end, that book will be read. Some will be found alive, others will be found dead. You may believe all this, but you have not evidence for any of it.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Amen. My intent was only to show how blind and stiff necked a person can be, which as we see, proves the accuracy of bible prophecy. No normal, intelligent, Openminded person can honestly or legitimately argue successfully against the bibles truths. Luke 6:40 No student is above his teacher. I might add, above his creator. Unfortunately, some have experienced pain and suffering in life, and sometimes at the hands of devils disciples disguised as 'christians' and they turn against God with a vengeance to punish Him for their slight. Unfortunately, unwittingly assisting Satan who was behind their mistreatment in the first place, thereby falling in his snare. Thanks, Hastings, and take care, jag.
Last edited by jaguartx; 04/22/17.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Amen. My intent was only to show how blind and stiff necked a person can be, which as we see, proves the accuracy. No normal, intelligent, Openminded person can honestly or legitimately argue successfully against the bibles truths. Luke 6:40 No student is above his teacher. I might add, above his creator. Unfortunately, some have experienced pain and suffering in life, and sometimes at the hands of devils disciples disguised as 'christians' and they turn against God with a vengeance to punish Him for their slight. Unfortunately, unwittingly assisting Satan who was behind their mistreatment in the first place, thereby falling in his snare. Thanks, Hastings, and take care, jag. You got that backwards: Overall, Zuckerman, Silberman, and Hall conclude that, according to their meta-analysis, there is little doubt a significant negative correlation exists (i.e. people who are more religious score worse on varying measures of intelligence). The correlation is more negative when religiosity measures beliefs rather than behavior. That may be because religious behavior may be used to help someone appear to be part of a group even though they may not believe in the supernatural. https://arstechnica.com/science/201...relation-between-intelligence-and-faith/And here's the analysis of why intelligent people don't need religion, but religion would still serve a purpose for those of the lower side of these measures: The final explanation is that intelligence provides whatever functions religion does for believers. There are four such functions as proposed by Zuckerman, Silberman, and Hall. First, religion provides people a sense of control. This was demonstrated in a series of studies conducted between 2008 and 2010, which showed that threatening volunteers’ sense of personal control increased their belief in God. This may be because people believe that God makes the world more predictable and thus less threatening. Much like believing in God, higher intelligence has been shown to grant people more “self-efficacy,” which is the belief in one’s ability to achieve goals. So, if intelligent people have more control, then perhaps they don’t need religion in the same way that others do. Second, religion provides self-regulation. In a 2009 study, it was shown that religion was associated with better well-being. This was interpreted as an indication that religious people were more disciplined in pursuing goals and deferring small rewards for large ones. Separately, a 2008 meta-analysis noted that intelligent people were less impulsive. Delayed gratification may require better working memory, which intelligent people have. So, just like before, intelligence is acting as a substitute for religion, helping people delay gratification without needing divine interventions. Third, religion provides self-enhancement. A 1997 meta-analysis compared the intrinsically religious, who privately believe in the supernatural, to the extrinsically religious, where people are merely part of a religious group without believing in God. The intrinsically religious felt better about themselves than the general public. Similarly, intelligent people have been shown to have a sense of higher self-worth. Again, intelligence may be providing something that religion does. Last, and possibly the most intriguing, is that religion provides attachment. Religious people often claim to have a personal relationship with God. They use God as an “anchor” when faced with the loss of a loved one or a broken relationship. Turns out intelligent people find their “anchor” in people by building relationships. Studies have found that those who score highly on measures of intelligence are more likely to be married and less likely to get divorced. Thus, intelligent people have less need to seek religion as a substitute for companionship.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 04/22/17.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Regular
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Well, more yada yada.
There is a difference between wisdom and intelligence. A clue here: Wisdom is superior.
Also, you are still faced with a decision about you and Jesus. Your denial of that does not change reality. What you believe about Jesus will not change Him.
