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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
So we're talking about a relatively small number of people. Also, most states have laws that prevent insurance companies from dropping you unless you fail to pay your premium or lied on your application form. There are lots of horror stories out there about insurance companies dropping people but most are bogus if you actually know all the details. The purpose of insurance is to spread big risks to a few out over the population. Not many people need their fire policy on their house, but if you NEED it, boy, howdy, do you need it. Not many people with young families NEED their life insurance, but if you DO, by George, you NEED it. Not many people ever use their CCW weapon, but if you need it...... you need if very badly. See where I am going? Same with health insurance. The vast majority don't need it, but if you DO, you need it, oh, boy, do you NEED it. Again, that is the PURPOSE of insurance, to spread big risks to a shared pool. Excluding that high risk segment of the population defeats the entire purpose of insurance to begin with. The purpose of insurance is not to cover your annual physical or your colonoscopy. It's to keep you from going bankrupt due to a blood clot, heart attack or cancer event. Very compelling. Are we talking about insurance or mandated socialized medicine? One is a capitalistic venture, the other is welfare. They have NOTHING in common other than the commodity.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,426
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,426 |
His "point" is socialism, like about half of these so-called "conservatives" here at the 'fire want. It's a natural course for stupid people to take. Funny how high you consider your own intellect.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
His "point" is socialism, like about half of these so-called "conservatives" here at the 'fire want. It's a natural course for stupid people to take. Funny how high you consider your own intellect. Point taken. Maybe socialism will work better this time. Good luck.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,368 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,368 Likes: 2 |
His "point" is socialism, like about half of these so-called "conservatives" here at the 'fire want. It's a natural course for stupid people to take. When are you going to acknowledge that we have and have had socialism and socialized medicine for 50 years? This is not a discussion about total free market vs. total government control. There is no more free market, there hasn't been one since the inception of Medicare/Medicaid. The people over 65 and the ones below the poverty level are covered under a system of national health care. Period. That is never going to change. Period. I don't care if you don't like it. I don't want the sun to rise in the east and set int the west, but that's reality. You MUST acknowledge that the system is already socialized for large segments of the population. Next, you need to come to grips with the fact the voters will not give up pre existing conditions or the premium subsides. That part of the ACA just expanded the socialism. They won! It sucks, but they won. They are up by 42 points with 1:15 left in the game. How are you going to come back now? You don't like socialism, neither do I. I difference between us is you steadfastly refuse to see this battle is lost and there is no way back to 1965. It is as if you are Native American, you can bitch all you want about how the White man stole your land, killed the buffalo and phouced up the world. Right or wrong, the White men ain't getting on boats to go back to Europe. Mexicans ain't all going home, the buffalo ain't coming back, and your ass ain't getting off the reservation.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
Hey...don't let such a great discussion about how wonderful socialism is end here. Tell us some more about how great it will be...
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
Tff. It's all yours. I just have to live with it. Hope you're proud. You voted for it.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,663
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,663 |
Well played, Obama. Your opposition is now begging for exactly what you wanted from the start.
Broncos are officially the worst team in the nation this year.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,368 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,368 Likes: 2 |
Hey...don't let such a great discussion about how wonderful socialism is end here. Tell us some more about how great it will be... Who said it will be great? Not me. It WILL be. How are you going to stop it. This facet is here, now. I want your plan to reverse it. I want your plan to take us back to 1965 before government entered the healthcare business. While you're at it, take us back to 1932 before the Social Security Act. That is Socialism at its finest. Take from those who have and give it to those who haven't. Classic Marxism. FDR started it here in 1933!! I don't like it either. Can't pay a bunch of people not to work. It comes to an end where workers can't support the numbers. See, we agree on that, right? Now tell me a realistic way out from under this fiasco... You can't because you don't have the votes and can't get them now.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
Well played, Obama. Your opposition is now begging for exactly what you wanted from the start. That is an astute observation. Stupid abounds.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,426
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,426 |
His "point" is socialism, like about half of these so-called "conservatives" here at the 'fire want. It's a natural course for stupid people to take. Funny how high you consider your own intellect. Point taken. Maybe socialism will work better this time. Good luck. FYI When someone like Dutch makes a post, you pay attention. When you make a post, 99% of the time it's got butthurt written all over it.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
Hey...don't let such a great discussion about how wonderful socialism is end here. Tell us some more about how great it will be... Who said it will be great? Not me. It WILL be. How are you going to stop it. This facet is here, now. I want your plan to reverse it. I want your plan to take us back to 1965 before government entered the healthcare business. While you're at it, take us back to 1932 before the Social Security Act. That is Socialism at its finest. Take from those who have and give it to those who haven't. Classic Marxism. FDR started it here in 1933!! I don't like it either. Can't pay a bunch of people not to work. It comes to an end where workers can't support the numbers. See, we agree on that, right? Now tell me a realistic way out from under this fiasco... You can't because you don't have the votes and can't get them now. Who am I to stand in front of progress? Get after it. I'll just continue to elect guys that that you call "right wing radicals" and "conservative obstructionists". It's all I can do, other than talk bullshit on a public forum...
