Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Bullets for elk?

I am going to give ML a try this year for elk and looking to get some bullets to try. Haven't played with a ML in years and never killed an animal with one so this is a bit new!

I have seen much praise for Barnes MZ and TZ bullets, but damn theyre proud of them at a buck plus a pop.

I'm thinking about trying this hard cast bullet - https://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/details.php?id=65

With a sabot they are about $.50 a pop and I'd shoot them in my 45 colt as well.

Anyone try a similar hardcast bullet in a ML?

Just thinking out loud!

What state are you planning on hunting in?There are different regulations in different states as to what you can use

WA.

I believe both are legal. Will dBl check.

Yep. Both legal. I'm sure either will kill an elk, more curious if a hard cast 330 grain .452 bullet would shoot well in a sabot?

As far as chronicals I like the Lee real bullets. For elk a 54 would be nice. If I was going after elk I might still just use a prb. I'm sure a lot of mtn. men ate elk shot with those things. They pack a pretty good wallop.

These cast at .458 and I size them to .452, they are 312 gr and shoot pretty good in a sabot. They worked excellent on the buck I shot last fall.

An office mate here in Oregon consistently scores on elk using a round ball in a 54. I'd venture anything that fits snugly in the barrel will suffice.

Get u some Powerbeasts, before Trump outlaws Chinese imports.

If you want some real elk whangers I have two pkgs. of 20 of 405 gr copper plated powerbelts I'd sell. I don't know if they make those anymore. PM me if you are interested.

Powerbelts are made in the USA. Idaho.

Rifle type, twist??

CVA Optima. .50 cal with a 26"bbl 1-28" twist.

If I though I had a decent chance to shoot an elk, I wouldn't worry about an extra 50 cents for the bullet.

Agreed. I was more wondering if anyone shoots a similar hardcast bullet with a sabot. And if so, how it worked, which sabot, loads.....It'd be nice to have a cheap load to practice with.

I ordered a bunch of bullets to try including some of the Barnes MZ. When everything hits my doorstep I'll give it a go and see what does what.

Thanks!

MadMooner,

I developed a load just for elk back in 2015 for my TC Pro Hunter.

I shot 4 different projectiles:

1. Hornady 300gr Flat point .458 cal in a MMI orange Sabot and Blackhorn 209
2. Hornady 350gr RN .458 cal in a MMI orange Sabot and Blackhorn 209
3. Speer 350gr Hotcore in .458 in a MMI orange Sabot and Blackhorn 209
4. Kodiak 350 gr RN in .458 cal in a MMI orange Sabot and Blackhorn 209

I used the Hornady's to dial in the load and settled on 83.5 grains of BH209 ( measured by weight on RCBS scale). I never chrono'd but I am pretty close to 1900 fps as the trajectory matches my 45/70 load with same bullets shot over chrono and recorded.

I dialed her in to be dead on at 100 yards, then moved back to 200 and shot from there 75% of the time. The drop was 9 inches at 200 yards. I was using a ballistics reticle and matched u which has mark ( happened to be the second one down from true crosshair. Groups at 200 were 5 inches. Plenty small enough to kill a bull elk at that distance.

Kodiaks grouped the best, Speers flew the flattest ( about 1 inch flatter), Hornadys matched Kodiaks trajectory, and groups around 7 inches. My scope is a 2.5x7x35 Burris.

I used the Kodiaks on the elk hunt and took a bull at 40 yards on the second day of the hunt, as he stood looking at me. The bullet never exited, and he had a golf ball sized hole in his sternum. I went gutless for the bone out of the meat so I never found the bullet, but I accidentally poked a hole in the lower abdomen and it literally bled thick chunky blood for the better part of 5 minutes. I can't imagine what that bullet did to the inner clockworks of that bull. From impact to where were he fell was 40 yards.

Fast forward to this fall and I used the same load, Speer Hotcores this time, to take a mature whitetail doe here in Missouri. Golf ball sized hole in and out ( broadside shot at 45 yards) and the internal damage was massive. My 9 year old daughter was with me and she had never blood trailed anything in her life and she found the deer without any problem. 30 yard death run.

I would not hesitate to use this recipe for elk again. The Kodiaks are a premium bullet made to withstand tough hide and bone. The Speers are no slouch either. They hold together well. The Hornady's are bad either and in a pinch would not feel undergunned with them.