Calvinism aside, you still have the choice.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Amen. My intent was only to show how blind and stiff necked a person can be, which as we see, proves the accuracy. No normal, intelligent, Openminded person can honestly or legitimately argue successfully against the bibles truths. Luke 6:40 No student is above his teacher. I might add, above his creator. Unfortunately, some have experienced pain and suffering in life, and sometimes at the hands of devils disciples disguised as 'christians' and they turn against God with a vengeance to punish Him for their slight. Unfortunately, unwittingly assisting Satan who was behind their mistreatment in the first place, thereby falling in his snare. Thanks, Hastings, and take care, jag. You got that backwards: Overall, Zuckerman, Silberman, and Hall conclude that, according to their meta-analysis, there is little doubt a significant negative correlation exists (i.e. people who are more religious score worse on varying measures of intelligence). The correlation is more negative when religiosity measures beliefs rather than behavior. That may be because religious behavior may be used to help someone appear to be part of a group even though they may not believe in the supernatural. https://arstechnica.com/science/201...relation-between-intelligence-and-faith/And here's the analysis of why intelligent people don't need religion, but religion would still serve a purpose for those of the lower side of these measures: The final explanation is that intelligence provides whatever functions religion does for believers. There are four such functions as proposed by Zuckerman, Silberman, and Hall. First, religion provides people a sense of control. This was demonstrated in a series of studies conducted between 2008 and 2010, which showed that threatening volunteers’ sense of personal control increased their belief in God. This may be because people believe that God makes the world more predictable and thus less threatening. Much like believing in God, higher intelligence has been shown to grant people more “self-efficacy,” which is the belief in one’s ability to achieve goals. So, if intelligent people have more control, then perhaps they don’t need religion in the same way that others do. Second, religion provides self-regulation. In a 2009 study, it was shown that religion was associated with better well-being. This was interpreted as an indication that religious people were more disciplined in pursuing goals and deferring small rewards for large ones. Separately, a 2008 meta-analysis noted that intelligent people were less impulsive. Delayed gratification may require better working memory, which intelligent people have. So, just like before, intelligence is acting as a substitute for religion, helping people delay gratification without needing divine interventions. Third, religion provides self-enhancement. A 1997 meta-analysis compared the intrinsically religious, who privately believe in the supernatural, to the extrinsically religious, where people are merely part of a religious group without believing in God. The intrinsically religious felt better about themselves than the general public. Similarly, intelligent people have been shown to have a sense of higher self-worth. Again, intelligence may be providing something that religion does. Last, and possibly the most intriguing, is that religion provides attachment. Religious people often claim to have a personal relationship with God. They use God as an “anchor” when faced with the loss of a loved one or a broken relationship. Turns out intelligent people find their “anchor” in people by building relationships. Studies have found that those who score highly on measures of intelligence are more likely to be married and less likely to get divorced. Thus, intelligent people have less need to seek religion as a substitute for companionship. You belive them, i will believe who made them.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Well, more yada yada.
There is a difference between wisdom and intelligence. A clue here: Wisdom is superior.
Also, you are still faced with a decision about you and Jesus. Your denial of that does not change reality. What you believe about Jesus will not change Him.
Calvinism aside, you still have the choice. Ive seen several who had no fear of death, full of talk, untill it grabbed them by the throat.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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OP
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Take the "ifs" out of your post and what is left?
Nothing. How about we start with an answer to the first proposition. Does your God choose how he makes each individual person, or is it a random process? It doesn't matter to me. If I asked Him, He would likely answer:" What is that to YOU? You just follow me." Fully ninety percent of your fellow humans claim to know something you don't know, namely that there IS a God. It takes a huge ego to not find that troubling.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,283 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Well, more yada yada.
There is a difference between wisdom and intelligence. A clue here: Wisdom is superior.
Also, you are still faced with a decision about you and Jesus. Your denial of that does not change reality. What you believe about Jesus will not change Him.
Calvinism aside, you still have the choice. Ive seen several who had no fear of death, full of talk, untill it grabbed them by the throat. Yep, my father told me: "They won't see the light until they feel the heat."
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,097
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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If your God knowingly created people in a manner in which they cannot be saved, and then condemns them to an eternity of torture for the way he chose to create them, than your God is an immoral Prick.
Sounds like God could entertain himself by pulling the wings off angels, like kids pull the wings off flies...
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Well, more yada yada.
There is a difference between wisdom and intelligence. A clue here: Wisdom is superior.
Also, you are still faced with a decision about you and Jesus. Your denial of that does not change reality. What you believe about Jesus will not change Him.
Calvinism aside, you still have the choice.
