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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,092
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,092 |
OK then, only 20 lashes with a wet noodle. 
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
My bad, #2. Had a 1, 2, 4, and 6. Got confused. That's better,..... A SUPERB choice !
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,872
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,872 |
I always thought something like the old .25 Stevens with a CF primer would be the diggity for small stuff. But I may be prejudiced. Grand dad used one to kill hogs when I was 8 or 9 and some of his hogs ran over 500 pounds. Made quite an impression on a young kid.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
A Stevens 44, in .25-20  ![[Linked Image]](http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww127/tex_n_cal/stevens_zps467d6281.jpg) reminds me I need to revisit load development with it
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,092
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,092 |
Have one of those in .25-20 SS that is a fair shooter, but all I've done with it is BP loads on the 100 yard line. Offhand. Good for about 8" groups of 10. I enjoy it and consider relining the barrel with the same chamber. Dunno I'd say I haven't looked at it in context of the discussion at hand.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,092
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,092 |
From one day to the next I live with certainty that few original thoughts exist these days, and sure enough this road has already been paved. Meet the .220 Rook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.220_Rook
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,081
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,081 |
There's a couple bricks of them at the LGS. Want me to grab them for you? Boxes are a tad time worn, but the ammo should clean up ok.
The last original thought occurred in June, 1972, in an inflatable in the middle of the Niagara River.
Last edited by gnoahhh; 05/10/17.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 995
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 995 |
if you want change you have to put in your 2 cents, you can't just sit on the sidelines and whine
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,349 |
That 44 is ugly.
You want my #2, let's trade.
The 25 Stevens deserves to live again, or a 25 -17WSM.
I am the NorthEast WoodsBeast!
"System version 1.3, divorced"
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,697 |
Dan, Upon reading up on the Velo Dog yesterday I also came across the .221 Askins. That's even closer to what you are looking for then the Velo Dog, but considering it's based on the VD case it would be even more work/rare. The .221 Askins is the VD case cut down and the rim filed down to match the .22lr profile, but a CF cartridge... All the work of obtaining and then modifying cases (not to mention the firearm) would undoubtedly negate any cost saving in making a CF .22lr... But it is kind of neat. http://www.bullseyepistol.com/askins.htm
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
― Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
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I think the 38 special comes closest as a replacement. 3-4 gr of fast to medium fast powder under a 100-150 gr cast bullet makes for an outstanding small game load. Once fired brass is dirt cheap and plentiful and plenty of good molds available. Yes, more labor than just buying a box of 22's and takes up more room in your pocket, but it's a good option when you're looking for options. Worked for me in a Winchester 1892 rebored to .357 .....
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Joined: May 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,092 |
Azar, thanks for that. Had not heard of that variant of the old V-D. Obviously a game changer. Were I to stumble across an ample supply of Dog cases I'd roll with that. Anyone have any idea what a limited production run might cost and who would do it?
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,697
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,697 |
Quality Cartridge made Velo Dog brass a few years back. They don't currently list it at all though.
“There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.”
― Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,092
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,092 |
Thanks again, have phone, will call.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,924
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,924 |
Each time I think of what I want next for a plinker I look over at the Marlin 1894 357 Mag and smile. Brass is everywhere and cheap. Powder is everywhere and at 5gr drops is cheap. Lead bullets are everywhere and 158's are cheap. Less than 12 cents per shot and I'm not melting lead. Oh yea.
All American
All the time
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Revisiting an idea tried before in different iterations and looking for thoughts. In days past there have been several straightwall .22 CF cartridges, the most recent failure being the Cooper .22 CCM. They were in circulation and competing with an abundant supply of cheap RF ammo and fell by the wayside.
We have been on the wrong side of the price/supply equation for some years now and I ponder the viability of pursuing the idea once again. Rather than trying to recreate the Cooper round I'm thinking that the target for performance should or might be the .22 LR at the standard velocity range with 40-45 grain cast or jacketed .224" bullets, something that would be suitable for the handloading crowd.
Some of the numbers I ponder:
Depending on a few variables, 3,500 - 7,000 loads from a pound of powder. Assuming $25/# we are left with about .35-.71 cents/round.
Assuming $2/# for lead, the cost per bullet is 1.15 cents per round.
Primers will cost about 3 cents each at current prices.
Total cost per round, excluding brass is about 4.85 cents per round. I figure brass life to be very long due to low pressures and on assumption of compatibility of die/brass dims. Lighter bullets or round balls might be driven with only a primer, thus presenting some additional cost reductionns.
Thoughts?
Don't be bashful, I can take a jab or two. Dan, there really isn't any viable competitor for the 22lr niche, that said a 22 hornet as a pair for the 22lr will pretty much cover whatever you are attempting to do...just don't bother chasing velocity with it like most do. Top rifle is a Brno ZKW 465 in 22 Hornet, bottom is a 1958 Brno model 5 in 22lr...pretty much covers what I want without chasing my tail. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1379.photobucket.com/albums/ah139/Hayst2711/20160215_211437_011_zpsumncrx2h.jpg)
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Of course, if the object is to chase your tail then a Martini Cadet in a 357 necked down to 224 would be a lot of fun...whole bucket loads in fact.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,321 |
Each time I think of what I want next for a plinker I look over at the Marlin 1894 357 Mag and smile. Brass is everywhere and cheap. Powder is everywhere and at 5gr drops is cheap. Lead bullets are everywhere and 158's are cheap. Less than 12 cents per shot and I'm not melting lead. Oh yea.
+1 That was a project of mine last summer, only I was doing the cast lead thing as well. The cool thing is that I can carry a handful of lead 125's for plinking and keep a few of my green powder-coated 158 grainers handy loaded with H110 and start knocking on 30-30 levels.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Posts: 10,924 |
Not to mention the fun factor! And kids love it
All American
All the time
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,081
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,081 |
As much fun as a .38 or .357 is when shooting plinker loads in a rifle, if searching for a .22 substitute those cartridges miss the point. Consumption of three times the powder and three times the amount of lead per shot is not a substitute (save perhaps in terms of the fun quotient). The closest we can get to Dan's request for a solution, in a current factory cartridge, is the .22 Hornet shooting home cast bullets over a pinch of pistol powder. Replacing cast bullets with jacketed stuff or store bought cast stuff in the Hornet defeats the purpose by increasing costs dramatically (relatively speaking).
By doing everything yourself (casting, loading, etc.), using scrounged lead that is free or virtually so, one can equal or beat the cost of average .22RF ammo-- the wrench in the works is the time spent doing it. If one views that as a hobby and treats it as one would any other handloading venture/experiment in chasing pure accuracy it makes total sense. If one's goal is to prepare plinking ammo for blasting tin cans, golf balls, rocks, and pine cones at 50 feet (wherein I bet 70% of RF ammo gets wasted in this country) then it's a losing proposition- save your time and buy a brick of Walmart .22's.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
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