Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Forget Repeal and Replace. Time for National Healthcare

Now that I have shocked many of you, seeing that Hatari would say such thing knowing full well that Healthcare will suffer. I've got news for you, the horse is out of the barn and he ain't coming home.

We have had National Healthcare since 1966. It is called Medicare. Any one who uses it knows it is a mess, and any provider that takes it knows it is a mess that is a money loser.

If anybody here thinks we have had independent healthcare since 1966, you are fooling yourself. It is precisely the fact that Medicare is government run, payed for by a universal tax, and reimburses only 80% of what it costs to provide the service is why the system has slowly bloated and is failing.

I repeat, we have had National Healthcare since 1966, it only covered 65 years +.

Now that Obamacare has mandated coverage of pre existing conditions and has subsidized premiums, we will never go back to what we had in 2009, NEVER. Politicians will NEVER DO DO IT. Voters have gotten used to it and you can NEVER take it away.

We are screwed. We lost. Face it, we lost. We lost just like Hillary Clinton lost. She and her minions can cry all they want, but HRC is not President and never will be. We can bitch and moan and cry all we want, but Nancy Pelosi with her "we need to pass it to find out what's in it" screwed us. They won. The GOP rolled over and played dead thinking that the SCOTUS would save their asses. Justice Roberts told them to "GFY" because it was not his duty to clean up their messes, and he refused to do it anymore. I don't blame him, I don't. Medicare was going to break the system sooner or later. Too damn many Babyboomers living well past age 70 and will need incalculable care before end of life. That alone will kill the healthcare system because the it will become an ever increasing part of the budget.

Social Security and Medicare right now is nearly 50% of all of the budget. That is NOT going to change. Trump ain't changing it, neither is Paul Ryan. The Democrats poisoned the system and there is not antidote.

Is there any strategy to make the best out of a crappy situation? Yes, I think there is.

- First, the GOP might as will just go whole hog and say "We're for National Healthcare". Yep I said it. Make it a bare bones deal, put in another payroll tax and go with it. I suggest they look at some country with more than 50 million people that has a history of a system that works and copy it. THIS WILL SCREW THE DEMOCRATS FOR THE NEXT 40 YEARS!

If the GOP doesn't do it, The Dems will within 12 years.

- Next, allow the market to go back and make a separate, independent market based system. You want to go to a private MD, or a Private hospital that does not participate in National Healthcare? You can buy an insurance policy to cover that or pay cash for doctor's visits. I promise that a market based insurance covers private system would see premiums fall by 50%! America would still have the best healthcare in the World, we would still have innovation, you just won't get the best for "free" .


I am sorry to break the news to you. DocRocket, DocEncore and others might agree or they might have virgin birth when they read this. It is time to grasp the fact that the old system is dead, and there will me no resurrection. Our only hope to have a choice is to run 2 parallel systems, one gov't and one private. If you want to pay to play, you get the best. If you want to use that=e taxpayer funded, fine, but you get what you get. You don't get a Lexus for the payments of a Prius.

The sooner we accept this, the faster we can get on with it. I say steal the Democrats thunder, make the system a copy of one that works the best, and run with it. There is no going back. Just don't let the Dems do it because if they do, they will regain power for the next 60 years, and you know what that means. Sharia is coming!

That pretty well sums up my thoughts on it. IMO opinion the healthcare debacle will put the GOP out of majority control in 2018.

No, the premiums would NOT fall - because the National HC system would ensure that the system remains bloated. Just like private schools aren't cheaper than public, because public sets the minimum cost standard.

I am in favor of going to national health care. Just because so many people are on it anyways. Medicaid is huge. Native Americans get it taken care of, as well as vets and the elderly. I don't see our present system as fixable.

So basically you have the working class getting killed right now.

I am in favor of big consumptive taxes to pay for it. Processed and sugary foods should have the highest tax.

I agree with you. I'd prefer a truly free market system but your assessment is accurate.

Australia has the 2 parallel systems and it's better than what we have.

I have said all along, the problem is NOT national, single payer health care, the problem is how bad our government runs things.
We (America) needs to design an efficient system that;
Doesn’t waste 10 %+ paying billing specialist, book keepers, lawyers, insurance Co.s and other “non health care” people.
Doesn’t waste billions on healthcare for non citizens.
Make’s sure EVERYBODY has some skin in the game, pays something. That means the poor.
Start taxing welfare, food stamps, housing assistance, every form of free government money to help pay for their “free” healthcare.