What I believe or don't believe about him will not change the fact that he is a fictional character.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5 |
Amen. My intent was only to show how blind and stiff necked a person can be, which as we see, proves the accuracy. No normal, intelligent, Openminded person can honestly or legitimately argue successfully against the bibles truths. Luke 6:40 No student is above his teacher. I might add, above his creator. Unfortunately, some have experienced pain and suffering in life, and sometimes at the hands of devils disciples disguised as 'christians' and they turn against God with a vengeance to punish Him for their slight. Unfortunately, unwittingly assisting Satan who was behind their mistreatment in the first place, thereby falling in his snare. Thanks, Hastings, and take care, jag. You got that backwards: Overall, Zuckerman, Silberman, and Hall conclude that, according to their meta-analysis, there is little doubt a significant negative correlation exists (i.e. people who are more religious score worse on varying measures of intelligence). The correlation is more negative when religiosity measures beliefs rather than behavior. That may be because religious behavior may be used to help someone appear to be part of a group even though they may not believe in the supernatural. https://arstechnica.com/science/201...relation-between-intelligence-and-faith/And here's the analysis of why intelligent people don't need religion, but religion would still serve a purpose for those of the lower side of these measures: The final explanation is that intelligence provides whatever functions religion does for believers. There are four such functions as proposed by Zuckerman, Silberman, and Hall. First, religion provides people a sense of control. This was demonstrated in a series of studies conducted between 2008 and 2010, which showed that threatening volunteers’ sense of personal control increased their belief in God. This may be because people believe that God makes the world more predictable and thus less threatening. Much like believing in God, higher intelligence has been shown to grant people more “self-efficacy,” which is the belief in one’s ability to achieve goals. So, if intelligent people have more control, then perhaps they don’t need religion in the same way that others do. Second, religion provides self-regulation. In a 2009 study, it was shown that religion was associated with better well-being. This was interpreted as an indication that religious people were more disciplined in pursuing goals and deferring small rewards for large ones. Separately, a 2008 meta-analysis noted that intelligent people were less impulsive. Delayed gratification may require better working memory, which intelligent people have. So, just like before, intelligence is acting as a substitute for religion, helping people delay gratification without needing divine interventions. Third, religion provides self-enhancement. A 1997 meta-analysis compared the intrinsically religious, who privately believe in the supernatural, to the extrinsically religious, where people are merely part of a religious group without believing in God. The intrinsically religious felt better about themselves than the general public. Similarly, intelligent people have been shown to have a sense of higher self-worth. Again, intelligence may be providing something that religion does. Last, and possibly the most intriguing, is that religion provides attachment. Religious people often claim to have a personal relationship with God. They use God as an “anchor” when faced with the loss of a loved one or a broken relationship. Turns out intelligent people find their “anchor” in people by building relationships. Studies have found that those who score highly on measures of intelligence are more likely to be married and less likely to get divorced. Thus, intelligent people have less need to seek religion as a substitute for companionship. You belive them, i will believe who made them. You are going to believe their parents?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Outfitter
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There is a difference between wisdom and intelligence. A clue here: Wisdom is superior.
Theres a vast difference between your wisdom and Gods wisdom. 1 Corinthians 1:25 "For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom,.."
God will destroy what wisdom you think you have, but only frustrate your intelligence. 1 Corinthians 1:19 “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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Take the "ifs" out of your post and what is left?
Nothing. How about we start with an answer to the first proposition. Does your God choose how he makes each individual person, or is it a random process? It doesn't matter to me. If I asked Him, He would likely answer:" What is that to YOU? You just follow me." Fully ninety percent of your fellow humans claim to know something you don't know, namely that there IS a God. It takes a huge ego to not find that troubling. You should watch the movie The Big Short sometime. If 90% of the people believe something that is not true, it's good to not agree with them. An your numbers are behind the times. It's closer to 80% now in the U.S. Nones are now the fastest growing religious category and out number Catholics.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5 |
Well, more yada yada.
There is a difference between wisdom and intelligence. A clue here: Wisdom is superior.
Also, you are still faced with a decision about you and Jesus. Your denial of that does not change reality. What you believe about Jesus will not change Him.
Calvinism aside, you still have the choice. Ive seen several who had no fear of death, full of talk, untill it grabbed them by the throat. Yep, my father told me: "They won't see the light until they feel the heat." More with the threats?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,104 Likes: 5 |
If your God knowingly created people in a manner in which they cannot be saved, and then condemns them to an eternity of torture for the way he chose to create them, than your God is an immoral Prick.
Sounds like God could entertain himself by pulling the wings off angels, like kids pull the wings off flies... Or the kind that would take 8 ants from an ant hill, put them in a bottle cap, flood the ant hill, and put the bottle cap on top of the water.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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