This was a fun experiment for me. I got to shoot my Encore alot and had a lot of fun doing it.

If I wasn't gonna shoot the 290 gr Barnes tipped bullets in a crush rib sabot over 150 grs of Triple 7, I'd shoot the 495 gr No Excuses bullet over 120 gr Triple 7, they load very easy, even with a fouled bore, and are extremely accurate.

Your CVA shoots sabots best.
Use a 50/45 Hornady XTP in 300gr with a Harvester sabot. It's put down plenty of elk. You never mentioned what powder you use. So I'm guessing try the XTP with around 100gr. Use +5 to 10gr (or) minus 5-10gr, to tweak the load.

Thanks for the replies.

Rifle just arrived today, Other order of bullets is held up on a back order. Going to stop at Sportsmans Warehouse and get a few things to play with tomorrow!

Powder -I picked up a pound of 777 to try. RWS 1081 caps.

I've been "working" with a CVA 50 caliber "pistol" - 14" barrel. Got a bunch of 320 gr and 360 gr hardcast .45's that are a little heavy for my .45 Colt loads, so I want to use them in the CVA. With 100 gr Triple Seven (2 50 gr pellets) I chronoed 1378 fps. I'm not elk hunting, but figure this load should whallop a hog!

Mike

you can never go wring with a 308

Except when it's muzzleloader season.......

In any rifle of 54 caliber of larger bore I see no advantage in using sub caliber bullets fitted to a sabot over just using a ball.

In 50 cal you have a 180 gr round ball (+or- a few grains) So a 230 to 300 grain bullet fired through it might have some advantage at least in theory.

In a 54 cal you have a ball of about 230 grains.
In a 58 cal you have a ball of about 270 gr.
A 62 fires a ball of about 325 grains.
A 66 fires a 1 oz (437gr) ball. All of these shoot accurately at about 1800 FPS, to a max of about 1900 FPS.

It's false that bullets are more accurate. If you doubt this look at the records set at Friendship for 100 yard flintlock groups.

It is true that bullets will fly a bit fatter if the same velocity can be attained, but getting a 300 grain bullet up to 1800 FPS takes a lot of powder. But you still have to start holding elevation past your zero range. So if you can hold higher, you can hold higher. If you can't hold a good still gun, a flatter shooting bullet is of no value.

I make them for a living so I do know something about the subject. I have 3 bullet rifles int he works right now as I write this. They have been around since before our civil war and there is really nothing new (other than salesmanship.)

I reject the idea that any muzzleloader shoots flat. "Flat" is a bit of a misnomer. Flatter yes, but not flat.

The very best of them shoot in a trajectory about like a 30-30 out to 200 yards. Most are not even that flat with accurate loads.

If you want to hunt with a muzzleloader there can be only 2 reasons.

Reason #1 is the good reason; You want the extra challenge. That means you accept the range limitations and the fact that you get one chance only.

Reason #2 is that you want to find a way to cheat the majority of other hunters. The folks in the gun business are super willing to feed you the lie that their "super modern muzzleloader" is the answer. "You can have a modern long range flat shooting gun and hunt in a season with far less competition" is what they are selling, and like libs and dems, thye are lying to you. But feel no guilt because they know they are actually selling to those that want to cheat anyway. Cheating a cheater is the norm today unfortunately.

I like the old fashioned guns but it's not a religion to me. If you like modern stainless guns with plastic stocks and scopes, use them. But learn to use them well and go back to "reason #1". Reject Reason #2 as a lie, Because it IS a lie.

Accept the challenge of being a better hunter and the tool you use is not that important. If you want to kill elk use a projectile that will penetrate at least 28" deep and learn to use it well.

Back to the original poster with a .50cal, 1-28twist, inline.

I shot a bunch of .452 hard cast pistol bullets (250grn RNFP) with MMP sabots in the Knight .50 and the Savage MLII .50, they shot great.

They also recoil a bit less than some of the heavier conicals I've tried.

I can't muzzleloader hunt here in Co. with sabots or a scope but I like to shoot and I like to see if I have some options.

When I use the muzzleloader for elk again I'll be using a Federal Bor-lock or Thor conical.

Your 330grn WFN should work perfectly.

Good luck with your hunt!