Absolutely!

hatari,

your proposal seems to address the "elephant in the room"............

the working poor, (white, black, "Hispanic", Asian, etc) those who can't afford the rising health care costs we've been seeing for the past decade or two.

These are the folks who want to keep "Obamacare". They can get somewhat affordable insurance. Maybe not high end, but at least they have something. Prior that, they just didn't go to the doctor unless they were dying.

I have a brother in that situation, worked hard all his life, lives in a high cost of living area, getting older......he story of many a good citizen. Universal health care would help him for sure.

For those that can afford it, supplemental system if they don't like the universal.

As you suggest, politically, a smart move. A party would pick up many of those voters on the fence.....vote for some sort of health care they can afford.......or vote for their "conservative" values. Probably pick up a bunch of those pro-labor outdoorsman (union member type) who are losing the battles for employer paid insurance policies they had in the past.

Geno

Yep, and get all the moochers(Europe, Japan, S. Korea, etc.) to pay for their own militaries.

The experiment in liberty called America has been dying a slow death for a long time. It may have just reached the point where a death certificate might be appropriate and then we can move on from here making the best of its replacement that can be made of it. Of course, this was the purpose of Obamacare to start with, i.e., to crash and then be replaced by single-payer national healthcare. So this is a victory for the left.

that's why the repubs have been referred to quite derisively for a spell as Demo Lite. because they are.

medicare does have an option for the proposed system, at least sort of. it's usually called Medicare Advantage or some such. individuals can buy from numerous insurance providers various forms and amounts of add-on health insurance. price and benefits vary. there'll still need to be plenty of profit for the providers or they'll leave the field, and who can blame them.

if health care is a god given right, and more and more people are telling us that from the rooftops, then that means it'll get rationed. at least i think that's what it will mean.

If your plan is going to cover THAT...I think you may have gone just a bit too far.

I agree. Consumptive taxes on things the poor buy in mass would be the best way to tax the poor, IMO. I would also be in favor of a mandatory $35 per visit too, for everybody(including current medicaid recipients), paid up front. You'd be amazed how much that would cut down on needless visits.

By the way, national healthcare and open borders do not mix. Immigration, both legal and illegal, from third world countries would have to stop in its tracks if we were to have nationalized healthcare, or the entire system would soon crash. If they're not willing to do this, there's no way in hell even the most intelligently planned national healthcare system could do anything but crash the nation's economy. If they pursue this, it should be presented as an either or, i.e., either we have nationalized healthcare, or we have open borders, but we cannot have both. If we have it, immigration has to be nearly eliminated, except for people who are already well to do.

The fact the Repub system doesn't even talk about Free Market, tells me we've lost this war. Pre-existing conditions IS NOT INSURANCE, it's WELFARE, PERIOD. When Roberts screwed us with his decision, we lost . Americans regard health care now as a RIGHT and eight years of Obamacare, pretty much hooked them. Just another check in the block for a Seven Days in May scenario for me.

As long as there skyrocketing costs, we might as well have national universal coverage , because the costs have gotten so unreasonable that average people and most insurance companies can't stand for long with the extreme ,ignorant bills presented by dr's and hospitals , they are totally absurd, no wonder insurance is so high!! STUPID

well yeah. but it's due in large part to the "hybrid" system we are running. market place conditions still exist. the doc, big pharma, and the hospitals are still billing individuals and/or the insurance companies.

at the same time big gov. is setting rules, standards, and regulations that are mandated and have to be followed. no wonder the lawyers are getting rich.

Hatari nailed it.

The problem in implementing any change is the Ins. Co. Lobby.

Nobody thinks a Law Degree should be a passport to wealth. Lawyers are expected to hustle for work if they want to enjoy the good life, but it seems that we can't allow Doctors to be poor, no matter how worthless they are.

A Nat'l Heathcare plan coupled with Doctors organizing their own "group plans" would get rid of the Ins. Co. Parasites altogether and offer folks a real choice.

A separate grouping for catastrophic illnesses, funded by a one percent surcharge in Medicare premiums on everyone would make it much easier to design a plan for routine healthcare.

we lost the battle when the Roberts Court decided that the ACA, or The Affordable Health Care for America Act (or HR 3962), was just a tax. The House voted to repeal a lot of it in the current bill, KNOWING full well, that it would die in the Senate. No one in Washington is on our side. We life in a tyranny now. Despotic rule, with no chance to influence what happens.

Yessir, and just look at this thread full of "conservatives". Socialism has been creeping in America since it's inception, but with this quantum leap...it's official. And over.