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
His "point" is socialism, like about half of these so-called "conservatives" here at the 'fire want. It's a natural course for stupid people to take. Funny how high you consider your own intellect. Funny that a guy that couldn't get laid in a monkey whorehouse with a bag of bananas finds a socialist on line and loves all the free sheit ideas.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,368 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,368 Likes: 2 |
Tff. It's all yours. I just have to live with it. Hope you're proud. You voted for it. I was a little too young to vote for LBJ in 1964. Seems the voting age was 21, and I was considerable younger. Yes, LBJ not Obama doomed us to this. It is Medicare and all the Boomers feeding off of it that mortally wounded the Healthcare system. The ACA was just bad medicine that is making the system terminal, instead of well. Yes, before the Boomers in their extraordinary numbers began swelling the ranks of Medicare recipients, the old system functioned, barely, but if functioned. In the last decade, cost shifting from the money loser that every Medicare procedure is to the private patients has accelerated costs and driven up rates. Couple that with Greatest Generation and the Boomers living longer through medicine, and you have a chitt load of people sucking money out of the system. I'm still waiting for your realistic solution. No more "socialism sux". Time for some realistic solutions. Here's your chance to win me over.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
Why would I want to "win you over"? It's a little too late for that. You voted for it. Congratulations.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,990
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,990 |
To a degree, insuring for pre-existing at the same rate or even less than those without, is a form of welfare, if one takes into account treatment noncompliance in those with some diseases. Diabetes, for instance, gets pretty expensive over time, if the person is totally noncompliant with treatment, and doesn't make lifestyle changes. If he had to pay out of pocket for all the sequelae of not following diabetes treatment, he might become more motivated to take better care of himself. I know, its probably heresy.
But it makes sense to live the consequences of one's behavior. Being dropped by an insurer for not following treatment for a chronic disease, would then make too much sense. Since my point is that I think it should at least be in the conversation that we go full-retard on either free-market based or single payer, I see lots of merit there. And as a person who eats very well, avoids sugar, exercises a lot, drinks in moderation (usually), and so on I'm also fully on board with the notion of one's choices having consequences, namely because I feel that the crappy choices many Americans are making are a big reason we are in this mess to begin with, and are costing me money, and are GOING TO bankrupt this country in the coming decades as their lifestyle choices come home to roost. And that in turn is gonna screw up my old fartitude....... I think we are all grumpy old farts here, right? Old being over 50? Guys and gals... the kids aren't what we were. Nor are the 20-somethings. Maybe it even extends into the 30-somethings. They've gone to shït. Sugar has destroyed America. There's not a chance in hell that these people will be willing, or able, to face the consequences of their actions. And their vote counts as much as any of ours.  Sadly, I agree. And as Hatari has mentioned in essence, what people have gotten from years of medical social welfare programs, won't be given up, at least Easily IMHO. And people have come to expect it. The problem of noncompliance in pre-existing conditions has been the headache of my nursing practice. No matter how educated some folks are, if their insurance covers the majority of their chronic problems, they don't care if their condition gets worse, as long as they got a pill for it. We already have reached a point where our government can't possibly continue this facade of Social welfare. The next 4 years may be "Katy bar the door", as all goes to crap economically and truth becomes obvious for even the blind. We're already looking down the pike of the next housing bubble, as VA benefits allow for 100% mortgages and Federal grants for down payments. And then, expect another crash coming.
Last edited by Wyogal; 05/08/17.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,368 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,368 Likes: 2 |
Why would I want to "win you over"? It's a little too late for that. You voted for it. Congratulations.
If you have a solution, a REAL solution, I'm open to hear it. Why should you? We want to hear it. So far, all you've done is bitch. I've thought about, and stuck my neck out on the subject and have shown logical reasons for my conclusions and why I consider the battle lost. All I've read from you is that "socialism sux and I won't accept it". Great, that does nothing to improve the situation. I'm asking you and/or anyone else to show me a practical and realistic path to reverse this now. I wanted ACA repealed. Phouc replace I want it gone. I now see that Congress will never repeal the measures that matter. If they won't, then this is a lost battle. "I" voted for this? My ass I voted for it. I voted for Tom Price who actually has a plan to repeal and replace ACA. It went DOA in the House. I voted for Trump who made R & R one of the first priorities. What happened there? The House wouldn't do it. Come on!
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,990
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,990 |
Why would I want to "win you over"? It's a little too late for that. You voted for it. Congratulations.
Who voted for it?
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
His "point" is socialism, like about half of these so-called "conservatives" here at the 'fire want. It's a natural course for stupid people to take. Funny how high you consider your own intellect. Funny that a guy that couldn't get laid in a monkey whorehouse with a bag of bananas finds a socialist on line and loves all the free sheit ideas. TFF, I may have to steal that line. Oh, and properly applied I must say 
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
Bottom line...I pay $12,000 per year for insurance and my wife is "insured"through her employer for about the same amount. That means we pay approximately $24,000 per year for INSURANCE. Even though we aren't young, we seldom go to a doctor. Both of our deductibles are about $8000 (BCBS). I made $36,000 this year...total. Do the math. Welfare recipients and illegal aliens are far better off than I am.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,426
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,426 |
[quote=ltppowell]His "point" is socialism, like about half of these so-called "conservatives" here at the 'fire want. It's a natural course for stupid people to take. Funny how high you consider your own intellect. Funny that a guy that couldn't get laid in a monkey whorehouse with a bag of bananas finds a socialist on line and loves all the free sheit ideas. [/quote I'd never go in a whorehouse. If I had done that crap, I'd never have been able to marry an amazing woman. And yes, my wife and kids are pretty awesome. People actually go out of their way to tell me what good kids I have. Living a very blessed live doing exactly what I want to do, where I want to do it.
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