I like reason #3. In Colorado I can draw a muzzle loader tag and then by an OTC rifle elk tag,giving me two elk hunts per year. I have three muzzle loaders of different styles,so I change up whenever I feel like doing something different

"I like reason #3. In Colorado I can draw a muzzle loader tag and then by an OTC rifle elk tag,giving me two elk hunts per year. I have three muzzle loaders of different styles,so I change up whenever I feel like doing something different"

Oh now that's cool!
I would maybe go for Reason #3 too.
I have never heard of that anywhere else.

I'm solidly in the #2 camp.

Happy to hunt in a season that offers less pressure, better areas, and better dates.

In Co,there are "A", "B", and "C" tags. You can have one "A" tag and a "B" tag or two "B" tags. "C" tags are crop damage, special tags l, and some private land owner tags. No limit in them. The "A" tags are draw, and usually OTC bull tags.Most"B" tags are cow tags. But that is ok, I like to eat cows better

L like reason # 4, to hunt elk during the rut with a firearm. Or reason #5, to hunt the Colorado mountains in September, rather than October or November.

Yea, those warmer seasons are getting to be a lot more enjoyable to me.Except for the rain

Anything but a powerbelt

Ive shot antelope and deer with the 50 cal round ball. I wiuld never hunt elk with it. TC maxi or Powerbelt for me for them in 50 cal. Not saying a RB through the ribs broadside wont do it, but i never got the primo shot with rifle, ml, or bow.

I do prefer the Blackhorn powder.

Why?

Apparently they've acquired the reputation of not holding together or "pancaking". No idea if it is deserved or not.

For me, the main reason to use a muzzle loader is simply more enjoyment of the sport I love. The extra legal hunting time is nice, but in Texas, it comes AFTER both archery and general firearms season. There may be less competition, but the game is likely to be somewhat "shell-shocked" and maybe more wary. Just the fact that we have enough deer now to allow these "special seasons" is something to celebrate. I have always done much of my hunting with single shots, and really enjoy the in line muzzle loading systems - although I admit to myself that they seem to have evolved as a way to get an edge in a supposedly "primitive weapons" season. Has nothing really to do with perceived "traditions" - I get no thrill from playing Daniel Boone, though I do not begrudge those who do.

Mike

Mainly among those who've never shot an elk with them, like bigblock.

The 295 powerbelts shoot nice out of my tc. Im gonna try em on a deer or hog hopefully this year along with maybe some great plains bullets. I heard the PB dont like to be pushed too fast.

That's true. And if you use them for elk I'd recommend the 348s or larger.

They act like any other projectile made out of pure lead. Just like pushing a cup and core bullet over 3000fps out of a center fire rifle and expecting it to hold together at 50 yards

Here's one that went thru an elk ending up under the hide on the far side, 90 gr FFG black powder, 295 gr Power belt.I have since stepped up to the 348 gr however.



Here is the elk. That bump on the hide just behind the ribs is that bullet. Entered just behind the shoulder , quartering rearward thru liver.

I shoot'em with Round Balls. They don't fall apart.

How many elk have you shot with powerbelts, and had them fall apart?

I don't expect an answer, it's just a rhetorical question so that anyone reading this can judge the value of your opinion.

I shot a bull broadside with a 348 grain powerbelt at 105 yards. Was using 110 grains of 777 if I recall that detail correctly. He took off dragging his onside leg so I unfortunately got too close to the shoulder. Waited a bit and walked down to where he was. Saw 2 piles of frothy pink lung blood, literally 2-3" tall and filled with air bubbles. So I know very definitely I got one lung. I searched for 1.5 days for that bull and never recovered him. It is the only elk I ever lost and still pisses me off. I'll take closer shots with a roundball or about 100 yard max with heavy solid nose conicals from now on.

Not saying that many haven't had excellent luck with them, but I've killed every other elk shot with 370 grain maxiballs and am going back to them. If I hadn't caught shoulder, I am sure he would have died quickly. Still a bummer.

Yep, a one lung hit elk can go far.That is why you hear so many guys say they shoulder shoot because lung shots don't put them down.When in truth it's the shooter not doing his job. No inference to 30338 here

Ive never lined up an elk in my sights must less ever shot at one, so take this with grain of salt. Ive noticed with whitetails that i like bullets that hold together, partitions, barnes etc. As a youngun, i was told to aim right behind the shoulder and id hit lungs, heart etc. With cheap old bullets id put em in the boiler room and they would always run off. So i shot a few in the shoulder, the bullets would blow the shoulder apart and deer would run off limping. Bullets would be tore all to pieces. I started shooting premium bullets and putting it high shoulder and they drop in their tracks. Havent recovered a bullet yet and you can almost eat up to the hole. If I ever get the chance to hunt an elk, you can bet your ass Im going with something I know will penetrate. After shooting big bores with big heavy slow bullets, ive realized that you dont need that whiz bang magnum to kill stuff, those big bullets put em in the dirt and dont blow em all to pieces in the process. Im far from an expert and just starting reloading and experimenting. From what ive read, if I was going after an elk, id try a hard cast conical of some sort or one of those barnes sabots.

Bull was perfectly broadside. A hard cast conical would, in that instance and in my opinion, have put meat in the freezer. One lung won't do it.

Both are good choices, unless you're hunting CO. No sabots allowed during the ML season.

I thought bb455 was a powerbelt advocate.?

I'm the camera man, My dad is the hunter/shooter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ADcThW6pD4&t=5s

I've taken several elk (including a large bull) and a bull moose with 325 grain .54 cal lead Powerbelts. Only 80 grains of Pyrodex for extra tight groups and no problem bringing down the game. I may switch to rounball and real black when I run out of them. Caplock Hawken.

Plumdog millionaire?

Ha! Not hardly....can't even afford horses. Always public land DIY. Powerbelts and a wall tent my only luxuries.

You know the movie, right?

I haven't seen it so I didn't get it...! Gonna see if it's at Redbox

Worth checking out.

Here's a bull moose taken here in CO with my TC .50 ML, using a 348 gr. Powerbelt. Hit in the shoulder, bullet passed thru the far side. Moose took 2 steps and fell over.

If I were hunting elk , and I only had one shot , I would call Hawk Bullets in Salem New Jersey. Talk to the owner , explain what you want to do and ask for a recommendation of the Bullets he makes.

I did just that for a Bear hunt in Newfoundland, shot a 500 lb bear , he ran about 45 yards and was DOA . I was using a Knight disc rifle at the time . Tried a few different bullets to get the right load.

Good luck,

Soup

If I were hunting elk, I'd use the same bullet I always have, the 348 grain PB:

Has anyone used the Federal Bor Lock on elk? I need to find a good solid bullet to shoot out of my Encore for Colorado elk. Looks like Federal only offer two choices. Any input on other options are also appreciated.

RDD, check out www.thorbullets.com

I did look up the Thor bullets and read several reviews on them. From what I read they should work for elk. I didn't ever see anyone mention if they are hard to load for a follow up shot. I use Blackhorn powder in my muzzleloader. What weight of Thor would you or have you used on elk?

No they are not hard to load on a following shot, especially with bh209.

I use the 250gr version personally. They offer a 300gr version and this year, a new one size fits all thor bullet.

How have those 250's worked on elk for you?

I use round balls for elk. Used to use 224 grain balls but am now shooting a .50cal so I'll be testing a 177-178 grain ball this year with any luck.

We harvested 3 large mule bucks this year with 250 grain .452 in sabots over 120 grains BH209. 2 Bullets were Shockwave cored and 1 Hornady sst. All 3 entered at a thumb holesize and exited at 4 knuckle wide complete pass through and gone.

1 entered left shoulder humerus bone shattered it took out both lungs and out taking about 3 ribs. Shot at 50 yards morning.
1 entered right shoulder humerus bone shattered turned up through lungs and out the left spine obliterating it. Shot at 100 yards that evening.
Mine entered left side through triceps took both lungs and hit the humerus bone on the way out. Shot same time in evening 100 yards.

Again, all ram through shots, no bullet found. Thumb knuckle hole size in and 4 knuckle wide TO MY PALM wide out. Didn't matter if multiple bones where in the way or not. Not one mule deer made even so much of a step, it was like they got hit by by a truck!

The hemorrhaged tissue was massive, to the point I felt sorry for them . Now i know this is an elk thread, but those mule deer were large. With that kind of damage I would think they would take an elk easily, but I would step them up to at least 300 grains just for good measure.

So you were not hunting in Colorado and those are not elk?